Bullet trains for India with Indo-China Strategic Economic Dialogue

[Abhishek_]

I agree but in order for studies to conducted, the govt has to approve and fund them initially right? If that is the case, then this again comes down to an ineffective govt run by illerate, no vision, no common sense, good for nothing politicans.

remember this when you vote next time. it is not a bad idea to contact your local govt. representatives as well. you'd be surprised how responsive some of them are, especially if they are as educated as you claim them to be.

 

[timetravel]

i'm only supporting the studies. if the results advise against it, i would be the first one to agree.

yes bro I support you on that. there is no harm in carrying out the studies. Infact not carrying out the studies before investing money even in 200 Km/hr would be a disservice to nation. who knows maybe 300 KM/hr is not that expensive. Overall I would support the 300 Km/hr if it is 1.1 to 1.3 times more expensive then 200 KM.hr. But if the cost factor is even 2+ times more I would want the 200 KM/hr trains for India as it is amply clear that there is NO MAJOR TIME saving with 300 Km/hr trains over 200 Km/hr trains.

 

[Abhishek_]

yes bro I support you on that. there is no harm in carrying out the studies. Infact not carrying out the studies before investing money even in 200 Km/hr would be a disservice to nation. who knows maybe 300 KM/hr is not that expensive. Overall I would support the 300 Km/hr if it is 1.1 to 1.3 times more expensive then 200 KM.hr. But if the cost factor is even 2+ times more I would want the 200 KM/hr trains for India as it is amply clear that there is NO MAJOR TIME saving with 300 Km/hr trains over 200 Km/hr trains.

no issues there, we must do a cost benefit analysis before arriving at a decision (or even an opinion).

 

[trinity]

you may want to contact the ministry of environmental preservation. no use trumpeting your horn in front of Indian railways.
i'm surprised having to explain this.

Its all connected. You have to look at the big picture. YOu pointed out the feasibility studies being conducted right for IR? So that means the Centre released any funds to conduct such studies for problems I mentioned right? You can point out all the facts in the world. You can quote any Western reports. You can show proof but the ball will never move unless the Centre takes a decision. So, what is the point of jumping to one ministry or the other when neither will listen?

 

[Abhishek_]

Its all connected. You have to look at the big picture. YOu pointed out the feasibility studies being conducted right for IR? So that means the Centre released any funds to conduct such studies for problems I mentioned right? You can point out all the facts in the world. You can quote any Western reports. You can show proof but the ball will never move unless the Centre takes a decision. So, what is the point of jumping to one ministry or the other when neither will listen?

such studies are conducted by IR on it's own budget. there is no special funding provided by the center. the center is there to provide enabling laws only, it is up to the ministries to come up with feasible projects, hence the need for feasibility studies.
case in point, even the financing structure for Delhi metro was formulated by DMRC, NOT the center.

 

[trinity]

remember this when you vote next time. it is not a bad idea to contact your local govt. representatives as well. you'd be surprised how responsive some of them are, especially if they are as educated as you claim them to be.

Now remember this next time, a great functioning democracy is only as good as the quality of its ppl. By pouring resources into education, you would create a voter who will be able to tell the difference between BS and the facts. What has happened is that we have created a base of ppl who vote for TV;s and don;t even understand the value of their vote.

 

[Sashan]

Couple of benefits with HSR - With the Indian middleclass set to increase by atleast 200 million in the next decade, it is either air travel or HSR which needs to see a growth as travel is only going to see an increase by this middleclass population. Air travel involves petroleum which India imports whereas HSR involves electricity(where coal is predominant in manufacturing of electricity along with the nuclear plants coming up can be self sufficient) - Take your pick where you want to spend the money - petroleum vs electricity.

Second benefit - India needs infrastructure in cities for 110 million people in the next 10 years as 110 million will be moving from villages to cities as per couple of GOI studies. India does not have the capability in major cities. So the best way is spread the population across - For example, Beijing-Tianjin is 141 kms - now the distance can be travelled in 30 mins due to HSR and people travel from Tianjin to Beijing. Mumbai-Pune is 240 kms - if that distance can be travelled in 1 hour - people will not move towards Mumbai. Likewise the situation can be replicated in Delhi. Bangalore, Chennai as well.

