Breaking: Information Minister Pervaiz Rasheed fired by PM

[Rashid Mahmood]

Hello,

Your post on accountability and sincerity was a spot on.

But when I see common educated privilege man breaking the law and feeling no remorse about it and then going on to blame on whether govt or military shows that we ourselves are deeply insincere to the society we share and live with others.

This requires a cultural shift first and then some structural reforms. Years and years of Malpractices in our institution from the very school we go in to the very job we land in for the rest of our lives, has consolidated this culture

Hi,
The common education man breaks the law, because he knows that he will get away with it, so why bother. This is human nature to go for short cuts, break rules. We don't even follow rules ordered to us by our Creator.

The same common man, when drives on the motorway, follows all rules, or while abroad, will abide by all laws. Just because we know that we will get caught and will be held accountable.

Strict implementation of law and punishments will change our society pretty fast.

 

[salarsikander]

Hi,
The common education man breaks the law, because he knows that he will get away with it, so why bother. This is human nature to go for short cuts, break rules. We don't even follow rules ordered to us by our Creator.

The same common man, when drives on the motorway, follows all rules, or while abroad, will abide by all laws. Just because we know that we will get caught and will be held accountable.

Strict implementation of law and punishments will change our society pretty fast.

Unity, Faith and discipline can go to garbage then.

This is where I wold like to differ with you. If a common educated man breaks the law knowingly then he is no more to be considered as educated but rather as ''Literate''. He can read and write very well but has failed to show the wisdom that we supposed to learn from education that he got. I believe then there is no point of his degree that he/she hold as the they are acting just like an illiterate man. Forceful implementation with repercussions, at best will only result in compliance and not in cooperation that we therefore seek ultimately.

Education is meant to open his mind and teach him some basic etiquettes in how to behave in a society. The fear of law will be there for as long as repercussions exists. Once they are removed there is nothing between the common educated
(literate) man to revert to his old medieval ways. The Education has not taught the common man the discipline that he i supposed to exhibit

 

[Verve]

Action against GEO tv & Jang group likely................ soon........

if about 70% of the independent media outlets say something, I believe in that, vs. 30% others.

Almost majority of the mainstream media globally is controlled in one way or another. There are 6 main media houses in US - and all are controlled without a doubt. There is no independent mainstream media even in the country of your residence.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

Strict implementation of law and punishments will change our society pretty fast.

Of course your right but your ignoring the other aspect. The general population must have certain mindset. The collective genus of a people produces the leadership they have and the system that runs them. In a sense people get what they deserve. Or should I say the failures you see in Pakistan reflective the colective failures of the people of Pakistan.

This can be seen in the Pakistani disapora in UK. Whilst they tend to follow rules more than they do in Pakistan thus proving that a system can furnace change in a people. However on closer inspection there are some patterns that the diaspora displays in UK that are clearly residuals they have carried through their heritage. I have seen Pakistani's in UK turn a street into gridlock because two idiots parked the cars wrongly, started talk with each other etc

Therre are other patterns of behaviour that can be seen that I dom't have time to go into. Therefore changing a people requires more than a systemic change of rules. Rules are only good as the people who enforce them and on those whom the rules are enforced on.

 

[salarsikander]

Of course your right but your ignoring the other aspect. The general population must have certain mindset. The collective genus of a people produces the leadership they have and the system that runs them. In a sense people get what they deserve. Or should I say the failures you see in Pakistan reflective the colective failures of the people of Pakistan.

This can be seen in the Pakistani disapora in UK. Whilst they tend to follow rules more than they do in Pakistan thus proving that a system can furnace change in a people. However on closer inspection there are some patterns that the diaspora displays in UK that are clearly residuals they have carried through their heritage. I have seen Pakistani's in UK turn a street into gridlock because two idiots parked the cars wrongly, started talk with each other etc

Therre are other patterns of behaviour that can be seen that I dom't have time to go into. Therefore changing a people requires more than a systemic change of rules. Rules are only good as the people who enforce them and on those whom the rules are enforced on.

Spot on Captain

 

[Verve]

The Education has not taught the common man the discipline that he i supposed to exhibit

Current education system is created by the Industrialists. They took the Prussian concept that in order to control the society it is the children that need to be molded.

This education system produces humans who at the age of 16 do not even have basic survival skills let alone have an iota of critical thinking ability! This is industry labour force churning system, and that is it!

Pakistan must rewrite the education system.

