BRICS to establish liberal visa regime

[Shotgunner51]

Pakistan has zero legitimate claim to join the BRICS grouping other than "because India is in it". BRICS, at the time, was a term coined to describe the world's most promising emerging markets(not necessarily the case anymore but that is not relevant). By no measure is Pakistan in a position to claim it is such an economic powerhouse of the future.

No one is going to allow Pakistan into BRICS, such a suggestion would be laughed out of the room and even China won't allow it. With Pakistan in BRICS all you would see is yet another multilateral organisation ruined/suppered by Pakistan's antagonistic policy towards India.

India is elevating itself above this petty nonsense and pursuing economic development- change your approach and you can join India but don't demand parity when you have no legitimate right to do so. There are dozens of more worthy candidates for a BRICS+1 inclusion than Pakistan.

As you said, BRICS just a term coined by an investment banker, there is no strong tie unifying the 5 of them. Economically speaking all 5 are very different in nature, and China is far bigger than the other 4 combined in size, industrialization, global trade clout and financial capabilities. What drives co-operation is business pragmatism, e.g. NDB, but not much else. In fact when you mentioned Pakistan's antagonistic policy towards India, how does it compare to India's policy towards China? Leave politics for a moment, be pragmatic.

There is nothing to laugh at. On a per capita basis Pakistan and India are in the same bracket, and its total economic size is in South Africa's league. There is no reason to exclude Pakistan out from any pragmatic business deal if there is any, given its location and close economic tie with the dominant economy of BRICS.

 

[Abingdonboy]

As you said, BRICS just a term coined by an investment banker, there is no strong tie unifying the 5 of them. Economically speaking all 5 are very different in nature, and China is far bigger than the other 4 combined in size, industrialization, global trade clout and financial capabilities. What drives co-operation is business pragmatism, e.g. NDB, but not much else. In fact when you mentioned Pakistan's antagonistic policy towards India, how does it compare to India's policy towards China? Leave politics for a moment, be pragmatic.

There is nothing to laugh at. On a per capita basis Pakistan and India are in the same bracket, and its total economic size is in South Africa's league. There is no reason to exclude Pakistan out from any pragmatic business deal if there is any, given its location and close economic tie with the dominant economy of BRICS.

Well if you start diluting the criteria like this then any country can be allowed to join and the entire purpose of BRICS becomes undermined (if it hasn't already thanks to 3/5 of the economies in the grouping stagnating/recessing). When the BRICS agreements are still in nascent stages themselves it is no time to start arbitrarily letting every one and their dog into the fold.

+ I still fail to understand how Pakistan is eligible for this group other than it is your poodle (you have said as much yourself). What good would it do the other members? Just like SAARC, Pakistan would kill the BRICS organisation before it even became functional.


BRICS was not based on current realties but the potential shown by the aforementioned economies, you can disparage India as you like but its trajectory is to close the gap to China at some point- Pakistan is projected to remain an economic irrelevance.

 

[Shotgunner51]

Well if you start diluting the criteria like this then any country can be allowed to join and the entire purpose of BRICS becomes undermined (if it hasn't already thanks to 3/5 of the economies in the grouping stagnating/recessing). When the BRICS agreements are still in nascent stages themselves it is no time to start arbitrarily letting every one and their dog into the fold.

+ I still fail to understand how Pakistan is eligible for this group other than it is your poodle (you have said as much yourself). What good would it do the other members? Just like SAARC, Pakistan would kill the BRICS organisation before it even became functional.

BRICS was not based on current realties but the potential shown by the aforementioned economies, you can disparage India as you like but its trajectory is to close the gap to China at some point- Pakistan is projected to remain an economic irrelevance.

I suggest you use more diplomatic, if not friendly, language in describing Pakistan, it's a sovereign country.

As I said, throw politics out of the window for a moment when talking about business deal. When you bring in Pakistan's antagonistic policy towards India, why don't you also mention India's policy towards China? Whatever it is, it doesn't even matter, business is business.

BRICS will remain a loose business conference of some bigger & "growing" (irony is that it's not the case in reality) non-western economies (or not in any bloc yet), that's the nature, not economic union, let alone political union.

Some pragmatic results can happen, like NDB, or a visa scheme, not bad. Pakistan should be included in any possible deal, on a per capita basis Pakistan and India are in the same bracket, and its total economic size is in South Africa's league. Actually Pakistan, Argentina, Mexico, Nigeria, Belarus, etc., can join.

