BMD tested successfully

[amardeep mishra]

We get some low res short vids and pics about our missiles and still get ton of data out of them.
On the other hand Indians get so much more and yet they can't prove anything when asked

Thats what "you" think and "extrapolate"--doesnt necessarily mean it is correct.

 

[Mrc]

Ababeel video also proves nothing.

It proves that a missile with an enlarged warhead possibly carrying 4 warheads took off and landed on indian hearts and around 50 billion usd investment in s 400 and abm

 

[Safriz]

Thats what "you" think and "extrapolate"--doesnt necessarily mean it is correct.

You are free to do exactly the same.
Also we know what we are talking about. Do you?

 

[amardeep mishra]

Bingo.
You got that right.
Finally some Indian who came up with non refutable evidence.
Thermal skirt on Agni 4 has wire mesh which shows flexibility. Evidence of movable nozzle.
You have no idea how long I have waited for an Indian to come up with this which I observed long time ago.
All attempts of engaging Indians into decent well supported technical discussions end up in a mess.
Well done

Hi shaheen!
That is because unlike majority of indians here who perhaps are blinded by nationalistic fervour,I strictly go by published and verifiable engineering literature.I know some of what I ask is taken as an offense by majority of pakistanis but then again,as someone who staunchly believe in research and coming from one of the top colleges of my country--I will go by research papers,patents,established engineering capabilities to name a few.
My view is,one should go by engineering aspect of weapon system instead of indulging in petty nationalistic debates. Of course proof is something which a lot of pakistanis fail to produce--or worse take it as an offense!

You are free to do exactly the same.
Also we know what we are talking about. Do you?

of course shaheen missile,But then again,I back every bit of my claim with engineering facts,published scientific literature or even my own simulations!

 

[Safriz]

Hi shaheen!
That is because unlike majority of indians here who perhaps are blinded by nationalistic fervour,I strictly go by published and verifiable engineering literature.I know some of what I ask is taken as an offense by majority of pakistanis but then again,as someone who staunchly believe in research and coming from one of the top colleges of my country--I will go by research papers,patents,established engineering capabilities to name a few.
My view is,one should go by engineering aspect of weapon system instead of indulging in petty nationalistic debates. Of course proof is something which a lot of pakistanis fail to produce--or worse take it as an offense!


of course shaheen missile,But then again,I back every bit of my claim with engineering facts,published scientific literature or even my own simulations!

Anyway here is the evidence of flex nozzle on Agni-4
Note the wire mesh around the Exhaust nozzle holding the thermal Skirt.

 

[amardeep mishra]

Anyway here is the evidence of flex nozzle on Agni-4
Note the wire mesh around the Exhaust nozzle holding the thermal Skirt.

View attachment 376568

I must say you're a keen observer! To be honest,I myself never realized it that way. I knew it because it has been published here in a lot of forums,seminars and journals that agni-4 and 5 sport flex nozzles. This technology helps them to easily canisterize the missile. Of course now the main challenge is how do you keep the RCS tanks filled with toxic fuel and corrosive oxidizer all the time. Maybe pakistan hasnt run into these engineering challenges now,but they will definitely face them once they move a notch above to canisterization and SLBM.
@The Deterrent
What are your views on how is pakistan gonna tackle this issue of having to store liquid fuel into RCS tanks all the time should they embark on a SLBM program or even canisterization of lets say ababeel?

 

[Safriz]

Ababeel video also proves nothing.

Ignorants cannot be argued with logic , but here is a try.

Look at the top section of these missiles and tell me whats common between them?
MX MIRV

Minuteman MIRV

RS-24 Yars MIRV

Ababeel MIRV

 

[Armoured Division]

Ignorants cannot be argued with logic , but here is a try.

Look at the top section of these missiles and tell me whats common between them?
MX MIRV

Minuteman MIRV

RS-24 Yars MIRV

Ababeel MIRV

Just building a large RV is not proof of multiple MIRVs.

 

[Safriz]

Just building a large RV is not proof of multiple MIRVs.

Like i said, ignorants cannot be argued with logical evidence , but was worth a try.
large bi-conical RV is needed for MIRV as seen here.

Triangular RV cannot hold multiple warheads as seen on your Agni series.

 

[Armoured Division]

Like i said, ignorants cannot be argued with logical evidence , but was worth a try.
large bi-conical RV is needed for MIRV as seen here.

Triangular RV cannot hold multiple warheads as seen on your Agni series.

Zero proof that Pakistan has mirv as no video or photo of mirv released.
Pakistan cannot even launch a 5 kg satellite let alone build mirv.

 

[Safriz]

Zero proof that Pakistan has mirv as no video or photo of mirv released.
Pakistan cannot even launch a 5 kg satellite let alone build mirv.

You Indians like to boast relentlessly about your ISRO and their satellites?
But let me tell you that launching a missile and nuclear weapon are two entirely different things.
While launching a satellite there is no urgency and not much restriction of launch vehicle weight and size. Mobility is not even needed.
You can take a whole week to fuel and prepare your rocket which can be 50 meters tall , weigh a thousand tons and many many meters wide and there will be no problems.
Look at your own GSLV mark 3 payload to weight and size ratio.
Its 640 tons and can carry only 10 tons . thats a ratio of 64 ton of rocket per ton payload? to 600 Km altitude.

How much Agni-5 weighs? 50 Tons? and it carries 1.5 tons payload.
thats 33.3 tons of Missile per ton of payload or warhead?
So you see the difference between a staellite launch vehicle and a missile?

One needs to be very compact and ready in minutes, the other needs none of that.
And thats just one difference in addition to many.