 

[Abhishek_]

Now remember this next time, a great functioning democracy is only as good as the quality of its ppl. By pouring resources into education, you would create a voter who will be able to tell the difference between BS and the facts. What has happened is that we have created a base of ppl who vote for TV;s and don;t even understand the value of their vote.

education is a state subject as well, this is why kerela has zoomed past other indian states in literacy. why blame the center for your dissatisfaction in other local authorities?

 

[trinity]

education is a state subject as well, this is why kerela has zoomed past other indian states in literacy. why blame the center?

I agree to a point. But this is where the problem lies for India. An educated voter is ideal for democracy to flourish. Other states are slacking and this will have a negative effect on us as a whole. The Centre has to be be firm to resolve this or certain states will continue this nonsense in order for their party to stay in power.

 

[peep]

yes bro I support you on that. there is no harm in carrying out the studies. Infact not carrying out the studies before investing money even in 200 Km/hr would be a disservice to nation. who knows maybe 300 KM/hr is not that expensive. Overall I would support the 300 Km/hr if it is 1.1 to 1.3 times more expensive then 200 KM.hr. But if the cost factor is even 2+ times more I would want the 200 KM/hr trains for India as it is amply clear that there is NO MAJOR TIME saving with 300 Km/hr trains over 200 Km/hr trains.

No offence but you are a bad statistician..

The whole logic of deciding the feasibility on the no of Hours saved for only a JAMMU-Trivandrum trip is totally hard to make sense.

You have to give proper weightage to traffic between two different points and then calculate the percentage of hours saved. And then maybe caclutate the weighted mean of these hours saved and then decide whether it is feasible..

In simple words, lets say it only makes 5 hours saving for a 50 hour journey from Jammu to Trivandrum and it saves around 4 hours for a 20 hour journey from Mumbai to Delhi, ( coz of less no of stops )

Hence ratios are .1 and .2

Also consider that 80% traffic is in mumbai corridor and rest travel in jammu corridor.

whats the saving done ? (.1x20 + .2x80) /100 = .18 percentage hours.

So, while you see only jammu corridor to be making not all that profit, even lets say barely breaking even while mumbai corridor will be highly productive notwithstanding the tremendous mobility option which would be added in addition to flights..

Hope it clears everything !!

 

[winto]

india!india!india!india!india!

 

[Abhishek_]

I agree to a point. But this is where the problem lies for India. An educated voter is ideal for democracy to flourish. Other states are slacking and this will have a negative effect on us as a whole. The Centre has to be be firm to resolve this or certain states will continue this nonsense in order for their party to stay in power.

it is not the center's responsibility though. it is up to the voters of the respective states. your thoughts are appreciated, but it must be left for the state voters to decide their own fate.

Couple of benefits with HSR - With the Indian middleclass set to increase by atleast 200 million in the next decade, it is either air travel or HSR which needs to see a growth as travel is only going to see an increase by this middleclass population. Air travel involves petroleum which India imports whereas HSR involves electricity(where coal is predominant in manufacturing of electricity along with the nuclear plants coming up can be self sufficient) - Take your pick where you want to spend the money - petroleum vs electricity.

Second benefit - India needs infrastructure in cities for 110 million people in the next 10 years as 110 million will be moving from villages to cities as per couple of GOI studies. India does not have the capability in major cities. So the best way is spread the population across - For example, Beijing-Tianjin is 141 kms - now the distance can be travelled in 30 mins due to HSR and people travel from Tianjin to Beijing. Mumbai-Pune is 240 kms - if that distance can be travelled in 1 hour - people will not move towards Mumbai. Likewise the situation can be replicated in Delhi. Bangalore, Chennai as well.

quoted for truth

 

[peep]

And yeah we will have enough modes of travel ... I mean the expense option..

1. Very high end. Booking flights at the last moment/Business class
2. High End. Flights reserved like 2/1 month in advance. Economy class.
3. HSR Medium
4. Normal superfat trains. Low end
5. General Travel. Ultra cheap option.

