BN signed a contract for two more Type 053H3 frigates, including ex- Putian (pennant number 523)

[UKBengali]

Bascially impossible now...

China would choose to export the whole system, not just the hull.

BD next-gen frigate programme would see it only building the hull mostly. Most of the rest of the stuff would be imported.

 

[LKJ86]

BD next-gen frigate programme would see it only building the hull mostly. Most of the rest of the stuff would be imported.

Do you mean it is similar to what Indian, Myanmar, and others do?

I meant as in whole platform mix.

Not intraplatform mix.

Impossible, too.

 

[UKBengali]

Do you mean it is similar to what Indian, Myanmar, and others do?

Yes as BD lacks in tech as regards engines, sensors and missiles.
BD may have a need of 16 ships over the next two decades and whoever gets the contract will earn many billions of US dollars.
Of course over the course of the long building programme the domestic input will naturally increase.

 

[Michael Corleone]

MN will remain weak due to tiny GDP(1/5th of that of BD and gap actually getting larger) and so BN can deal with them with things like the AW-159E helicopter that it has placed an order for two recently.

The big bully is India and Chinese frigate tech is perfect to provide the right balance of performance to price. I expect a Chinese design to come in at least 100 million US dollar cheaper per frigate than a Western design and supply will not be an issue in case of conflict with India.


@Avicenna & @Bilal9 - Your thoughts on this will be appreciated.

Yes exactly. On average it shouldn’t cost more than 400 million to build them on our local shipyards, actually I expect much less than that below 350million.
In my opinion, discussing Myanmar in relationship to our defense is a work in vain, our priorities is keeping our sea lane safe and only one navy that can challenge us with a blockade is India. Not Burma... so why are we even discussing what they have or not have compared to us. Our discussion should focus on what we have in comparison to India.

 

[UKBengali]

Yes exactly. On average it shouldn’t cost more than 400 million to build them on our local shipyards, actually I expect much less than that below 350million.
In my opinion, discussing Myanmar in relationship to our defense is a work in vain, our priorities is keeping our sea lane safe and only one navy that can challenge us with a blockade is India. Not Burma... so why are we even discussing what they have or not have compared to us. Our discussion should focus on what we have in comparison to India.

Exactly.

 

[LKJ86]

Yes as BD lacks in tech as regards engines, sensors and missiles.
BD may have a need of 16 ships over the next two decades and whoever gets the contract will earn many billions of US dollars.
Of course over the course of the long building programme the domestic input will naturally increase.

It would be a good choice for BD.

 

[Avicenna]

Do you mean it is similar to what Indian, Myanmar, and others do?


Impossible, too.

Why impossible?

 

[Viet]

Yes as BD lacks in tech as regards engines, sensors and missiles.
BD may have a need of 16 ships over the next two decades and whoever gets the contract will earn many billions of US dollars.
Of course over the course of the long building programme the domestic input will naturally increase.

Seriously, I question why you buy so much chinese military hardware, and many of them are second hand decade old stuffs?

 

[UKBengali]

Seriously, I question why you buy so much chinese military hardware, and many of them are second hand decade old stuffs?

BD actually wants a large and really powerful Navy - credible reports say the plan is to build up to 16 frigates by 2040.

The problem is that it wants to build all these frigates in BD and increase local content over time and so needs stop-gap ships in the short-term.

Chinese warship technology is nearing world-class levels and BD needs a supplier that is cost-effective but also have good tech and reliable at the same time against India. West cannot be trusted over India and China is the best choice here.

I do not think that China will eventually partner with BD for all 16 frigates but more likely 8(up to 2030) and the rest in partnership with Turkey as BD wants to not put all it's eggs on the Chinese basket.

 

[Viet]

BD actually wants a large and really powerful Navy - credible reports say the plan is to build up to 16 frigates by 2040.

The problem is that it wants to build all these frigates in BD and increase local content over time and so needs stop-gap ships in the short-term.

