Boeing 737 MAX Crash (explained by Aviation expert)

[gambit]

As an aviation enthusiast, I refrain from commenting which side is the wrong one. But I can say however, it was pretty stupid from Boeing from going over-board with technological features in the MAX aircraft.

The "feature" of the MAX aircraft that caused it to crash was the automated system that dives the nose of the aircraft in event of a stalling. Unfortunately, this system was triggered somehow during the takeoff of the unfortunate flights, and caused both jets to crash tremendously horrible on the grounds.

So you have no aviation experience whatsoever but deemed yourself 'knowledgeable' enough to call MCAS 'stupid'.

So to start...Can you even guess for me, someone who have relevant aviation experience, under what scenario(s) would the aircraft automatically nose down?

Just a guess, but try to make it an educated one.

 

[@@@]

So you have no aviation experience whatsoever but deemed yourself 'knowledgeable' enough to call MCAS 'stupid'.

So to start...Can you even guess for me, someone who have relevant aviation experience, under what scenario(s) would the aircraft automatically nose down?

Just a guess, but try to make it an educated one.

I know what I am talking about. I have personally flown many aircraft.

 

[gambit]

I know what I am talking about. I have personally flown many aircraft.

I am a USAF veteran. F-111 Cold War and F-16 Desert Storm. In the F-111, there is the terrain following (TF) feature that will automatically pitch up/down according to the TF radars. My favorite is thru the hills of Scotland as I was stationed at RAF Upper Heyford. So that is one scenario where an aircraft will automatically nose down.

But we are not talking about a military aircraft specifically designed for specific purposes. We are talking about commercial platforms.

The MCAS is not the brainchild of one person at Boeing, of that we can be assured, but that it is the result of brainstorming sessions from many talented engineers. So if you called the MCAS 'stupid', you are essentially calling who knows how many people at Boeing 'stupid'.

As we both have 'stick time', meaning we both have hands on stick/yoke, surely you can make an educated guess as to when/how/why would an airliner command a pitch down.

 

[Mughal-Prince]

Main mischief is China, agree not? These 737's are literally produced right there in China. You're right its not only China, the world really gotta catch-up on tech and education.

Hehehehe You must have some personal score to settle with china

 

[TheNoob]

Hehehehe You must have some personal score to settle with china

That, he does.

 

[@@@]

That, he does.

My statements are not erroneous or flawed. Just wait for the future, it will all prevail how I was meticulously correct in every regard in this incident. I have gotten many of my statements absolutely proven correct in the past. My input on thus matter is ridiculed by you guys. But just remember, it will all prevail. A whole revolution in industry can come forth (stemming from the same outline that I presented). I will be doing interviews on the Biggest Channels about big things and what-not, this is the reality of someone with a highly influential mind.

 

[TheNoob]

My statements are not erroneous or flawed. Just wait for the future, it will all prevail how I was meticulously correct in every regard in this incident. I have gotten many of my statements absolutely proven correct in the past. My input on thus matter is ridiculed by you guys. But just remember, it will all prevail. A whole revolution in industry can come forth (stemming from the same outline that I presented). I will be doing interviews on the Biggest Channels about big things and what-not, this is the reality of someone with a highly influential mind.

Just get off your high horse.
Rest, you can believe what you want.

 

[@@@]

Just get off your high horse.
Rest, you can believe what you want.

1500 horsepower won't quite be high years from now. So of course I will get off and get on something much higher.

 

[gambit]

We have recently heard the news of the crash of the relatively new mid-range/"super welter-weight" aircraft from Boeing, the 737 MAX 8. There has been two major crashes (both due to same reason), each taking 100+ lives each.

Boeing will say "it is not our problem". Airlines will say "it is not our problem". The former blames the latter for improper training whilst the latter blames the former for engineering failure.

There are three types, or causes, of a crash...

- Maintenance
- Training
- Systemic

Maintenance is when the cause came from improper maintenance. If you do not fill your car's engine oil to its recommended quantity, in the long run, there will be negative consequences.