 

[Abingdonboy]

As I said, throw politics out of the window for a moment when talking about business deal. When you bring in Pakistan's antagonistic policy towards India, why don't you also mention India's policy towards China? Whatever it is, it doesn't even matter, business is business.

Business is business and politics should be left to one side- I absolutely agree. HOWEVER Pakistan is unable to do so when it comes to India. Even though India and China have sizeable differences look at the vast amount of trade they do and compare it to India and Pakistan's pathetic trading volume.

Pakistan has sabotaged SAARC at every turn in an unveiled attempt to prevent, what they see, as India's economic homogeny in the region. The same fate would meet BRICS should Pakistan be involved. India is a pragmatic nation, Pakistan is an ideologically driven nation and their ideology prevents sense to be seen on matters involving India.

Some pragmatic results can happen, like NDB, or a visa scheme, not bad. Pakistan should be included in any possible deal, on a per capita basis Pakistan and India are in the same bracket, and its total economic size is in South Africa's league. Actually Pakistan, Argentina, Mexico, Nigeria, Belarus, etc., can join.

If you keep diluting the membership criteria in this manner you will quickly end up with yet another defunct multilateral grouping who does little but organise conferences. BRICS should first try and establish a solid foundation before opening up to even less impressive economies. There is a case for bringing in performing economies such as Indonesia and, perhaps, Nigeria but Pakistan does not fit this criteria.

 

[Mr. Khan]

I suggest you use more diplomatic, if not friendly, language in describing Pakistan, it's a sovereign country.

As I said, throw politics out of the window for a moment when talking about business deal. When you bring in Pakistan's antagonistic policy towards India, why don't you also mention India's policy towards China? Whatever it is, it doesn't even matter, business is business.

BRICS will remain a loose business conference of some bigger & "growing" (irony is that it's not the case in reality) non-western economies (or not in any bloc yet), that's the nature, not economic union, let alone political union.

Some pragmatic results can happen, like NDB, or a visa scheme, not bad. Pakistan should be included in any possible deal, on a per capita basis Pakistan and India are in the same bracket, and its total economic size is in South Africa's league. Actually Pakistan, Argentina, Mexico, Nigeria, Belarus, etc., can join.

Except for some PDF fanboys, whole world will laugh at such ridiculous proposals. Do you even hear yourself speaking? You are suggesting to include a failed country to BRICS. Pakistan is not even close to emerging economy for next several decades...Bangladesh has better prospect imho

Business is business and politics should be left to one side- I absolutely agree. HOWEVER Pakistan is unable to do so when it comes to India. Even though India and China have sizeable differences look at the vast amount of trade they do and compare it to India and Pakistan's pathetic trading volume.

Pakistan has sabotaged SAARC at every turn in an unveiled attempt to prevent, what they see, as India's economic homogeny in the region. The same fate would meet BRICS should Pakistan be involved. India is a pragmatic nation, Pakistan is an ideologically driven nation and their ideology prevents sense to be seen on matters involving India.




If you keep diluting the membership criteria in this manner you will quickly end up with yet another defunct multilateral grouping who does little but organise conferences. BRICS should first try and establish a solid foundation before opening up to even less impressive economies. There is a case for bringing in performing economies such as Indonesia and, perhaps, Nigeria but Pakistan does not fit this criteria.

Dude he is speaking for himself. PDF chinese luckily are not policymakers

 

[Shotgunner51]

Except for some PDF fanboys, whole world will laugh at such ridiculous proposals. Do you even hear yourself speaking? You are suggesting to include a failed country to BRICS. Pakistan is not even close to emerging economy for next several decades...Bangladesh has better prospect imho

What's so prestegious about BRICS in the first place? It's just a loose business conference comprised of countries with very different economic size, strength even growth. The only outcome now is NDB, is there anything else? Pakistan is in the leagues of existing NDB members, for sure they can join NDB. The same rationale applies to any future deal, if any so to speak of.

Dude he is speaking for himself. PDF chinese luckily are not policymakers

And you are policymaker? Or you speak for them?


@waz @Horus some banned policymaker show up

 

[Mr. Khan]

What's so prestegious about BRICS in the first place? It's just a loose business conference comprised of countries with very different economic size, strength even growth. The only outcome now is NDB, is there anything else? Pakistan is in the leagues of existing NDB members, for sure they can join NDB. The same rationale applies to any future deal, if any so to speak of.

How can they contribute economically to BRICS? Kindly explain It's no longer just a loose term with its own bank now
I am sure even Chinese government would not want a liberal Visa regime with pakistan because of Xinjiang issue.
You should propose such things to CCP, and wait for the response

And you are policymaker? Or you speak for them?


