Book Review : The Indian Doctrine

[Contrarian]

wow i am really learning a lot from this. i didnt know there was so much tensions between india and bangladesh.

No there isnt. There are some tensions, but the worst part is over, the new caretoaker govt is taking good steps to resolve the issues.

The problems are very simple, a land dispute , BD allowing terrorists and camps to operate in its territory, and BDR becomming a rogue organisation which was conducting human trafficking and smuggling, etc.

As of this moment, India has ok relations with Bangladesh, and they are warming fast.

You should hear the views of pro India BD writers as well.

 

[BanglaBhoot]

Opinions financed by RAW do not represent the viewpoint of the vast majority of Bangladeshis. These pro-Indians that malaymishra123 refers to have to use manipulation and thuggery to attain power in Bangladesh as they have no real popular support base here. Bangladesh has many outstanding grievances against India relating to breaking of promises on the issue of the enclaves, dishonoring agreements regarding water sharing and boundary issues, the shooting of unarmed civilians by the cowardly BSF, the smuggling of drugs and arms into Bangladesh and the interference of RAW in our internal politics and instigation of subversive activities. The caretaker government is increasingly being criticized for its pro-Indian stance and is gradually backtracking. malaymishra123 is wrong in his assertion that India and Bangladesh have warm relations as the vast majority of Bangladeshis distrust India and are suspicious of its motives which have been duplicitous to say the least.

 

[Adux]

How does one come up with the data that 160 million bangaldeshi's hate India

 

[BanglaBhoot]

Is it a national trait with Indians to be so sneaky? Where in my comment have I used the word 'hate' and where do you get the figure of 160 million when the actual number is only 143 million according to international data? The distrust and suspicion I mentioned can be inferred from the fact that neither the AL or BNP governments were prepared to give India transit facilities or allow export of gas fearing the publics wrath and the AL suffered massive electoral defeat after signing several treaties with India but were still too scared to renew the so-called friendship treaty with India that expired in 1997.

 

[Adux]

Sneaky Indians ? Nice

 

[Contrarian]

Opinions financed by RAW do not represent the viewpoint of the vast majority of Bangladeshis. These pro-Indians that malaymishra123 refers to have to use manipulation and thuggery to attain power in Bangladesh as they have no real popular support base here.

I see, so only those who are anti India in their views are true Bangladeshi's, and those who support India are financed by RAW. Forget it, its not even worth discussing.

 

[BanglaBhoot]

Frankly I have not seen you discuss a single thing. Your defence of India has been pathetic at best and you use the excuse of not wanting to discuss so you do not have to face the awful truth of Indian machinations of which I have provided numerous examples over the course of the last few days.

 

[Adux]

Munshiji,

We Indians are bad and evil and there is nothing you can do about it.
Thank you. Frankly I dont have the patience to listen to your drivel. So You WIn. Enjoy

 

[Contrarian]

Funny, i would have though CON's lengthy replies to your post would mean a 'discussion' to you. He does have a LOT of patience, something i lack. You Mr Munshi lost a lot of credibility when you said:

Opinions financed by RAW do not represent the viewpoint of the vast majority of Bangladeshis. These pro-Indians that malaymishra123 refers to have to use manipulation and thuggery to attain power in Bangladesh as they have no real popular support base here.

So yes for our sake, You win.

Congratulations on writing your book, we hope your book is a success.
Good luck to you.

Adux, disengage.

 

[Adux]

.

Adux, disengage.

Roger that,
See you at base for coffee

Adu Out...


***** I wake up, I am on my bed, not in a MiG 35 Cockpit. Oh well!! back to sleep

 

[con]

If you had been paying attention to the discussion you would have seen a submission by A.K. Zaman of an article by Kajendra Thapa titled ‘India has been supporting the Nepalese terrorists’ who directly accuses RAW of collusion with RAW. My book ‘The India Doctrine’ has four Nepali writers who implicate RAW with the Maoists. I am sure if you did a Google search on RAW and Maoists you will find many articles on the issue. Your comments are based on a lack of trying and a short attention span.

Let me make it clear.I PEFER NEUTRAL SOURCES.SOURCES WHO DO NOT BELONG TO THE PARTIES IN CONFLICT. IF YOU CANNOT POST IT DONT REFER TO NEPAL SOURCES OR YOUR BOOK. YOU WROTE THE BOOK THE ONUS IS ON YOU TO PROVE. SINCE YOU DONE "ENOUGH" RESEARCH IT SHOULD NOT BE DIFFICULT TO PROVIDE WHAT I ASK FOR.