Training is when the operator is inadequately informed of the operations involved. For example, how do operate your car on a downhill slope. If you are a novice driver, with an automatic transmission, you will operate the car in a off/on/off/on/off/on braking method. The more experienced driver will shift the car into a lower gear and let engine braking do most of the job.

Systemic is when there is a genuine design and engineering origin. For example, the Ford Pinto's gas tank that was vulnerable to explosion and fire upon a rear collision.

So far, the availability of data in two 737 Max crashes hinted at maintenance, as in Lion Air Flight 610. But that is NOT definitive at this time.

As an aviation enthusiast, I refrain from commenting which side is the wrong one. But I can say however, it was pretty stupid from Boeing from going over-board with technological features in the MAX aircraft.

This is contradictory. If you called the MCAS as 'stupid' and Boeing's action as 'over-board' in installing the MCAS, you made a VALUE judgement which means you took a side.

The "feature" of the MAX aircraft that caused it to crash was the automated system that dives the nose of the aircraft in event of a stalling. Unfortunately, this system was triggered somehow during the takeoff of the unfortunate flights, and caused both jets to crash tremendously horrible on the grounds.

As you claimed to be an experienced pilot, what are the components of a possible stall?

As Donald Trump said:

I can safely say that I agree with this man.

Donald Trump is hardly a legitimate authority on what to do about this subject.

 

[serenity]

My statements are not erroneous or flawed. Just wait for the future, it will all prevail how I was meticulously correct in every regard in this incident. I have gotten many of my statements absolutely proven correct in the past. My input on thus matter is ridiculed by you guys. But just remember, it will all prevail. A whole revolution in industry can come forth (stemming from the same outline that I presented). I will be doing interviews on the Biggest Channels about big things and what-not, this is the reality of someone with a highly influential mind.

Your mind is very inferior. It is clear to everyone here from Gambit to members opposite to his views. First, prove 737-max is basically made in China. It is not. It is basically made all over the world like many other Boeing models and many Airbus models with component manfucaturing everywhere.

To prove your mind is weak, consider this. Even if we assume what you say is true, it only proves Chinese or Asian made is superior quality and superior engineering because when these planes were only designed and made in the West, the accident rate is MUCH higher than it is today. You saw two of this model crash. This is a tragedy and definitely show somethings responsible people need to investigate. BUT those models made 100% in the West have crashed hundreds of times in past. How do you explain that? You will try but we will see what a fool you are.

Second. Chinese students in USA count maybe less than 5% of all Chinese university students. Western education is NOT superior and actually widely considered INFERIOR to Chinese education inside China. Only a weak mind like your's can conclude that because you see many Chinese students, this proves superior education. You failed to consider many thousands of factors. Even a few are very obvious ... I can give you a hint, how come we see UK students studying in Australia too? Does that prove Cambridge is worse than Australian university?

It is mostly the dumb kids who are not smart enough to excel inside China, can go overseas if they have rich parents. You see a few thousand and think that is ALL Chinese students. Poor you. What a small mind. That's a very small percentage of our students. Some go overseas to top American universities and this is true but they are 1 in 10 Chinese students overseas who go to really study not just to have fun, party, and hopefully get citizenship so many of their family money can be brought overseas out of reach of Communist Party. How come many Russia, India, Iranian, Japanese ... on and on students also study all over the world? Chinese population is bigger than all of them combined... This could explain why you see so many Chinese and I bet you assume all east asian looking people are Chinese in your hateful mind... Sorry about our treatment of your precious Islam... we don't care and we know what your extreme types are like. I know this is why you hate Chinese but buddy all you have left in the world is hate have fun getting into your paradise with a sick mind like your's... So high and mighty and judgemental despite being garbage and totally incompetent yourself. At least those engineers can do something. You and your kind can do nothing in this life but complain and criticize those people who can. Cheap little weak man.

