Book recommendation: Nazi Palestine

[SALMAN F]

Hitler's Jewish Soldiers in the Wehrmacht & SS - YouTube

150 000 Jews in Hitler's Army


WALL STREET AND
THE RISE OF HITLER




I really hate the zionists but the nazis or Al Qaeda as much

Nazis and Al Qaeda are the same blood: brainless fanatics

Just say that to make them angry

 

[Solomon2]

Some things to be noted from these kind of books.
But on the whole the displays are unimpressive and repetitive.

Have you asked yourself what would impress you? Absolutely nothing, right? Why is that? Because years of indoctrination have fixed your emotional outlook.

But your intellect is still there. And your intellect tells you: The Jew is right!

Compare the path I've outlined with al-Hasani's position: mine is for change towards freedom, al-Hasani's is for you to continue to embrace falsehoods and the further growth of bigotry and hatred.

Doing nothing is also a choice, Jungibaaz. Do you really want Pakistan to continue on its present path?

 

[Jungibaaz]

Have you asked yourself what would impress you? Absolutely nothing, right? Why is that? Because years of indoctrination have fixed your emotional outlook.

But your intellect is still there. And your intellect tells you: The Jew is right!

Feisty reply. I like that.

I'll tell you what would impress me, if someone does validly report the Israeli narrative, without skipping out the Palestinian, and the Arab. Without fabricating truths, and often passing off half truths as the truth.

Too many authors like this, their books cherry pick the dates (excuse the pun), the events and perspective as a whole.
But this is the part where you say, well where would the opinion be if there was no bit of bias?

And that's a fair point, but you and I know full well, what goes beyond reasonable bias and ventures into state propaganda. Admittedly, I haven't read this, hence I am not in any position to comment any further, but my intuition based on previous experiences guide me no less.

Compare the path I've outlined with al-Hasani's position: mine is for change towards freedom, al-Hasani's is for you to continue to embrace falsehoods and the further growth of bigotry and hatred.

I am an individual who holds very conflicted views, do not pair me up with people based so loosely on who's side I am on.

Bigotry and hatred? Now, now, do not provoke me, it is not at all reasonable to accuse me of such things.
Please point me out to any post of mine, where I've been guilty of that. I will concede to you.

Also look out for the über tolerant posts of mine too.

Make up your mind, well before you accuse me again.

Doing nothing is also a choice, Jungibaaz. Do you really want Pakistan to contke thainue on its present path?

Absolutely not. Under no circumstances should these things remain and in this case I agree with you on what is to be done in Pakistan, to some extent.

However, you are mixing to completely different situations, there may be a shady common factor, but that doesn't nearly allow you to equate the two situations and claim that by and large all the factors at play are negligibly different.

So, to retort. I reserve my views in the earlier post.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Heil Hitler Heil Heil Heil Heil Heil Heil Heil Heil Heil Heil Heil
Heil to Bosnian waffen ss

Shameful display.

Note to all. Keep your emotions under control and maintain civility at all times, otherwise infractions will follow.

 

[al-Hasani]

"Both sides"? There are no both sides. That implies they are on equal terms. What we have is one actor (Israhell) which has about 80 % of mandatory Palestine. Note that this is only talking about the 1967 borders, it becomes much mroe with settlement expansion in West Bank. With annexation of Area C (very likely to happen) they will even control 60 % of the West Bank.
Israel is the state that controls West Bank through settlements, checkpoints, airspace, water resources etc.

On the other hand we have Palestinians who live in ghetto-like bantustans which is surrounded by walls, are opressed, cant move freely. They basically live in a prison.

So please lets not use the terminology "both sides". Because there is absolutely no symmetry between them.

Both sides as in both sides having the need to reach a deal for peace or a long-standing solution to the conflict. You need two for tango. Not as in that I deem both sides to be equal in the conflict.

I thought that this was a pretty clear narrative given my history here in debates with Jews/Israelis and even in this very own thread?

Although I have to say that there are some small elements within the Palestinian camp that I do not support. For example I would find it difficult to accept unmotivated killings of civilians as a Muslim.

But I am glad that you don't fall for the propaganda of this Solomon2 troll. Just look at his description of me. By some here I am called an very Jewish friendly person and even a Jewish agent (!). I am neither what that American toll says nor what they say obviously. But I know for sure that this Solomon2 is not a man that one can take seriously or even SHOULD.

He is angry because I put his nonsense apart in many past discussions and humiliated him. For that reason he is angry and wants to demonize me while I am the Arab on this board that have had arguably most constructive discussions with ACTUAL Israelis and Jews and not impostors like him.

But let him bark.

He is probably an 40-50 year old right-wing nut (evangelist). Read the description of flamer84 of him. Says it all.

Now,i'm somewhere in the middle about the palestinian issue but when you put a cherry on the cake like solomon sometimes does you're in for a laugh.In the European forum he's basically saying that if you want good to triumph you must become a zionist.

 

[Solomon2]

Feisty reply. I like that.

