Book recommendation: Nazi Palestine

[Solomon2]

Nazi Palestine: The Plan for the Extermination of the Jews in Palestine, was first published in German in 2005 and was translated into English a few years ago. The book documents the efforts of Nazi Germany to eliminate Palestine's Jews, including its cooperation with Arab leaders and their militias. While the Nazis were defeated, their Arab allies escaped post-war prosecution with the help of the French and British. These men and their organizations formed the nucleus of anti-Israel terror groups that targeted both Arabs and Jews in their quest to expand tyranny in the Middle East:

"...Years after the German defeat in the war, anti-Jewish riots occurred in numerous locations...as a result, mass emigration took place...of the once 300,000 Jews in Morocco, only 18,000 remained. Of 135,000 Algerian, 125,000 Iraq, and 75,000 Egyptian Jews, only a few hundred -

"Whenever the Middle East's open admiration for National Socialism is historiographically proven, the immediate response is the excuse that support for National Socialism merely corresponded with the wish for national liberation. Such reasoning undoubtedly falls short -

The German authors conclude:

"What is worth highlighting...is the categorical insistence on defending the state of Israel. The authors have repeatedly emphasized a broader connection that has been demonstrated time and again in the decades since the end of World War II, including in the Middle East: all chances of understanding are destroyed when the principles of civilized cooperation are abandoned in favor of action founded on irrational mind-sets aimed at stigmatizing human individuals or social gruops based on supposed inherent characteristics. Nazi Germany and parts of the Arab world saw themselves in a common struggle against "imperialist" England, and the Jews were denounced as instigators and accomplices. Because no rational negotiation was possible in the face of such delusional thinking, the descent into disaster was already looming.

"In such a context, it is totally beside the point to introduce the view of different cultural practices as a form of absolution for the Arabs. Such an argument means nothing less than reducing individuals and their actions to different rigid cultural circles and thus excusing them, and also denying the subjects any serious reflection on human action...this issue has nothing to do with Eurocentrism; in this case, universalism is of essential importance in reaching a verdict on the Arabs' collaboration with Nazi Germany.

"Western thinking would be impossible without the achievements of the Enlightenment, which enabled the acceptance of the universal value of all human beings beyond the limits of religion, economic wealth, or gender...such a civilizing ideal does not yet exist in some communities, and some nations, such as Germany, even voluntarily renounced it...In no way can this lead to declarations of understanding for Arab societies that...were prepared to realizing...[independence] through an alliance with Nazi Germany and through the commission of mass crimes. It is precisely because of the universality of the human condition that no one can be released from such responsibility.

"When scholarship no longer strives to distinguish between thoroughly legitimate aspirations of national independence and the recourse to prejudice-based ideologies such as anti-imperialism, anti-Zionism, and anti-Semitism, the danger arises that the difference between englightened thinking and the alternative road to barbarism may be lost. The full awareness of the 20th century's crimes against humanity resides precisely in this ability to differentiate, which should be defended at all costs."

This thread isn't about begging sympathy for Jews or Israelis. This thread is a warning to Pakistanis: what happened to the Germans and Jews is happening to you now. The same mindset that gears you towards Israel- and Jew-hatred fuels the Taliban, intolerance of provincial differences, decay of human rights, and the decline of the rule of law and the elimination of civil society. Everyone who isn't a Talib is in danger of being labelled a despised Jew. Every politician can be demonized by his opponent by labeling him or her a Zionist. Murderers of politicians who seek to uphold civil rights are celebrated for their irrationality.

I doubt Pakistanis will get over their - ahem - distaste for Jews, Judaism, or Israel (or myself) any time soon. That doesn't matter. Every one of you can see the choice is between supporting Israel in your home and community or else submitting to growing tyranny. Unless you are rich and have a lot of protection, there isn't any way out of the hole unless you are prepared to defend being pro-Israel, lest you be accused of being pro-Israel anyway - Imran Khan - no lover of Israel - is the prime example.

Perhaps there are Pakistani politicians who would be willing to change their attitude towards Israel. However, I've studied Pakistani politics enough to know that no Pakistani politician will take a public stand unless he or she can point to some sort of grass roots support, however small.

The path ahead for each freedom-loving Pakistani here should now be obvious.

 

[flamer84]

You just couldn't let all those "israelis =racists" threads without a response huh ? ...oh well,here goes nothing

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

There is a saying in Arabic says "When the perpetrator pretends to be the victim", hit me and cry, then run and complain about me. Your audacity is beyond imagination people.

