Boeing offers advanced 787 dreamliner to PIA

[Moon]

that is the "list" price. airline get at least a 30% discount if they order bulk. very large orders result in the actual price being half or if not less than the list price. so if a 787-9 has a list price of $269.4 million and you order lets say 12 you would be paying about 200 million.

That still equals to 2400 million dollars. PIA is yet to churn out profits at that scale, furthermore maintenance of 12 787s is far more than A-330s, which have a lower maintenance cost, and a lower cost-per nautical mile:
Manufacturer & Model Fuel Cost (per Nautical Mile)
Airbus A330-300 $24.34
Boeing 767-400ER $25.58
Boeing 767-200 $26.03
Boeing BBJ 787-9 $26.23

Not to mention a standard A330 compared with a 787, is brimming with features.

Whilst the issue of a smaller fuel tank does arrive, and the lesser take off weight.
I earlier mentioned a Neo upgrade would fix that. And bring even more efficiency to the jet.

(Mind you, we're comparing a fully equipped A-330 vs a mid equipped 787, a fully equipped 787 is around 300 million dollars, and still less equipped than an A-330-300. And don't forget PIA operates A-330s, hence we already have a crew for it.)

 

[The Diplomat]

The Boeing 777 can seat 100 more passengers than a 787 but the 787 is more modern and is cheaper to run. What should we go for?

 

[cloud4000]

The Boeing 777 can seat 100 more passengers than a 787 but the 787 is more modern and is cheaper to run. What should we go for?

Depends on what PIA requirements are. If it wants 777s, why buy new when so many of them are plentiful in the used market. The 787 would fill a nice niche for PIA, as it would replace the 310, but also provide long-haul to ultra long haul flights to Europe, Asia, and even Australia.

It would be an ideal addition to PIAs fleet.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

i dont get that, why would boeing ask pia to convert the order for 5 777's to 787's? the 777 production line is comming to an end when the 777-8/9 come to production in 2018 and they dont have enought orders to keep the line going till then.

PIA wanted to convert this order to B737-8 but Boeing refused.

PIA started to replace the A-310-300's with A-320.

A-330-300 that PIA has acquired might be using similar engines to the B-777's PIA operates.

Some airlines that operate both the B-777 and B-787 have equated pilots so that they can be operated by already trained B-777 pilots.

What baffles me is why would PIA convert B-777-300 ER's that carry 450+ passenger with 300 passenger aircraft. If PIA required aircraft of 300-350 seats then it should have converted these B777-300ER to B-777-200ER's which could have added an other aircraft. This also brings me to the conclusion PIA would not go for B787's.

PIA adding the A330's was long overdue they had canceled the A-340-500 and procured the B-777's. A300's were sold without any replacements though options were available. So the A-330's were always on the cards for PIA. PIA was offered the A320 and A-330 in the 90's but went for A-310-300's.

That still equals to 2400 million dollars. PIA is yet to churn out profits at that scale, furthermore maintenance of 12 787s is far more than A-330s, which have a lower maintenance cost, and a lower cost-per nautical mile:
Manufacturer & Model Fuel Cost (per Nautical Mile)
Airbus A330-300 $24.34
Boeing 767-400ER $25.58
Boeing 767-200 $26.03
Boeing BBJ 787-9 $26.23

Not to mention a standard A330 compared with a 787, is brimming with features.

Whilst the issue of a smaller fuel tank does arrive, and the lesser take off weight.
I earlier mentioned a Neo upgrade would fix that. And bring even more efficiency to the jet.

(Mind you, we're comparing a fully equipped A-330 vs a mid equipped 787, a fully equipped 787 is around 300 million dollars, and still less equipped than an A-330-300. And don't forget PIA operates A-330s, hence we already have a crew for it.)

The feasibility of an aircraft varies on airline and its operations so one can not accurately say which aircraft is ideal till the exact calculations are made.

@Imtiaz_Sarwar Sir, your comments would be appreciated.

 

[Genghis khan1]

The Boeing 777 can seat 100 more passengers than a 787 but the 787 is more modern and is cheaper to run. What should we go for?

787. Countries are using smaller plans for efficiency and it provide Airline to run more flight per week giving customers more options to select a day to fly.

 

[maximuswarrior]

That still equals to 2400 million dollars. PIA is yet to churn out profits at that scale, furthermore maintenance of 12 787s is far more than A-330s, which have a lower maintenance cost, and a lower cost-per nautical mile:
Manufacturer & Model Fuel Cost (per Nautical Mile)
Airbus A330-300 $24.34
Boeing 767-400ER $25.58
Boeing 767-200 $26.03
Boeing BBJ 787-9 $26.23

Not to mention a standard A330 compared with a 787, is brimming with features.