I'll tell you what would impress me, if someone does validly report the Israeli narrative, without skipping out the Palestinian, and the Arab. Without fabricating truths, and often passing off half truths as the truth.

I guess you'll have to buy the book, then - or at least borrow it.

But this is the part where you say, well where would the opinion be if there was no bit of bias?

The German authors note that it can be hard to find books about Israel and Jews that don't start out with bias, rather than evaluate the facts in context first. They specifically note that too many texts talk about Jews' actions without discussing the larger context of Arab deeds that prompted the Jews' response.

...my intuition based on previous experiences guide me no less.

I suspect your "intuition" is founded upon bad experiences at the hands of fellow Muslims coupled with Jew-hatred inculcated in your culture.

I am an individual who holds very conflicted views, do not pair me up with people based so loosely on who's side I am on. Bigotry and hatred? Now, now, do not provoke me, it is not at all reasonable to accuse me of such things.

If your brother steals a girl against her will into your home and you say nothing, are you not a silent accomplice in the crime? When you do nothing to combat such things you have in effect yielded the battle to those who perpetuate them.

Also look out for the über tolerant posts of mine too.

Can posting at PDF make nearly as much of a difference as acting in your family, your community, and on the streets?

you are mixing to completely different situations, there may be a shady common factor, but that doesn't nearly allow you to equate the two situations and claim that by and large all the factors at play are negligibly different.

Is it really my claim alone here? I've quoted the book's authors. You can feel the truth of it yourself can't you? You know that people in Pakistan toss accusations of Zionism around to discredit their opponents democratic legitimacy. De-demonize Zionism by endorsing civil society and human rights and you strengthen democracy by pulling the rug out from under such people.

So, to retort. I reserve my views in the earlier post.

I learned in 1971 that even well-educated and fully knowledgeable Pakistanis are always strongly tempted to pursue the line of thinking that justifies personal inaction. They look for someone else to lead them out of a morass. But today Pakistan's elected leaders are frightened by murderous extremists and partly cowed by a military that in part takes its cues directly from the mood of the masses.

You already seem pretty much convinced by my posts. I suggest you not take my word for it but confirm what you're in doubt about through your own efforts.

After that you need to take a leap of faith - in yourself. I've seen Pakistanis both succeed and fail in doing so. I wish you the best!

 

[Solomon2]

...I am glad that you don't fall for the propaganda of this Solomon2 troll...He is angry because I put his nonsense apart in many past discussions and humiliated him.

Odd. @flamer84, @ResurgentIran, the thread al-Hasani refers to is here. You can tell that I don't feel either angry or humiliated - but al-Hasani probably does!

In the European forum he's basically saying that if you want good to triumph you must become a zionist.

Yes, indeed! Furthermore, you'll have to do it without qualification, for you can't let anybody have an "out" where they can accuse someone of being a Zionist and demonize them on that basis.

You'll have to defend your stance, of course. Lucky for you, I and a few other Zionists have posted a lot of material here at PDF for you to work with.

 

[flamer84]

Yes, indeed! Furthermore, you'll have to do it without qualification, for you can't let anybody have an "out" where they can accuse someone of being a Zionist and demonize them on that basis.

You'll have to defend your stance, of course. Lucky for you, I and a few other Zionists have posted a lot of material here at PDF for you to work with.

So,for someone to be blind to propaganda he must blindly follow a trend,in this case zionism.Cool story.No thanks.
As to the actual problem ,let's be honest,there are no good/bad guys in here.I don't think that all israelis are evil racists and not all palestinians are nazi terrorists.Israel is here to stay and so are the palestinians,so,stop the buldozers,give them a country of their own and see how that works out.If they still behave warlike towards Israel you can take punitive measures.Stop milking the Holocaust and past horrors because they're long gone and don't try to sell zionism to us "indoctrinated" masses,we don't care.We just want a stop to the ME drama.

 

[ResurgentIran]

You can tell that I don't feel either angry or humiliated

Hmm...I didnt know racist psycopathic Zionists could feel anything...

 

[ResurgentIran]

You can tell that I don't feel either angry or humiliated

Hmm...I didnt know racist psycopathic Zionists could feel anything...

 

[Solomon2]

As to the actual problem ,let's be honest,there are no good/bad guys in here.

Sorry, mate, but setting up false moral equivalences is part of the problem; the authors make that quite clear.

give them a country of their own and see how that works out.

That was the Oslo plan; the Arabs' leaders chose violence instead (even though, under Oslo, they pledged to forsake ALL violence related to territorial disputes and "recognized" Israel.)

If they still behave warlike towards Israel you can take punitive measures.

Do tell what "punitive measures" you would tell your government to support.

Stop milking the Holocaust and past horrors because they're long gone and don't try to sell zionism to us "indoctrinated" masses,we don't care.We just want a stop to the ME drama.

"Milking the Holocaust" - I find that personally offensive. I grew up without grandparents - they and other relatives died in the gas chambers. And the Iranians and anti-Zionist Arabs advocate the physical elimination of Israel - the destruction of half of the world's remaining Jewish population.