RAW is prepared to but out any group that is useful to its purpose. The Maoists of Nepal has already disassociated themselves from the wider Maoist struggle in India. CP Gajurel, the Maoist head of international relations, recently informed journalists that the Communist Party of Nepal (Maoists) would continue to have ‘fraternal’ relations with like-minded groups in India but that relations with those parties would not be working relations, “only theoretical relations because we have the same ideology. It will not affect relations between the two states.” Similar comments have been made by Prachanda and other senior Maoists leaders indicating Indian collaboration. In fact, Dipankar Biswas, an Indian writer, has pointed out, “Ultimately, India should prepare itself and the Nepalese people to accept the country as one of its states in a federal setup. Defense, currency, communication, vital transport, federal court and external affairs shall be retained by New Delhi and all other jurisdictions shall be conferred on the state of Nepal.” This is an excellent description of the India Doctrine in practice.

I am not interested in the claims you make.all you have been doing is making claims with nothing to back up. I ask again point me to a neutral source. Since you believe what you say is the fact then there would be people who believe these facts. Show them!

The whole of Nepal was not against the king. In a recent opinion poll two thirds of Nepalis wish to retain the monarchy. India is not out to prove points but do dominate and control.

What poll?Another claim. Soure? If this is the case then the current political would be thrown out for removing the monarchy. Time will tell.

I think most of the world would disagree with this statement. You are completely wrong in this assertion and your lack of support material confirms my view.

You asking me for a support material? interesting. Can I provide with American or Russian source who claim these victories? There are many. I wont do it becoz I dont see any point.
Do a little more research on these topic Mr.Munshi. There are lot of things you need to know about these conflicts.

You seem very proud of LTTE’s successes. It is time you stopped being in denial and admit that India got its *** kicked in Sri Lanka during the IPKF adventure in the 1980’s.

I am not proud what terrorist org like LTTE do. I am proud of what IA has accomp. They were ordered by their political bosses to capture Jaffna. Despite causalities they kept their word,which the Sri Lankan Army dorks are yet to achieve,despite years of fighting and huge resources spend.

Because there is no point in remaining in the Indian Union. Independence would be economically beneficial for Tamil Nadu and they would be able to achieve their cultural aspirations separate from India. I fail to see why any state would want to remain inside India. Tamil Nadu could achieve similar prosperity separate from India as could other states.

So does this logic applies to Balouch in Pakistan,Tibet and Muslim majority region in China, Kurds region for Turkey? I guess no,because they are not as evil as India.

Why is India so keen on a negotiated settlement when the SL armed forces are doing so well on the ground? If India cannot provide an acceptable solution to the SL government then it should keep its nose out.

SLA doing well...right. tell me when they control Jaffna. It has been ages since the fighting started.

Who is suggesting force? It is an Indian tactical and strategic requirement to keep the LTTE alive.

And by keeping LTTE alive make a gun traficking region over northern srilanka and let the Tamil extremist fuel a breakup of TamilNadu? India ain't so stupid as you make it out.

India cannot afford to completely shut itself off from SL affairs so they provide aid for humanitarian efforts. This is what is called soft-power. It is through money that Indian can exert some influence over the SL government but there are now other players in the region who are also dishing out cash as well as arms.

That money was given to arm the SLA when LTTE overran a major SLA base and wiped out 1000 men. As I said all you do is read the headlines and claim as an Indian expert.

Dumping the LTTE leader would provide scope for India to overtly support the LTTE. This conclusion is a natural and logical deduction from B. Raman’s statement. Am I not allowed to draw inferences?

Nothing stops you from deriving conclusion.But then it seems like if some articles are provide which go against what you want to believe you give childish reasons like "Chanakya Stories"...which you probably read from one those articles from Defence Journal by Pakistani sources.

I am not saying that. Read the book and determine for yourselves whether the book has substance.

With due respect,I am yet to get impressed by the author,hence I cant expect much from the book. Can I?

According to the SL there security was infiltrated that is why they did not pick up on the attack quick enough. May be it was RAW that provided the LTTE with the information but that is speculation.

First you claim LTTE bombing was due to India supplying faulty radars
Now you it is speculation,RAW provided info to LTTE
Also you say infiltrated hence did not pick up the attack.

Though you not sure what is reason,but that doesnot stop you from blaming India for the goofup done by the SLAF,which even let the attackers get away without even intercepting them.

An airforce with jet planes was not able to intercept propeller driven planes and it all India's fault.

And this 2d 3d thingi which you posted without knowing the difference,to spice up your reply..let me enlighten you a bit.
3d radars are used for automated tracking to be used for sam batteries,while 2d is not since it does not give a automated values for the 3rd dimension(direction).

What is the point of supplying SLAF with 3d radar when they dont have sam batteries? This report which floats around in Srilanka to find a scapegoat for their goof up is proof de creame for you.having 2d radar does not mean they cannot track a aircraft.