 

[salarsikander]

Current education system is created by the Industrialists. They took the Prussian concept that in order to control the society it is the children that need to be molded.

This education system produces humans who at the age of 16 do not even have basic survival let alone have an iota of critical thinking! This is industry labour force churning system, and that is it!

Pakistan must rewrite the education system.

I am afraid if what you say is true then how comes we find a common pedestrian in western countries more courteous , more friendly with smiling looking face using few etiquettes such as Hello and Thank you, Something uncommon in our local society. Hell Over people dont even reply to Islamic greeting ! let alone other etiquettes

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Minimum education level for a member of Parliament should be Masters in a specialized faculty.

Sir,
This would have more problems.

Education is not just learning from books but also from experience in life. Problem that most of our young generation face is they are becoming confused of what culture should they follow. The TV channels are showing Indian and western culture where as news channels are just criticizing every thing.

These days both parents are working leaving their children with servants. There are some those who are trained nanny but majority are not. This also contributes in development of a child.

If one would like to have educated person in politics then the minimum should be equivalent to the minimum government provides free of cost. This is METRIC. We have to remember Pakistan is an Islamic Republic hence equal opportunity has to be provided. One can not restrict a Muslim commoner in an Islamic Republic to become the Head of the State on grounds of his academic qualifications. The requirements are very clear.

I do understand why you would like to have masters as the minimum requirement. There is an other way and that is to have all the learned scholars on that subject which needs to be clarified come to a consensus, this would not just include Masters but also Doctors. The present Constitution of Pakistan has a complete procedure for this kind of consensus.

Hi,
The common education man breaks the law, because he knows that he will get away with it, so why bother. This is human nature to go for short cuts, break rules. We don't even follow rules ordered to us by our Creator.

The same common man, when drives on the motorway, follows all rules, or while abroad, will abide by all laws. Just because we know that we will get caught and will be held accountable.

Strict implementation of law and punishments will change our society pretty fast.

Sir,
Currently Pakistan is using a system where two judicial systems are working in parallel. Still the British Law is being used which even Present day UK has long moved on. We are still using 1857 Act as the foundations for most of our legal systems where as the British completely revamped that in 1928.

In Pakistan we are trying to somehow work a compromise between British and Islamic Law. 1973 Constitution laid down a detailed mechanism which would have seen that the changes that were required were made unfortunately these are not yet complete.

People of Pakistan have to decide which System they want to have in the future. They have to choose ONLY ONE. Whichever they choose they have to take it in TOTO with both its Pros and Cons. Cherry picking would lead to the same outcome that Pakistan faces today.

 

[DJ_Viper]

Almost majority of the mainstream media globally is controlled in one way or another. There are 6 main media houses in US - and all are controlled without a doubt. There is no independent mainstream media even in the country of your residence.

Sir, The American history (Western in general) for over a century goes around media based influence. Thank you for understanding my main point. For some reason, I think there is obvious bias on this thread specifically towards some certain individual/s. So even logical comments or questions are answered one sides. But glad to see someone understanding and agreeing with the reality on media. Thanks

Fair enough. I will take your inability to produce a verifiable source for the US govt and the polls which state that PML N will win as a NO. It was just this simple my friend

Alright man, enough. I don't know your background but you are trolling every post like you've ran for the office of some PM. You are just inept to communicate nicely, and there hasn't been any proof from your end either. Just silly comments. Keep your silly lectures to yourself. No one wants to talk to an arrogant person. This is the last time I am responding to you.

There are much nicer people on here to talk to. So go find someone else to waste your time on. Thanks.

 

[salarsikander]

and there hasn't been any proof from your end either

Proof of what exactly ? What Claim did I make that requires a proof ?

 

[DJ_Viper]

Disagree. In UK, one of the oldest democracies about, there is no minimum educational requirement. Fishermen have gone on to become deputy Prime Ministers. .

Sir, in UK, etc, the Deputy Prime Minister is a guy who has "tea" with junior level foreign dignitaries when the PM doesn't want to give them time. He has no real authority of policy creation or implementation responsibility to be frank.

I may not know a lot about Pakistan and associated politics there, and I may be researching for my PhD about Pakistan/ Eastern Politics. But rest assured, I have over 15 years of experience with international politics, law and various other aspects of these things. So I know what I am talking about when its about a Western system.

I agree with Mr. @Rashid Mahmood , education is the key here. Some examples come to mind, the US (99% senators are lawyers from top elite law schools) and India (many PhD's and other high level educations on everyone's resume). So these two examples can give you plenty to know that education and at a higher level does make a difference. The countries where the law-makers (senators, cabinet,etc) aren't well versed in law related, or other higher education, they tend to be behind. Thanks.