Like I said, this thread isn't even ABOUT Israel. It's about Pakistan and what Pakistanis need to do to build a society where they don't submit to guys who shoot politicians, blow up mosques, rob homes, steal women, prey on minorities, etc.

Surf's up, gotta go -

 

[ResurgentIran]

And the Iranians and anti-Zionist Arabs advocate the physical elimination of Israel - the destruction of half of the world's remaining Jewish population.

Inaccurate. We advocate the elimination of Israel as a Jewish state, but that doesnt mean physical elimination. Elimination in very much the same way apartheid in South Africa was abolished/eliminated. Which was through a global boycott, divest and sanctions movement.

We see that same movement today against Israel. Still small, but is growing at a rapid pace.

Give Palestinians in West Bank citizenship and equal rights, and then we can accept your state and have cordial relations.

 

[Pakistani E]

Oh another book about how the evil evil arabs were planning to murder the jews? I think I'll pass....

Which reminds me, there's another of solomons friend on utube who insists that muslims fought for the Nazis and the muslims from the sub continent stole the pics of hindu and Sikh soldiers and passed em of as their own.

 

[Battle of Kursk]

Israel is here to stay and so are the palestinians,so,stop the buldozers,give them a country of their own and see how that works out.If they still behave warlike towards Israel you can take punitive measures.

We can do that. Actually we have done that, look at Gaza.
Is there any reason to believe that if we just withdrew from the West Bank they would stop attacking us?
Look at the views of the Palestinians on the forum, they do not believe in peace even then. Only in peace when there is no Israel left.
Check out the published beliefs of the Hamas, a faction that has more support then any other among Palestinian Arabs, which states black on white that no long term peace is possible with Israel, ever.
How about the other more extreme factions, like Islamic Jihad, the popular front and the Al Quida off shots in Gaza?
Hamas may rule just Gaza but it has a widespread support in the West Bank as well. The same way the Arab Palestinian attacks did not start in 67' (and were actually one of the causes of the 56' war) they will not stop if Israel withdraws to the 67 border.

If Israel indeed withdraws from the WB then advanced weapons would flow into the West bank as well as Al Quida like factions, just like it happened in Syria and Libya. But unlike those countries Israel is small which means that immediately the transportation lines between south and north, our only international airport, our business center (Tel Aviv and it's outskirts) as well as much of our population would be under fire. But I am sure that like now EU and USA would pressure us to give peace a chance and just ignore the "victims of peace". This would allow for more heavy weapons and foreign fighters to make their way into the Palestinian land, making the inevitable war much much more bloody.

Eventually this would mean we will have to move back into the West Bank (just like after the Oslo accords after which Israel practically never went into their cities, which ended after 1,500 Israeli civilians dead in the course of a few years with operation chomat magen which retook those cities) fast and with brutal force to stop this ASAP. now Israel is not Syria or Libya, the West Bank area is relatively small, and we are much more powerful then them, as well as much more motivated in a defensive war. The West Bank would be secured within months. But the price... there would be thousands, probably tens of thousands dead. Most of which Arabs since the war would be fought in the West Bank. the Palestinian cities? Check out conquered Syrian cities.

At this point it seems like this scenario is going to happen, sadly.
I believe there is a way to reach a (relatively) sustainable peace, which includes Israel's withdrawal from the West Bank. For this to work people have to realize that there are two sides to a peace deal, and Israel's withdrawal to whatever borders is not going to fix it. Just like Israel's withdrawal from Sinai in 56' never led to peace but to more bloodshed, so would an unilateral withdrawal now.

Israel has withdrawn from Gaza, leaving advanced agricultural farms intact. Farms that were generating tens of millions in exports to Europe and much food. What did they do? dismantled them and used the parts for rockets.
Palestinian Arabs have received more aid than the whole of Western Europe did after WW2. Do you know where this money goes? to support the families of suicide bombers, to prisoners many of which were arrested for trying or kilingl civilians and to corruption. They could have been the Singapore/Hong kong of the ME.

EU Report: Palestinians ‘lost’ €1.95 billion of aid money due to corruption

********.com - EU Report: Palestinians ?lost? ?1.95 billion of aid money due to corruption

this is nothing new either:

The Palestinian Authority has yet to draft a criminal and civil code. What passes for law is brute and capricious force, imposed by 41,000 members of seven separate police forces—police forces that may arrest without warrant and detain without due process. The 41,000 are the muscle in an obesity of a bureaucracy: the Palestinian Authority boasts no fewer than 80,451 employees, spread among 24 different ministries. Salaries for these employees consume more than half of the entire Palestinian national budget, which ran to $814 million in 1997.

Where does the rest of the money go? Almost all of it is stolen or dribbled away. The Palestinian Authority's own auditors reported last year that nearly 40 percent of the annual budget—$323 million—was wasted, looted, or misused. In President Arafat's regime, bribery is endemic, services are nil, connections are everything, and might is the only right there is.

Investing in Yasser Arafat