So its not the same. Both are different technologies. If a country can launch satellites doesnt automatically means they are good at making missiles. You should see Iranian crappy missiles,and they are expert at launching satellites.

 

[Armoured Division]

You Indians like to boast relentlessly about your ISRO and their satellites?
But let me tell you that launching a missile and nuclear weapon are two entirely different things.
While launching a satellite there is no urgency and not much restriction of launch vehicle weight and size. Mobility is not even needed.
You can take a whole week to fuel and prepare your rocket which can be 50 meters tall , weigh a thousand tons and many many meters wide and there will be no problems.
Look at your own GSLV mark 3 payload to weight and size ratio.
Its 640 tons and can carry only 10 tons . thats a ratio of 64 ton of rocket per ton payload? to 600 Km altitude.

How much Agni-5 weighs? 50 Tons? and it carries 1.5 tons payload.
thats 33.3 tons of Missile per ton of payload or warhead?
So you see the difference between a staellite launch vehicle and a missile?

One needs to be very compact and ready in minutes, the other needs none of that.
And thats just one difference in addition to many.

So its not the same. Both are different technologies. If a country can launch satellites doesnt automatically means they are good at making missiles. You should see Iranian crappy missiles,and they are expert at launching satellites.

So you admit that those who cannot build a simple satellite launcher cannot build missiles.

 

[Safriz]

And country which cannot build toilets can stop ballistic missiles... manouvering ones... grow up kiddo

Pakistan is not increasing range of their missiles beyond a certain limit because speed is more important for us.
Ballistic missile defence system is heavily reliant on detection and tracking radars, and radars' have limits.
Even the great S-400 cannot track anything flying above speeds of Mach 14 and we don't know how good are Indian radars' incorporated with this ABM system.
Can they even detect Shaheen-3 sized small warheads?
If so , from what range?
How fast a target they can track?

Just showing a 4 second video of a souped up prithvi means nothing as there is so much more an ABM relies upon.

 

[amardeep mishra]

Triangular RV cannot hold multiple warheads as seen on your Agni series.

Hi shaheen!
There is nothing known as triangular RV. It is either conical or biconical. I guess in all those pictures you were referring to the nose cone, covering the MIRVs. This nose cone has to face dynamic pressure in atmospheric phase of the flight but it is shed as soon as all the motors are cut off and the bus is clearing apogee. The nose cone of payload fairing doesn't have to withstand the immense heat of re entry. It is what sits inside actually faces that.
As for the ababeel though, they've tested the aerodynamic performance of the enhanced payload fairing section that would one day hoist MIRVs.
As far as Agnis are concerned, a 2m dia Agni 5 can indeed take as many as 4 MIRVs but this modification would render it an altogether a new missile. And that's what is Agni 6 for you.

You Indians like to boast relentlessly about your ISRO and their satellites?
But let me tell you that launching a missile and nuclear weapon are two entirely different things.
While launching a satellite there is no urgency and not much restriction of launch vehicle weight and size. Mobility is not even needed.
You can take a whole week to fuel and prepare your rocket which can be 50 meters tall , weigh a thousand tons and many many meters wide and there will be no problems.
Look at your own GSLV mark 3 payload to weight and size ratio.
Its 640 tons and can carry only 10 tons . thats a ratio of 64 ton of rocket per ton payload? to 600 Km altitude.

How much Agni-5 weighs? 50 Tons? and it carries 1.5 tons payload.
thats 33.3 tons of Missile per ton of payload or warhead?
So you see the difference between a staellite launch vehicle and a missile?

One needs to be very compact and ready in minutes, the other needs none of that.
And thats just one difference in addition to many.

So its not the same. Both are different technologies. If a country can launch satellites doesnt automatically means they are good at making missiles. You should see Iranian crappy missiles,and they are expert at launching satellites.

I quite agree with most of what you've written above but capability to inject multiple satellites into distinct precise orbits from a single bus is similar to MIRV capability if not exactly same.
As for efficiency of GSLV MK3, it'll increase by a huge margin once semi cryogenic engine development is commented at LPSC mahendragiri. ISRO plans to replace vikas engine with SCE200(with 2000kN thrust) . This will boost the vehicle capacity to ferry 6t to GTO and roughly 12t to LEO.
There is then a bigger cryo engine in development as well(600kN) .the plan is to augment the capacity of rocket in steps. Ultimately they'll have a vehicle with something like 8-10t to GTO and roughly double that to LEO.

 

[Mrc]

Hi
Why my comments have suddenly started to need modrator approval?


Those "Losers" have kept stopping you in the tracks for the last 70 years and still are.


Pakistan is not increasing range of their missiles beyond a certain limit because speed is more important for us.
Ballistic missile defence system is heavily reliant on detection and tracking radars, and radars' have limits.
Even the great S-400 cannot track anything flying above speeds of Mach 14 and we don't know how good are Indian radars' incorporated with this ABM system.
Can they even detect Shaheen-3 sized small warheads?
If so , from what range?
How fast a target they can track?

Just showing a 4 second video of a souped up prithvi means nothing as there is so much more an ABM relies upon.

Just using lofted trajectory shud b more than enough for this ABM.. i m sure on lofted trajectory shaheen 2 can achieve mach 20 even higher reentry speed.even shaheen 1 a can go beyond mach 15.. slow down for last 60 km or so is not important ... if they fail to track war head till re re entry ... thats only little they can do in last 20 seconds.... range would be reduced ... but than it dont have to go a very long way to reach delhi any way...

We should work on shaheen 4 and future ranges shud b of lofted trajectory not of ballistic one

Total flight time for shaheen 3 from eastern border to delhi in lofted trajectory has been calculated to b 3 minutes from take off to "landing"....i m not sure of reentry speed on lofted trajectory