Chinese warship technology is nearing world-class levels and BD needs a supplier that is cost-effective but also have good tech and reliable at the same time against India. West cannot be trusted over India and China is the best choice here.

I do not think that China will eventually partner with BD for all 16 frigates but more likely 8(up to 2030) and the rest in partnership with Turkey as BD wants to not put all it's eggs on the Chinese basket.

Ok understood
However chinese warships and weapons systems are unproven, untested. You buy Blackbox. If they are new, maybe ok now after endless try and error but why buy 20 or 30 year old submarine or frigate?

 

[LKJ86]

Ok understood
However chinese warships and weapons systems are unproven, untested. You buy Blackbox. If they are new, maybe ok now after endless try and error but why buy 20 or 30 year old submarine or frigate?

Maybe our Vietnam friends would be familiar with this warship:

 

[Avicenna]

Maybe our Vietnam friends would be familiar with this warship:
View attachment 595739

LOL.

 

[tarpitz]

Seriously, I question why you buy so much chinese military hardware, and many of them are second hand decade old stuffs?

That’s how they modernized their navy.

 

[Bilal9]

Bascially impossible now...

China would choose to export the whole system, not just the hull.

I don't believe China's current shipbuilding assistance projects in Bangladeshi yards follow 'export the whole system' process. We license China's design and in some cases import initial ship plate components (Hardox plates if necessary).

This is how it works for Chinese-designed ships assembled in Bangladesh, such as LPC's and will also soon, for C13B (PLAN 056 class) corvettes. Chinese involvement is not needed after step 3 - unless Chinese sensors/weapons are integrated. In the latter case, Chinese consultants will be involved until step 8.

1. Chinese yard initially sends laser-cut, oxy-flame-cut or plasma-cut ship plates cut using CAD/CAM or manually derived measurements to Bangladeshi yard. Chinese fabrication experts may also be sent to Bangladeshi yards, some live locally year round and are employed by Bangladeshi private yards.
2. They may also send CAD/CAM files to Bangladeshi yards to cut ship plates locally, but I can only confirm this for local private yards who use AutoCAD, Solidworx etc. Public yards have probably adopted CAD/CAM sometime ago, but I cannot confirm this.
3. Ship Sub-assemblies are welded/assembled from the plates mentioned in step 1.
4. Once hull building is completed, engine, transmission, power transfer shafts/clutches and other structural items are integrated into the hull, as are fuel lines, electrical lines, generator facility etc. These can be for non-Chinese items. Most Chinese marine engines are pretty close copies of Japanese and German engines, such as Yanmar and MTU/Deutz etc. so integration does not pose a huge issue.
5. Sensor integration proceeds with specific arms/radar vendors assisting from their Thailand,HK and S'pore locations. For these sensor systems western vendors are typically/historically favored in Bangladesh Navy such as Kelvin-Hughes, Thales, Saab etc. Weapons systems are typically Chinese though so far, this may be because Bangladesh manufactures Chinese munition supplies and even missile systems locally.
6. Ship is floated on water with Superstructure (above deck structure) either wholly or partially completed. This is official start of the ship's life.
7. Superstructure work (comfort fittings/furniture in living/command quarters), complete seamless sensor/weapons integration and installation testing/calibration continues for a few more months.
8. Once superstructure is completed - all systems of ship is tested in open waters ('shakedown cruise') multiple times. In US parlance, this is called 'stretching the sea-legs' of a boat (ship). Any problems found will be resolved with relevant weapons or sensor vendors.

In the case of our New generation (NewGen) Frigate project, we will kick the game a notch higher, as far as I understand.

More close involvement in fabrication will be sought from overseas yards (whether WuChang, Damen in NL or yards like Fincantieri or French/Spanish yards) so that more modern shipbuilding practices are adopted in the Drydock, which itself will be drastically revamped to have better equipment like 200 ton gantry cranes, Laser ship plate cutting facility, new launch ramps, processes/facilities for manufacturing and assembling from sub-assemblies to cut down assembly time etc.