We have provided evidence where is yours?

I am still waiting for yours

Since India has made the allegation of terrorist camps inside Bangladesh borders than the burden of proof lies on India. I do not have to prove whether India has produced satellite images but for you to show me that they have to substantiate your allegations. It is commonly accepted that the burden of proof rests on the accuser not the accused.

Pakistan has been for years denying Dawood was in Pakistan. After US declared him terrorist they gave his address in Pakistan. India does not have to prove anything. Everything will automatically fall in place.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Pak_bid_to_wash_hands_of_Dawood_foiled/articleshow/1912677.cms

Finally an admission. India captured East Pakistan and didn’t want to let go. Please read my previous comments on the subject. Bangladesh is in a more advantageous position that Pakistan because of language and cultural affinities with the Seven Sisters and West Bengal. All Bangladesh has to do is strangle at the Chicken Neck for India to suffocate. Mess with Bangladesh and all your Eastern states will explode.

Another claim!
You believe west bengal will help Bangladesh if India attacks it? Another hyperbolic belief. Suffocating chicken neck? And you think you are the only one to thought about it? PA never thought about it? and still lost?

I ain't impressed by statement like "Mess with Bangladesh and all your Eastern states will explode. ". If nonsense from Bangladesh continues it's time will come.

Why does India want one? India is the only country that Bangladesh can fight a war with as it is surrounded on three sides by that country. Gen. Ikram Seghal made the following astute comment –

“Sovereign Bangladesh presently has seven well trained infantry divisions, two independent infantry brigades and an armour brigade. Given that nearly 90% of its borders are shared with India (only 10% or less with Burma), one may well ask, against whom do the Bangladeshis need this firepower? Whenever a Bangladeshi gun is fired in anger, the bullet will hit an Indian.”

Numbers dont win war. If that was the case China which you admire so much,would not be only giving statement "Taiwan is a renegade provice..blah blah..." over a small island.

Bangladesh which has not enough fought a single war since it's inception is gonna beat a army which has fought 5 wars.
It is Logistics Mr Munshi not hundred of brave men,that win war. Has Bangladesh even have an experience of stretching it's logistics and see how long it can last?
Nothing substantial just bravado claims.

That was an Indian source. In the end India had no choice but to leave otherwise India would have had to face a counter-insurgency and international condemnation.

And enlighten me with the "source details"...

They had no choice. The Indian army looting was so pervasive Sheikh Muibur Rahman would have lost internal support if India did not leave sooner than later.

Again NEUTRAL SOURCE PLEASE... 3 months.. I want to know how much they can loot?

India to Bangladesh.
Things that are not produced in Bangladesh and of course drugs.
I already said that we have no choice otherwise smuggling would increase.

So there you go.. you just blown your claims about "better and cheaper" producing Bangladesh can bring down Indian economy...
Only claims... that's all...

and yes...this one

Although Bangladesh is 25 times smaller than India its economy is only 10 times smaller and has every possibility of closing the gap within the next five years.

Another claim...
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/bg.html#Econ
https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/in.html#Econ

Even If Bangladesh grows at 10%(fastest in the world) and India at 5% at the end of 5 years... Indian ecomony would still be almost 10 times that of Bangladesh. Although you dont like posting sources,I do hence those links contain the numbers... Do the maths yourself.You will come to know some reality!

YES!

And YES you just proved what I have been saying. You take comments from kids and some rhetoric as "undeniable proof" and come to a fairy tale conclusion and write a book. Amazing!

And yes Mr Munshi if you like to reply ,make an effort towards posting NEUTRAL AND RELIABLE sources,else dont bother, as I aint bother replying either.

 

[con]

Funny, i would have though CON's lengthy replies to your post would mean a 'discussion' to you. He does have a LOT of patience, something i lack. You Mr Munshi lost a lot of credibility when you said:


So yes for our sake, You win.

Congratulations on writing your book, we hope your book is a success.
Good luck to you.

Adux, disengage.

Malay,
I just wanted to see how much Mr.Munshi was able to back up the claims he makes in his books and his notion about being an Indian expert.

All I have found out it there are only claims with nothing to back up and they end up authoring a book on India.It might require lot of patience but guess worth it.