So despite all this, you conclude that American must be superior to all of them? Where is your high mind now? How about this logic; Why does USA place very low on standard international tests? Follow on with why are almost all high level researchers in USA foreign born and completed bachelors level in their home country? Where are those American kids? They are ~90 of population but do not represent even close to 90% of these post undergraduate level talents. I think this shows some problems with all levels of education. Follow this with funding factors and history factors. USA top universities and research institutions in the world today of course. But before they had even bigger contributor to that, now Asia and Europe are taking much of their space which shows trends and proves alternative countries have good education, maybe even better ones. Hard to measure and say for sure but one thing for sure is you think too highly of yourself. Good luck with your imaginations, reality of world ends up countering your opinions.

 

[@@@]

Your mind is very inferior. It is clear to everyone here from Gambit to members opposite to his views. First, prove 737-max is basically made in China. It is not. It is basically made all over the world like many other Boeing models and many Airbus models with component manfucaturing everywhere.

Second. Chinese students in USA count maybe less than 5% of all Chinese university students. Western education is NOT superior and actually widely considered INFERIOR to Chinese education inside China. Only the dumb kids who are not smart enough to excel inside China, can go overseas if they have rich parents. You see a few thousand and think that is ALL Chinese students. Poor you. What a small mind. That's a very small percentage of our students. Some go overseas to top American universities and this is true. But so do some Russia, India, Iranian, Japanese ... on and on. Does this mean American education is better than all of them? Where is your high mind now? How about this logic; Why does USA place very low on standard international tests? Follow on with why are almost all high level researchers in USA foreign born and completed bachelors level in their home country? Where are those American kids? They are ~90 of population but do not represent even close to 90% of these post undergraduate level talents. I think this shows some problems with all levels of education. Follow this with funding factors and history factors. USA top universities and research institutions in the world today of course. But before they had even bigger contributor to that, now Asia and Europe are taking much of their space which shows trends and proves alternative countries have good education, maybe even better ones. Hard to measure and say for sure but one thing for sure is you think too highly of yourself. Good luck with your imaginations, reality of world ends up countering your opinions.

You are twisting numbers, a classic trick by deceiving individuals. Last time I checked, California has millions of Chinese ethnic immigrants (who came for the sole purpose of education and making money). Are there millions of Americans, or Western foreigners for that matter studying and hence working in China? Answer is a simple no!

The reason why many Chinese come to US for education, isn't because they aren't smart enough for Chinese institutions (as you perceive). It is because they have the minds and resources to make the investment. Stop using that deceiving percentage by the way. If there wasn't restrictions on the amount of issuing of the F-1 VISA, then perhaps "all" of Chinese youth would be flooding America.

 

[serenity]

You are twisting numbers, a classic trick by deceiving individuals. Last time I checked, California has millions of Chinese ethnic immigrants (who came for the sole purpose of education and making money). Are there millions of Americans, or Western foreigners for that matter studying and hence working in China? Answer is a simple no!

The reason why many Chinese come to US for education, isn't because they aren't smart enough for Chinese institutions (as you perceive). It is because they have the minds and resources to make the investment. Stop using that deceiving percentage by the way. If there wasn't restrictions on the amount of issuing of the F-1 VISA, then perhaps "all" of Chinese youth would be flooding America.

What numbers am I twisting? Prove it. It is even more on my side than you think and more than I am claiming.

This isn't true. Chinese youth are flooding America? Do you know the difference between 1 billion and 300 million? You think how many Chinese there are already large numbers but that is a small percentage of all Chinese university age students. Only some are going overseas. Not all. Okay so you think if no restrictions are placed and they are all rich enough, all the youths will go to America and only because to receive higher level education?? Sorry but our education is not worse than USA I have studied in both countries and Australia and know many of these youths. Our education has different emphasis but it is not inferior or superior. There are ways western thinking is better and many Chinese bring these ways and thinking back home. It is about admitting where you are weak and someone else is strong so you can also change your ways. You just think you are born perfect and God's preferred person and cannot ever be less than superior or perfect. Keep laughing at others and keep criticizing them. Enjoy it my friend.