 

[Indus Pakistan]

guy who has "tea"

This guy sure had tea as:-

* Secretary of State
* Secretary State Environment, Transport and Regions
* Deputy leader of Labour Party

On the Blair administration assuming office Prescot took over 'very large portfolio', more so than any other minister with transport, environment and regions being under his control. Normally two ministers would run these departments. In trhe Blair government Prescot occupied a very significant position along with Gordon Brown and Mandelsohn. So for you to suggest this guy was just there to serve tea is ridicalous. I dare you to say this to his face. He came from humble background and had tough upbringing. This is what his reaction might have been to your 'tea' suggestion.

and in action

 

[Clutch]

Sir, To be frank with you, you don't get to tell me what I should or shouldn't write. I could say the same thing about you. Stop acting immature and write posts with some real facts. So far, I am seeing verbal issues, no concrete evidence of anything you write, including this post. Respect goes both ways and I was taught at an early age that its "earned" not given by default. If you don't like my style, perhaps don't indulge into conversations with me?

I've discussed various topics with over 40+ members so far. I have to admit, I was very impressed with everyone as they treated me with respect and courtesy. You are the first one who I've had to write a rather confrontational post to. I'd hope we either respect each other or stay away from posts as I don't like disrespect, not disrespecting anyone. Thanks



Sir, thank you very much. This small paragraph speaks oceans for issues that you didn't list yet covered indirectly and thoroughly in a few sentences.

My last question on the subject would be, how do you then create mature institutions and educational standards in a country where family system (whether in politics, business or military occupation) runs generations deep? On conflict of interest, I am totally with you. Thank you for your answers Sir. Much appreciate it.

Pakistan is a hard nut to crack. Most western pundits get it all wrong. Pakistan at its core is a feudal society. Run by a few prominent families. These families have ties with both military and politicians. With many of their extended family members members of both societies.

At the roots all these feudals are in league with each other. On the surface the pit their followers (tribal, blood, ethnic etc.) against each other but end of the day learn to negotiate with each other for the limited resources.

Most western observers get pakistan all wrong... they conclude that pakistan is at the brink of religious extremist takeover. That is so far from the truth it's laughable. These fuedals and most Pakistanis are allergic to the extremist version of Islam as practised in the middle east. It's rather mostly about money and kin ties.

There is a decent article about pakistan Here.. http://www.dawn.com/news/630722

Another thing most non Pakistani observers get wrong about pakistan (including Indians)... is that they view Pakistani pessimism and infighting as a sign of a failed state... this couldn't be further from the truth.

People for over 60years have been debating and shouting the end of Pakistan... instead the communist world fell, the middle east world fell, Europe is falling... but pakistan is still here and growing.

 

[Verve]

I am afraid if what you say is true then how comes we find a common pedestrian in western countries more courteous , more friendly with smiling looking face using few etiquettes such as Hello and Thank you, Something uncommon in our local society. Hell Over people dont even reply to Islamic greeting ! let alone other etiquettes

Try travelling in London then ... I commute in London daily and smiles are rare, very rare. I've worked in Paris as well and French are worse! Most of Europe is the same. New York is no different. The only place I found people to be genuinely friendly was silicon valley. LA was the same as every other place.

In these societies, there are constant reminders to people on how to behave. In the tube and buses, the seats are marked for disabled and pregnant. It is not the education system, it is the sign boards and whatnot in daily life that are constant reminders for people to behave in a certain way. And then there is strict implementation of law and CCTVs watching you everywhere. It is the constant reminder of law and 'you are being watched'. Law is the faith of the atheists.

But saying that, there is one thing different here in the education system which you will not find in most other countries. First 2 years of primary school, they no longer teach the kids anything except their rights and others rights.

Yet, these societies have far more 'on the street' vocal and visible racism. Take away strict implementation of law, and you will see the true face of these societies and it's ugly despite the high literacy rate etc.

Pakistan is a hard nut to crack. Most western pundits get it all wrong.

People for over 60years have been debating and shouting the end of Pakistan... instead the communist world fell, the middle east world fell, Europe is falling... but pakistan is still here and growing.

Amen to that and we will continue as such inshallah

 

[JOEY TRIBIANI]

http://www.siasat.pk/forum/showthre...e-publishing-the-fake-story-Says-Sami-Ibrahim