 

[BanglaBhoot]

I am supremely glad that Adux and malaymishra123 have conceded defeat but I must admit neither really put up a fight. If this is the best in intellectual acumen that India can produce it is no surprise that India is in such a mess. As for con his rejoinders have become weaker and weaker on each successive reply to me and his inane comments really no longer deserve consideration. I will leave the reader with the following quotes that appear in the book and give you the opportunity to determine whether there is an India Doctrine –

Jawaharlal Nehru

“Thus we arrive at the inevitable and ineluctable conclusion that, whether Pakistan comes or not, a number of important and basic functions of the state must be exercised on an all-India basis if India is to survive as a free state and progress. The alternative is stagnation, decay and disintegration, leading to a loss of political and economic freedom, both for India as a whole and its various separated parts. As has been said by an eminent authority: ‘The inexorable logic of the age presents the country with radically different alternatives: union plus independence or disunion plus dependence.’ … There is grave danger in a possibility of partition and division to begin with. For such an attempt might well scotch the very beginnings of freedom and the formation of a free national state … Indeed, it is difficult to conceive of any free state emerging from such a turmoil, and if something does emerge, it will be a pitiful caricature full of contradictions and insoluble problems.”

The Indira Doctrine –
India has no intention of intervening in the internal conflicts of a South Asian country and it strongly opposes intervention by any country in the internal affairs of any other.
India will not tolerate external intervention in a conflict situation in any South Asian country, if the intervention has any implicit or explicit anti-Indian implication. No South Asian government must therefore ask for external military assistance with an anti-Indian bias from any country.
If a South Asian country genuinely needs external help to deal with a serious internal conflict situation, or with an intolerable threat to a government legitimately established, it should ask help from a number of neighboring countries including India. The exclusion of India from such a contingency will be considered to be an anti-Indian move on the part of the government concerned.

RSS –

So long as Pakistan exists as at present, she will continue to be hostile and aggressive towards Bharat. Pakistan was born in hatred of Bharat. It was carved out artificially by disrupting the natural, national integrity of Bharat. The K.K.M (Kendriya Karyakari Mandal or central working committee) is, therefore, of the firm opinion that peace and normalcy are inconceivable without the establishment of Akhand Bharat.

Henry Kissinger –

The inevitable emergence of Bangladesh - which we postulated – presented India with fierce long-term problems. For Bangladesh was in effect East Bengal. Separated only by religion from India’s most fractious and most separatist state, West Bengal. They shared language, tradition, culture, and above all, a volatile national character. Whether, it turned nationalistic or radical, Bangladesh would overtime accentuate India’s centrifugal tendencies. It might be a precedent for the creation of other Moslem states, carved this time out of India. Once it was independent, its Moslem heritage might eventually lead to a rapprochement with Pakistan. All of this dictated to the unsentimental planners in New Delhi that its birth had to be accompanied by a dramatic demonstration of Indian predominance on the sub-continent … Mrs. Gandhi was going to war not because she was convinced of our failure but because she feared our success [in negotiations]

Ravi Rikhye –

My belief is that India should, at the earliest opportunity, incorporate Pakistan into the Republic, followed by all the territories that composed the India before independence. It is my contention that if India does not expand to fill its natural borders, then the centrifugal tendencies inherent in the situation get the upper hand and the country starts disintegrating inwards. The chaos engulfing us today is no accident: once India was partitioned, then the process of disintegration began and will continue till reversed. The natural boundaries of India encompass the present-day states of India, Pakistan and Bangladesh. Our geo-strategical imperatives requires a subordinate Sri Lanka, Burma, Nepal and Bhutan, and a buffer Tibet and Afghanistan. It demands that the Indian Ocean be just that, an Indian ocean. No matter what the cost, we must start the process of reintegration. The later we put it off, the more the eventual cost.

Because Pakistan is second only to India in terms of wealth and power, the reintegration process must start with that country. Once Pakistan returns to the fold, the combination of the two countries is such that the other states will return at a fraction of the cost and effort. Reintegration can be conducted either peacefully or by war.


---------------------------------------------------------

I hope these few quotes of which there are many more contained in the book would suffice to convince the reader of the credibility of my argument. Mt argument is not based simply on the quotations cited but rests on numerous historical data and recent events and pronouncements from India. I would hope that the reader will not adopt the closed mind approach adopted by my Indian detractors and would provide me a fair hearing.

 

[Contrarian]

Actually, con did not 'accept' defeat. He has still posted and you have not replied.

 

[su-47]

If this is the best in intellectual acumen that India can produce it is no surprise that India is in such a mess.

India is in a mess? Dude, our economy is growing at over 8% a year. we still have many problems , but we r addressing them. what about bangladesh? what r u guys doing to improve your situation? if u call india a mess, i'd like to see what u call your country.

now i dont think india will b a superpower in the foreseeable future, but i do believe that we will be a regional power. and that region includes bangladesh as well, whether u like it or not. i do hope that bangladesh and india can sort out their problems, but if they cant, then it'll be much worse for bangladesh than for india. and if all bangladeshis share your mindset, i do feel sorry for your country.