Whilst the issue of a smaller fuel tank does arrive, and the lesser take off weight.
I earlier mentioned a Neo upgrade would fix that. And bring even more efficiency to the jet.

(Mind you, we're comparing a fully equipped A-330 vs a mid equipped 787, a fully equipped 787 is around 300 million dollars, and still less equipped than an A-330-300. And don't forget PIA operates A-330s, hence we already have a crew for it.)

The Airbus model you have cited is certainly a serious competitor of Boeing. It seems the Airbus would be a very good choice for PIA. The plane also seems fully loaded with options. Lower cost of maintenance and fuel efficiency for an airline like PIA are very important.

 

[Basel]

The Boeing planes PIA has so far missed out on are 727, 717 (MD-95), 757, 767
I always wanted the 757s and 767s to be part of the PIA fleet

Why?

 

[HAIDER]

View attachment 326762 Letter


written by boeing to Prime minister Mian Muhammad Nawaz Sharif, explaining boeing's relations with PIA and offering of 787 dreamliner to Pakistan International Airlines.

Ya bataoo commission kitna mila ga......awsome offer, order it and sell it during the building process.

 

[Moon]

The Airbus model you have cited is certainly a serious competitor of Boeing. It seems the Airbus would be a very good choice for PIA. The plane also seems fully loaded with options. Lower cost of maintenance and fuel efficiency for an airline like PIA are very important.

The thing which draws me to Airbus is that A-330-300 isn't even meant as a competition to the 787, yet it's specifications are already better, the actual competitor to the 787 is the A-350, which IMO is probably the best money can buy.

PIA wanted to convert this order to B737-8 but Boeing refused.

PIA started to replace the A-310-300's with A-320.

A-330-300 that PIA has acquired might be using similar engines to the B-777's PIA operates.

Some airlines that operate both the B-777 and B-787 have equated pilots so that they can be operated by already trained B-777 pilots.

What baffles me is why would PIA convert B-777-300 ER's that carry 450+ passenger with 300 passenger aircraft. If PIA required aircraft of 300-350 seats then it should have converted these B777-300ER to B-777-200ER's which could have added an other aircraft. This also brings me to the conclusion PIA would not go for B787's.

PIA adding the A330's was long overdue they had canceled the A-340-500 and procured the B-777's. A300's were sold without any replacements though options were available. So the A-330's were always on the cards for PIA. PIA was offered the A320 and A-330 in the 90's but went for A-310-300's.


The feasibility of an aircraft varies on airline and its operations so one can not accurately say which aircraft is ideal till the exact calculations are made.

@Imtiaz_Sarwar Sir, your comments would be appreciated.

PIA already operates a fleet of A-330s I see nothing that stops us from choosing it over the 787.

 

[Blue Marlin]

That still equals to 2400 million dollars. PIA is yet to churn out profits at that scale, furthermore maintenance of 12 787s is far more than A-330s, which have a lower maintenance cost, and a lower cost-per nautical mile:
Manufacturer & Model Fuel Cost (per Nautical Mile)
Airbus A330-300 $24.34
Boeing 767-400ER $25.58
Boeing 767-200 $26.03
Boeing BBJ 787-9 $26.23

Not to mention a standard A330 compared with a 787, is brimming with features.

Whilst the issue of a smaller fuel tank does arrive, and the lesser take off weight.
I earlier mentioned a Neo upgrade would fix that. And bring even more efficiency to the jet.

(Mind you, we're comparing a fully equipped A-330 vs a mid equipped 787, a fully equipped 787 is around 300 million dollars, and still less equipped than an A-330-300. And don't forget PIA operates A-330s, hence we already have a crew for it.)

yes the a330 is a good reliable bird with many in service and with the upcomming a330 neo which is intended to rival the 787 family. as much as i like the a330 simply becasue a huge amount of the parts are made in the uk, wings brakes landing gear and engines and will be the only supplier of engines for the a330 neo.
the a330 neo is not in service yet so lets not get hung up on which is better. but i can only see the a330 being a good option as it has commonality with older airframes. even with the 747's you can use parts from the 747-400 and use them on the newer 747-8. i feel since the a330 neo is still in development they will try beat the performance of the 787 but remember the 787 is a clean sheet design the a330 has the same fusalage with newer wings and engine among other tid bits. in all i do see the a330 being a good option but the flexibilty of the 787 family in terms of seating is uncomparable to the a330 family. if you want to compete the like of the 787-9 then your looking at the a350 there which is a whole new bird.

PIA wanted to convert this order to B737-8 but Boeing refused.

PIA started to replace the A-310-300's with A-320.

A-330-300 that PIA has acquired might be using similar engines to the B-777's PIA operates.

Some airlines that operate both the B-777 and B-787 have equated pilots so that they can be operated by already trained B-777 pilots.