It seems like you are a young student. You are last person to call others inferior. Get a career in that field first. Also why do you enjoy bullying "F*gs" and "feminists"?? You seem like those extreme right wing conservative Muslim person. You get angry that life isn't the way you want it to perfectly be and attack other humans for it. So typical. Sorry but you are under our boot now and anything you try, we will squash you. Maintain your hatred it will destroy you first

 

[@@@]

What numbers am I twisting? Prove it. It is even more on my side than you think and more than I am claiming.

This isn't true. Chinese youth are flooding America? Do you know the difference between 1 billion and 300 million? You think how many Chinese there are already large numbers but that is a small percentage of all Chinese university age students. Only some are going overseas. Not all. Okay so you think if no restrictions are placed and they are all rich enough, all the youths will go to America and only because to receive higher level education?? Sorry but our education is not worse than USA I have studied in both countries and Australia and know many of these youths. Our education has different emphasis but it is not inferior or superior. There are ways western thinking is better and many Chinese bring these ways and thinking back home. It is about admitting where you are weak and someone else is strong so you can also change your ways. You just think you are born perfect and God's preferred person and cannot ever be less than superior or perfect. Keep laughing at others and keep criticizing them. Enjoy it my friend.

Use of profane language won't get you anywhere. Like I said, you continue to twist numbers. I don't think you understand Statistics. I advice you to take an e-course on this subject. Once you're done, come back and submit a post that explicitly expresses your defeat and an apology. Thank you!

 

[serenity]

Use of profane language won't get you anywhere. Like I said, you continue to twist numbers. I don't think you understand Statistics. I advice you to take an e-course on this subject. Once you're done, come back and submit a post that explicitly expresses your defeat and an apology.

Sorry about destroying your arguments here. I will take this continued avoidance to address my questions as your admittance to your failure of conjectures and your defeat and apology to the thread.

1. Why do modern "Chinese built" Boeing planes have lower accident rate than older 100% western boeing planes?

2. Prove to me all Chinese students WANT to study in American university and definitely only there to receive superior education. Failing this, prove that all Chinese students would like to go if no obstacles.

3. Prove how Pakistani person like yourself studying and living in USA doesn't show that Pakistan is a shithole no one wants to be in and with inferior people and education. How come Pakistan doesn't make a single thing that is exported and used around the world?

4. Also explain why Russian students are in USA. Why UK students are in Australia. Why American/UK/Russian/Pakistani/Iranian students ARE in China too? I see plenty in Beijing. They are everywhere. For some small populations I feel their entire country are studying in our universities Your entire argument is based on this student intake. So you see some Chinese students and you make this conclusion. What about the above? Address this please.

5. Tie above together and prove your conjecture.

You are so predictable. You hate Chinese because you are extreme right wing and extreme conservative type Muslim and you see on western news all negativity about China and you see how Chinese are hurting Muslims in the news so you are angry because you are young, emotional, and are still stupid. I was in your position once thinking I am super smart because I study structural engineering, Masters, then mathematics. I get that but you will learn just how common and small that is.

 

[@@@]

Sorry about destroying your arguments here. I will take this continued avoidance to address my questions as your admittance to your failure of conjectures and your defeat and apology to the thread.

1. Why do modern "Chinese built" Boeing planes have lower accident rate than older 100% western boeing planes?

2. Prove to me all Chinese students WANT to study in American university and definitely only there to receive superior education. Failing this, prove that all Chinese students would like to go if no obstacles.

3. Prove how Pakistani person like yourself studying and living in USA doesn't show that Pakistan is a shithole no one wants to be in and with inferior people and education. How come Pakistan doesn't make a single thing that is exported and used around the world?

4. Also explain why Russian students are in USA. Why UK students are in Australia. Why American/UK/Russian/Pakistani/Iranian students ARE in China too? I see plenty in Beijing. They are everywhere. For some small populations I feel their entire country are studying in our universities

5. Tie above together and prove your conjecture.

I lost you at #1. This 737 MAX plane is Chinese-built and that's the sole reason it crashed!! That should refute everything that comes out of you on this forum.