In a country like india, we have a wide variation in earning capability and each class has sufficient population to make sure that trains don't go empty.

So all the more reason to go for it !!

 

[trinity]

it is not the center's responsibility though. it is up to the voters of the respective states. your thoughts are appreciated, but it must be left for the state voters to decide their own fate.

quoted for truth

Sorry I don;t agree. So you wash your hands clean by pointing out the responsibility is with the voters in their respective states? The crux of the problem is the voter, who votes for a politican who may or may not perform up to task. How do you make a voter better? Educate them. The problem in America is the uneducated voter who is more interested in self entitlements than for the overall good of the country. The same problem can be seen in India. Unless the Centre takes a stand, then India will grow at a slow pace and with severe inequalities. The question of whether it will correct itself will remain to be seen over time but rather than sit and wait and do absoutely nothing, shouldn;t the Centre step in when it see;s major problems developing? Im all for Democracy but india needs to fine tune democracy to its needs and what makes it effective in INDIA. Following a model that worked in the UK which is a fraction of the size of India is not necessarily a great thing. Maybe we should be looking at ways to tweak and make it more effective for INDIA BY INDIANS.


I see problems as opportunities to tackle not run away from. If its not right, then fix it. Don;t allow it to pester. In order for our Democracy to compete with China we all need to make it effective and reactive asap.

 

[timetravel]

No offence but you are a bad statistician..

The whole logic of deciding the feasibility on the no of Hours saved for only a JAMMU-Trivandrum trip is totally hard to make sense.

You have to give proper weightage to traffic between two different points and then calculate the percentage of hours saved. And then maybe caclutate the weighted mean of these hours saved and then decide whether it is feasible..

In simple words, lets say it only makes 5 hours saving for a 50 hour journey from Jammu to Trivandrum and it saves around 4 hours for a 20 hour journey from Mumbai to Delhi, ( coz of less no of stops )

Hence ratios are .1 and .2

Also consider that 80% traffic is in mumbai corridor and rest travel in jammu corridor.

whats the saving done ? (.1x20 + .2x80) /100 = .18 percentage hours.

So, while you see only jammu corridor to be making not all that profit, even lets say barely breaking even while mumbai corridor will be highly productive notwithstanding the tremendous mobility option which would be added in addition to flights..

Hope it clears everything !!

bro

take any two points in India (I took Kashmir and Kerela as you cannot save more time then that)

now find out all the stops and the time train stops on those stops. Add this time up say its X.

now direct travel time for 200 km/hr is a and for 300 km/hr train is b (for the time train does not stops).

total for 200 km/hr train = a + x
total for 300 km/hr train = b + x

difference = (a +x)- (b+x) = a-b which cannot be more then 5 hours even if you go from Kashmir to Kerala (3000 Kms Journey Max possible).

Note:

when you say 4 hours will be saved from mumbai to delhi you are comparing 300 KM/hr train with present trains of 100 km/hr speed train. this comparison is invalid.

I want you to compare the time saving between 200 Km/hr train and 300 Km/hr train from Delhi to Bombay. if this is a journey of 1000 Kms. Then the time difference couldn't be more then 1.8 hours between 300 Km/hr and 200 Km/hr train. And that is why I am saying 300 Km/hr trains have no major time saving benefits. the time saving is negligible between 200 km/hr and 300 km/hr trains.

We do not such large distances as 10000 kms to travel for any appreciable time saving between 200 and 300 km/hr trains.

Only If the HSR would travel at 500+ Km/hr, only then it would make for some appreciable time saving benefit over 200 Km/hr trains.

for any 2 Particular Points in India:

500 Km/hr trains - 1000 Km journey - 2 hours ( + x hours for stops)
200 km/hr trains - 1000 kms journey - 5 hours (+ x hours for stops)

you save 3 hours.

500 Km/hr trains - 3000 (max) Kms Journey - 6 hours ( + x hours for stops)
200 km/hr trains - 3000 (max) Kms journey - 15 hours ( + x hours for stops)

you save 9 hours (max).