 

[al-Hasani]

You just couldn't let all those "israelis =racists" threads without a response huh ? ...oh well,here goes nothing

That's all Muslim, Arab and non-Jewish propaganda of course. Did you not know? So why even waste your time on it?

Don't worry about that Solomon2 troll. He is in his class of his own. Probably an 40-50 year old "man". Thus this makes him more sophisticated than the usual teenage ***** of trolls here. And obviously more articulate since he is writing in his mother tongue. I don't think that Khazar Jews are taught Hebrew. So I will stick to English.

There is a saying in Arabic says "When the perpetrator pretends to be the victim", hit me and cry, then run and complain about me. Your audacity is beyond imagination people.

99,9% of all Palestinians did not even know what a Nazi was at that time (during WW2) and had no role in the WW2.

But anyway you are dealing with an individual who invents history, claims that every Arab is murderous by nature and every non-Jew is very mistaken. And something about Jews being the chosen people and other nonsense. You know the usual right-wing Zionist propaganda and nonsense.

I would really like to pay to see that creature in real life.

 

[flamer84]

That's all Muslim, Arab and non-Jewish propaganda of course. Did you not know? So why even waste your time on it?

Don't worry about that Solomon2 troll. He is in his class of his own. Probably an 40-50 year old "man". Thus this makes him more sophisticated than the usual teenage ***** of trolls here. And obviously more articulate since he is writing in his mother tongue. I don't think that Khazar Jews are taught Hebrew. So I will stick to English.





99,9% of all Palestinians did not even know what a Nazi was at that time (during WW2) and had no role in the WW2.

But anyway you are dealing with an individual who invents history, claims that every Arab is murderous by nature and every non-Jew is very mistaken. And something about Jews being the chosen people and other nonsense. You know the usual right-wing Zionist propaganda and nonsense.

I would really like to pay to see that creature in real life.

Now,i'm somewhere in the middle about the palestinian issue but when you put a cherry on the cake like solomon sometimes does you're in for a laugh.In the European forum he's basically saying that if you want good to triumph you must become a zionist.

 

[al-Hasani]

Now,i'm somewhere in the middle about the palestinian issue but when you put a cherry on the cake like solomon sometimes does you're in for a laugh.In the European forum he's basically saying that if you want good to triumph you must become a zionist.

I do never follow the European forum nor do I recall ever writing there but that Solomon2 individual is very famous for his nonsense on this section and dare I say on the forum.

So it does not surprise me that he would make a utter idiotic and ridiculous statements such as the one you wrote. I am not shocked at all.

 

[Battle of Kursk]

99,9% of all Palestinians did not even know what a Nazi was at that time (during WW2) and had no role in the WW2.

But anyway you are dealing with an individual who invents history...

That claim is dead wrong.
At the time both Jews and Arabs were referred to as Palestinians, the attribution of the 2000 year old term to only Arabs is a new thing, of the last 40 years. I sincerely doubt that the Jews, many of whom have relatives in Europe, or themselves escaped from said land, did not know what is Nazi Germany.

Though you were probably referring to Arabs only. I find a claim that the Arabs were not aware of the super power of their time, Nazi Germany. Which was waging a war all across the globe, interesting. War that included Egypt and Iraq, regions from which many Palestinian Arabs immigrated and had relatives there.
I find it hard to believe that they were ignorant of the driving force behind so many events in Palestine of the time, namely the immigration of many Jews with capital from Europe, which encouraged Arab immigration as well. Later said immigration was the cause for the 36-39 Arab rebellion against the British.
Are you really claiming that the Arabs were ignorant of all that?

Not to mention their leader was a friend of Nazi officials and embraced the Nazi ideology, advocating the final solution was the best way to go around getting rid of Jews.

I find your statement about invented history deeply ironical, given the above.

 

[al-Hasani]

No, you are the one inventing history. 99,9% of all Arabs had no clue about what Nazism was or what was going on in Europe. Such ideologies were alien in the Arab world. When nearly all Europeans did not know about Holocaust and Germans until after the war then how come do you expect people in another continent to know about it? People that played no part in the war and let alone spoke/understood German or English.

Palestinains had nothing to do with WW2 and that is as simple as it is really. Extremely few if anything. Let alone the Holocaust which you try to imply.

The Palestinian Arab and Israeli Jewish conflict predated 1933 which was the year of the Nazi takeover in Germany.

Palestinian Arabs and Jewish Israelis were already killing each other before the WW2 even began.