@waz @Horus some banned policymaker show up

lol, as I said, PDF chinese are different in the sense that Pakistan is seen negatively by common Chinese, recent surveys show that. I don't think that Chinese just like any other country of the world would like liberal visa with Pakistan of all nation. If it were the case, CCP would already have provided visa on arrival. But no such provision for a failed country despite honey coat words by Pakistan leaders for China.

 

[Abingdonboy]

What's so prestegious about BRICS in the first place? It's just a loose business conference comprised of countries with very different economic size, strength even growth. The only outcome now is NDB, is there anything else? Pakistan is in the leagues of existing NDB members, for sure they can join NDB. The same rationale applies to any future deal, if any so to speak of.

You seem to be, intentionally, failing to contextualise the discussion. Pakistan is not just any nation with xyz economic performance data, this is a nation whose entire identity is constructed around opposing India- an entrant in BRICS. To envisage a situation where Pakistan becomes part of BRICS and doesn't IMMEDIATELY politicise the grouping is too unbelievable to even consider.

You may or may not be aware of the amount of petty drama that exists between India and Pakistan in other multilateral arenas such as SAARC, Commonwealth conferences and the UN but the last thing BRICS needs is the drama (and baggage) Pakistan would bring to such a grouping. Within weeks you would have boycott threats unless Kashmir was settled first (this sadly isn't even an exaggeration).

Whilst BRICS is still yet to deliver much of its, hoped for promise, don't bring in destabilising elements into the fold.

 

[Shotgunner51]

How can they contribute economically to BRICS? Kindly explain It's no longer just a loose term with its own bank now

Did you check their size vs South Africa, and per capita against your country?

@waz @Horus we have an honorable policymaker here please welcome

 

[Mr. Khan]

Did you check their size vs South Africa, and per capita against your country?

@waz @Horus we have an honorable policymaker here please welcome

Did you check their per capita with South Africa and size with Indian economy ?

One more thing how can they contribute to BRICS when they are growing by a meager 3 to 4 percent YOY? with the economy just 250 bn, they are slow growing economy. As I said, thank god PDF Chinese are not policy makers
Are you sure you are High IQ Chinese?

 

[Shotgunner51]

lol, as I said, PDF chinese are different in the sense that Pakistan is seen negatively by common Chinese, recent surveys show that. I don't think that Chinese just like any other country of the world would like liberal visa with Pakistan of all nation. If it were the case, CCP would already have provided visa on arrival. But no such provision for a failed country despite honey coat words by Pakistan leaders for China

Visa on arrival? Ok, can you name any country that China provides that to?

 

[Mr. Khan]

Visa on arrival? Ok, can you name any country that China provides that to?

But why not Pakistan? Isn't it special enough that a PDF Chinese is proposing it to be included in BRICS despite it being a fragile country? My point is if even Chinese government treats Pakistan just like rest of the world does in terms of Visa then why a PDF chinese proposing liberal visa for Pakistan among BRICS nation?

 

[Shotgunner51]

Did you check their per capita with South Africa and size with Indian economy ?

One more thing how can they contribute to BRICS when they are growing by a meager 3 to 4 percent YOY? with the economy just 250 bn, they are slow growing economy. As I said, thank god PDF Chinese are not policy makers
Are you sure you are High IQ Chinese?

Well did you check india's per capita with China and size with China?
What india can contribute to BRICS with the lowest per capita income, and loads of foreign debt, and no resources to speak of?
I am sure you are an normal low IQ indian

 

[Mr. Khan]

Well did you check india's per capita with China and size with China?
What india can contribute to BRICS with the lowest per capita income, and loads of foreign debt, and no resources to speak of?

India is the fastest growing major economy, 7th largest nominal terms, 3rd largest in Asia with huge forex reserve,. Thank god you are just a PDF Chinese. Your intelligence amazes me

PDF Chinese proposing relaxed visa for Pakistan. I am not sure how will it be taken by common chinese. Maybe Shotgunner will be welcomed with a slap
China Loves Pakistan … but Most Chinese Don’t | Foreign Policy

 

[Shotgunner51]

But why not Pakistan? Isn't it special enough that a PDF Chinese is proposing it to be included in BRICS despite it being a fragile country? My point is if even Chinese government treats Pakistan just like rest of the world does in terms of Visa then why a PDF chinese proposing liberal visa for Pakistan among BRICS nation?

That's the point, no special visa scheme or is that any? And if any visa scheme applies to rest of BRICS then why not Pakistan?