What baffles me is why would PIA convert B-777-300 ER's that carry 450+ passenger with 300 passenger aircraft. If PIA required aircraft of 300-350 seats then it should have converted these B777-300ER to B-777-200ER's which could have added an other aircraft. This also brings me to the conclusion PIA would not go for B787's.

PIA adding the A330's was long overdue they had canceled the A-340-500 and procured the B-777's. A300's were sold without any replacements though options were available. So the A-330's were always on the cards for PIA. PIA was offered the A320 and A-330 in the 90's but went for A-310-300's.

im going to gloss over the part where you said boeing refuse to conver the 777 order into 737-800's instead as the 777 is a widebody jet whilse the 737 ng is a narrowbody jet.

you dont even know what your talking about the a330s tha pia has on the srilankan a330 ar rolls royce trent 700's the 777 pia ordered from boeing can only be powered by one specific variant of engine and thats the ge-90 115b the most powerfull engine ever.

 

[Śakra]

PIA should by chinese jet COMAC C919.

 

[Moon]

yes the a330 is a good reliable bird with many in service and with the upcomming a330 neo which is intended to rival the 787 family. as much as i like the a330 simply becasue a huge amount of the parts are made in the uk, wings brakes landing gear and engines and will be the only supplier of engines for the a330 neo.

I see nothing wrong with that. If reliability or availability of parts was an issue, the whole concept of Airbus would've never took off.
I'm not even comparing the A330 Neo, I'm talking about the A330-300, and it's giving a hard time to the top tier 787.
And considering a few stunts Americans pulled off (according to a few members here) the history between PIA and Boeing isn't exactly good.
Furthermore, a "clean sheet" will be more expensive with the costs of training an entire crew without any experience and who knows how reliable the crew is.
Another issue is that the A330 had stood the test of time something the 787 is yet to face, who knows how many problems will come out?.
I agree with the A-350 though, that thing is the best out there.

PIA should by chinese jet COMAC C919.

I believe it's a regional jet.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Well would be great idea to upgrade specially for Long Range Flights

Pakistan - USA
Pakistan - UK
Pakistan - Australia
Pakistan - Canada
Pakistan - South Africa

More capacity -> More Passengers -> More options to offer competitive price , more comfort

No doubt there would be tremendous amount of Sale if they expand the First class service Geared for Pakistani Customers when people fly back home they want to fly in Maximum comfort

Also during Haj Season Maximum Load

If PIA adapts mind set of Full Plane configuration with First class seats these planes will never be empty - PIA brand name + First class seats no Pakistani will every fly anyother plane

Fuel economy is not every thing - the reason PIA was loosing money was , passengers were choosing alternative carriers to fly them between Pakistan - USA , UK, Canada , Australia
Becasue during that time the other companies took initiative and bought the best planes

I am not sure what Boeing has to offer but Airbus's cabin is the future of long range Aviation

If the Existing 777-ER order even implements this type of Seating across the plane it would be a big success in Passenger's mind

The biggest issue with Long haul flights is the stress level on congested seating

 

[untitled]

Why?

Just a personal wish I had

I also wanted PIA to be one of the best airlines in the world. Are you going to ask why again?

 

[Blue Marlin]

I see nothing wrong with that. If reliability or availability of parts was an issue, the whole concept of Airbus would've never took off.
I'm not even comparing the A330 Neo, I'm talking about the A330-300, and it's giving a hard time to the top tier 787.
And considering a few stunts Americans pulled off (according to a few members here) the history between PIA and Boeing isn't exactly good.
Furthermore, a "clean sheet" will be more expensive with the costs of training an entire crew without any experience and who knows how reliable the crew is.
Another issue is that the A330 had stood the test of time something the 787 is yet to face, who knows how many problems will come out?.
I agree with the A-350 though, that thing is the best out there.

I believe it's a regional jet.

the a330-300 is meant for mid haul routes it can do long haul to but that when it get expensive to do so. which is why airbus has developed variant for the 200 series only which has a incread max takeoff weight allowing for more fule and cargo.
why is the relationship between boeing and pia not good. pia was one of the first airlines or order each variant of the 777 family. and the launch customer of the 200lr.
personally i forsee huge slump in demand in about 2 years. so i wont go for anything new as lessors and the manufactures will go all out to sell airplanes. you can but used 9 year old a330s for about less than 100 million.
heck you can go online and see for your self

for pia. theres 2 options here. the safe option with good returns or the risky option with very good returns.
the safe option being is buying used effecient airframes a320,737ng,a330 and 777. and when there will be a slump much younger airframes will go on the market and will be depleated in value. or the risky method and wait for the slump and wait for airlines to cancel orders from lessors leaving them with a airplane which is not making money. thus leaving them to slash the lease of the airframes at a ridiculas rate and the airframes being the best you get the saving will be huge.