List of Irgun attacks - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Viking 63]

Where can i find this book !!

 

[Jungibaaz]

Some things to be noted from these kind of books.
But on the whole the displays are unimpressive and repetitive.

We've seen things like this before from Joan Peters, Benny Morris, Alan Dershowitz, an unimpressive display every time.
Books for apologetics not much else.

 

[Battle of Kursk]

No, you are the one inventing history. 99,9% of all Arabs had no clue about what Nazism was or what was going on in Europe. Such ideologies were alien in the Arab world. When nearly all Europeans did not know about Holocaust and Germans until after the war then how come do you expect people in another continent to know about it? People that played no part in the war and let alone spoke/understood German or English.

Palestinains had nothing to do with WW2 and that is as simple as it is really. Extremely few if anything. Let alone the Holocaust which you try to imply.

The Palestinian Arab and Israeli Jewish conflict predated 1933 which was the year of the Nazi takeover in Germany.

Palestinian Arabs and Jewish Israelis were already killing each other before the WW2 even began.

Straw-man? really?
No where have I said that the Arab Palestinian were aware of the gas chambers.
No where have I said that the Arabs here were part of the war.
No where have I said that this was the origins of the conflict.

That said, the Nazi ideology towards the Jews was no secret, it directly effected the lives of many Arabs here. Tend of thousands Jews fled Nazi Germany to this land with a lot of money up jumping it's economy and deeply effecting the nature of the country.
Arabs and Jews of the time lived in proximity, worked together, or for one another. Not only fought each other. To believe that the Arabs did not know the Nazi ideology towards Jews from first hand source is laughable.
The Arab leaders have endorsed the Nazi ideas towards the Jews (vermin, source of all evil etc, ideas we see till this day to tbh) and many of their followers with them.
I agree that for most of the war word of the final solution was secret, but the ideology was not.

So what history have I invented? what is wrong in what I actually said (real, not imaginary...)?

btw, the fact that you link only to the actions of one side in the Jew-Arab conflict reeks of low propaganda.

 

[al-Hasani]

Straw-man? really?
No where have I said that the Arab Palestinian were aware of the gas chambers.
No where have I said that the Arabs here were part of the war.
No where have I said that this was the origins of the conflict.

That said, the Nazi ideology towards the Jews was no secret, it directly effected the lives of many Arabs here. Tend of thousands Jews fled Nazi Germany to this land with a lot of money up jumping it's economy and deeply effecting the nature of the country.
Arabs and Jews of the time lived in proximity, worked together, or for one another. Not only fought each other. To believe that the Arabs did not know the Nazi ideology towards Jews from first hand source is laughable.
The Arab leaders have endorsed the Nazi ideas towards the Jews (vermin, source of all evil etc, ideas we see till this day to tbh) and many of their followers with them.
I agree that for most of the war word of the final solution was secret, but the ideology was not.

So what history have I invented? what is wrong in what I actually said (real, not imaginary...)?

btw, the fact that you link only to the actions of one side in the Jew-Arab conflict reeks of low propaganda.

Well it sounded like that.

I don't understand what you are talking about? In what way did Nazism affect the lives of Palestinian Arabs?

Yes, Arabs and Jews lived peacefully with each other in what is now Palestine for centuries before the mass emigration of Jews and Zionists from Europe (Ashkenazi Jews). After all both people are fairly close in many aspects besides both being Semitic people. At least the Jews that predated the mass-emigrations.

Besides that can be said about all Mizrahi Jews (Arab Jews from Arab lands) be it in Morocco, Yemen, Iraq or elsewhere. After all half of the Israeli Jewish population are those Mizrahi Jews whom you can't distinguish from regular Arabs in their countries of origin. Or from the Palestinian Arabs who form 20% of Israel's population.

Once again what first hand sources are you talking about? Where Germans ever present in Palestine and among Palestinian Arabs? I seriously doubt it. Maybe I was asleep when they taught that part of history.

The knowledge of Nazism as a political ideology, holocaust, Hitler and the WW2 first really evolved AFTER WW2. Much like it did everywhere else. After all history is best written after the actual events have taken place.

The same rhetoric can be found among many Zionists and Israeli Jews. In public and secret. So that is a ad hominem argument.

How is posting a factual link propaganda? I could have posted a link of Arab killings of Jews from that time period. My point was to show that the conflict and killings from both sides predated WW2 which is correct.

I already told you that both sides have done mistakes and that both sides need to find a peaceful solution to their political disagreements and that no party is without fault.