This is the reason it is taking so much time to start the new Frigate project. It is the start of a new process paradigm, not just slapping and welding together ship plates.

 

[Bilal9]

MN will remain weak due to tiny GDP(1/5th of that of BD and gap actually getting larger) and so BN can deal with them with things like the AW-159E helicopter that it has placed an order for two recently.

The big bully is India and Chinese frigate tech is perfect to provide the right balance of performance to price. I expect a Chinese design to come in at least 100 million US dollar cheaper per frigate than a Western design and supply will not be an issue in case of conflict with India.


@Avicenna & @Bilal9 - Your thoughts on this will be appreciated.

Well yes, Chinese designs are significantly cheaper than western choices. If you look closely - you will see that Bangladesh has followed Thai practices in Chinese frigate purchases in the past, as well as more recently.

Bangladesh, Myanmar and Thailand bought the following 053H1 and 053H2 frigates from China early on in the start of the 1990's.

• Bangladesh Navy [3]
  • F18 Osman (053H1): ex-PLAN #556 Xiangtan, sold to Bangladesh in 1989.
  • F15 Abu Bakar (053H2): ex-PLAN #535 Huangshi, sold to Bangladesh in 2013.
  • F17 Ali Haider (053H2): ex-PLAN #536 Wuhu, sold to Bangladesh in 2013.

• Myanmar Navy
  • F21 UMS Mahar Bandoola (053H1): ex-PLAN #557 Jishou, sold to Burmese in 2012.
  • F23 UMS Mahar Thiha Thura (053H1): ex-PLAN #554 Anshun, sold to Burmese in 2012.

• Royal Thai Navy [5]

• 455 HTMS Chao Phraya (053HT): Based on the Type 053H2 (Jianghu III), built for export in 1991 as 053T (T = Thailand).
• 456 HTMS Bangpakong (053HT): Same as above
• 457 HTMS Kraburi (053HT(H)): Improved 053HT-H design, built in 1992 for export. Helicopter deck + YJ-81 (C-801) SSM's.
• 458 HTMS Saiburi (053HT(H)): Same as above.

More recently - Thailand bought the improved and heavily modified 053-H3 designs (2XNaresuan class) with displacement of 3000 tons, this is definitely higher than our lead ship Bangabandhu class. These are (I'd posit) are very similar to the F22P designs acquired and fabricated in Pakistan. One thing to note is that engines, weapons and sensors (and placement choices in terms of superstructure) are of Western origin and vastly different in the case of these two countries.

HTMS Naresuan (2 bought from China then heavily modified) - China class 053H2G, see all the Western sensors and integrated weapons fitted as modifications to this Chinese vessel

MSI Defense Systems 30mm gun

The two secondary Chinese-built Type 76 twin 37mm dual-purpose gun systems (photo on top) that originally equipped the Naresuan class, were removed and replaced by the MSI Defense Systems 30mm DS30M Mark 2 (Seahawk A2) gun systems consisting of a 30mm Mark 44 Bushmaster II cannon on a fully automated mount with an off-mount electro-optical director (EOD) and with below deck control console. The gun has a rate of fire of approximately 650 rounds per minute in a maximum range of less than 3km in anti-aircraft role. Except the main naval gun, the ships are equipped with 2-4 MH2B heavy machine guns. The M2 has a maximum (effective) range of around 1,830m and a cyclical rate of fire of approximately 600 rounds per minute.

Mk.45 gun and VLS (32 Raytheon RIM 162 ESSM SAM)

PNS Zulfiquar F22P (3 acquired from Hudong-Zhonghua shipyard in China, one built locally), mostly with Chinese weapons systems as PN decided to keep weapons and sensors limited to Chinese ones except maybe the sonar.