But as an Muslim and Arab and even as a human being I find the Palestinian cause much more sympathetic although I don't deny the right of the Jews to have a homeland.

 

[Battle of Kursk]

I am no expert on the subject, it never really interested me much. But if you care for it, there was a lot of Nazi propaganda in the middle east, which was an important part of the global war. The war never reached Palestine but it waged around it.

Nazi propaganda efforts in the Arab world:

A specialist in modern German history at the University of Maryland, Herf brings a new corpus of information to light: summary accounts of Nazi shortwave radio broadcasts in the Arabic language that were generated over three years by the U.S. embassy in Cairo. This cache reveals fully, for the first time, what Berlin told the Arabs (and to a lesser extent, the Iranians).

Nazi propaganda in Arabic portrayed World War II, history's largest and most destructive war, as focused primarily on the sliver of land between the Mediterranean Sea and the Jordan River. This interpretation both flattered Arabs and extended Hitler's grand theory that Jews wanted to take over the Arab countries and eventually the whole world, that the Allied powers were but pawns in this Zionist conspiracy [Sounds familiar much?] , and that Germany was leading the resistance to them.

Palestine was the key, according to these broadcasts. If Zionists took it over, they would "control the three continents: Europe, Asia, and Africa. Thus they will be able to rule the whole world and spread Jewish capitalism." Such an eventuality would lead to Arabs oppressed and Islam defunct. "Should Bolshevism and Democracy be victorious," announced Nazi radio, "the Arabs will be dominated forever and all traces of Islam will be wiped out." To avoid this fate, Arabs had to join with the Axis.

As the war progressed, Berlin's incitement became ever more furious. "You must kill the Jews before they open fire on you. Kill the Jews" went a July 1942 broadcast. Herf notes the bitter irony: "At this moment of complete Jewish powerlessness, the Arabic broadcasts from Berlin skillfully adapted the general Nazi propaganda line about Jewish domination of the anti-Hitler coalition to a radical Arab and Islamic view."

Having detailed Nazi propaganda in Arabic, Herf then traces its impact. He begins by documenting the great energy and expense devoted to these messages—the quality of the personnel devoted to it, their high-level Nazi patronage, the thousands of hours of radio transmissions, and the millions of pamphlets.

He then rounds up assessments of the Axis impact, all pointing to its success. Allied estimates from 1942, for example, found that "the people were saturated with Axis talk," that "upwards of three-fourths of the Moslem world are in favor of the Axis" and that "90% of the Egyptians, including their government, believe that the Jews are mainly responsible for shortages and high prices of essentials." A report from 1944 found that "practically all Arabs who have radios … listen to Berlin."

Allied reluctance to contradict Nazi propaganda also points to Axis success. Fearful of alienating Middle Easterners, the Allies stayed humiliatingly silent about the genocide taking place against the Jews; failed to refute allegations about Jews dominating London, Washington, and Moscow; did not dispute the distorted Koranic interpretations; and shied away from endorsing Zionism. Merely to dispute Nazi accusations, the Allies worried, would only confirm Nazi claims about Britain, America, and Russia being stooges of Jewish power. An internal U.S. directive in late 1942 acknowledged that "the subject of Zionist aspirations cannot be mentioned, inasmuch as … [this] would jeopardize our strategy in the Eastern Mediterranean."

 

[ResurgentIran]

I already told you that both sides have done mistakes and that both sides need to find a peaceful solution to their political disagreements and that no party is without fault.

"Both sides"? There are no both sides. That implies they are on equal terms. What we have is one actor (Israhell) which has about 80 % of mandatory Palestine. Note that this is only talking about the 1967 borders, it becomes much mroe with settlement expansion in West Bank. With annexation of Area C (very likely to happen) they will even control 60 % of the West Bank.
Israel is the state that controls West Bank through settlements, checkpoints, airspace, water resources etc.

On the other hand we have Palestinians who live in ghetto-like bantustans which is surrounded by walls, are opressed, cant move freely. They basically live in a prison.

So please lets not use the terminology "both sides". Because there is absolutely no symmetry between them.

 

[elis]

Hitler's Jewish Soldiers in the Wehrmacht & SS - YouTube

150 000 Jews in Hitler's Army


WALL STREET AND
THE RISE OF HITLER

Heil Hitler Heil Heil Heil Heil Heil Heil Heil Heil Heil Heil Heil
Heil to Bosnian waffen ss

I really hate the zionists but the nazis or Al Qaeda as much

Nazis and Al Qaeda are the same blood: brainless fanatics