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Blue Homeland (Mavi Vatan)

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Oh shit, here we go again.

Turkiye does not have any maritime jurisdiction conflicts with Egypt, Israel, Libya, Lebanon and Syria. Turkiye's dispute is related to Greece regime's maximalist approach.

While their paid trolls here cry as UNCLOS 1982, what they are actually advocating is a unilateral imposition, completely contrary to the spirit of the treaty to which they are a party. It imposes the maximum limits specified in the treaty for the high seas as a minimum demand.

In Article 121 of the 1982 UNCLOS, although islands have the right to the Continental Shelf-Exclusive Economic Zone in the islands regime, the principle of "land dominates the sea" is essential in the principle of equitable sharing. Another island in front of the mainland cannot block the Turkiye-Libya COAST projection and usurp its rights.

Trying to exclude TR from the Eastern Mediterranean by accepting the Crete, Kerpe, Rhodes and Meis line as the relevant shore is a preposterous policy example.

The Greek regime's claiming rights based on the principle of distance to a line by taking the center lines as a basis and assuming these islands as "MAINLAND" has no equivalent in international maritime law.

The coastal characteristics of each country are different. Ignoring Turkiyey's inland waters and baselines, ignoring Turkiye's exclusive sovereignty, ignoring the legal regime, ignoring sovereign maritime jurisdiction areas, ignoring Turkiye's gulfs by showing territorial waters from the bottom of the coast.
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When Turkiye's inland waters and territorial waters area are determined according to straight baselines as follows, the island of Meis is naturally part of Turkish territorial waters. The realities of the Law of the Seas cannot be bypassed by Greece's exaggerated, noisy and maximalist demands.
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The Greek regime is preparing the ground to turn a struggle against our national economic and legitimate interests into a diplomatic crisis. While Greece demands CW/EEZ on Meis Island, it has signed a contrary agreement with Italy in the Ionian Sea jurisdiction limitation agreement, as if refuting its own theses.

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The Greek side accepted coordinates that gave limited influence to Greek islands such as Diapontian (70%) and Strofades (32%), which are located immediately above Corfu.

While this approach, which gives limited influence to islands in the delimitation of maritime jurisdictions, should set a precedent for delimitation agreements in the Aegean and Eastern Mediterranean, the spoiled Greek regime has a different approach regarding the island of Kastellorizo.

Imposing on Albania and Turkiye the concessions that it could not impose on Italy is a clear proof of the maximalism of the Greek regime.

After the Greek parliament passed a bill to increase the territorial waters in the Ionian Sea from 6 to 12 miles, the issue came up again in Albania and the current agreement was rejected by the Albanian Constitutional Court. Albania thus started the Hague process. The Court pointed out that the agreement does not comply with the principle of "equity" required by UNCLOS in the determination of maritime jurisdiction, and that the principle of "equity" can be applied not only in the delimitation of the continental shelf and EEZ, but also in the division of territorial waters of countries whose coasts are adjacent or opposite, and recalled Article 15 of the convention. Accordingly, under the concept of "special circumstances", situations such as the length and shape of the coast, the presence and nature of islands or rock masses were referred to. Taking into account the aforementioned concept of "special circumstances" and the principle of "equity", the court explained that the Albanian side considered that the delimitation of the demarcation line between Albania and Greece should take into account the characteristics of both countries and, in particular, the presence of islands or rock masses in the maritime zones subject to delimitation.

In a nutshell, The maximalist policy of the Greek regime is in conflict not only with Turkiye but also with other riparian countries Libya and Albania. In fact, it is also in conflict with Italy, but it had to backtrack on that agreement because it could not afford it. However, this step back continues to be harshly criticized by the opposition in Greek politics.

Turkiye has the longest coastline in the Eastern Mediterranean with 2300 km. It is unacceptable for the Greek-Cyprus Greek duo to make agreements based on the midline line by violating the principle of "equity" and the rights of Turkiye and the Turkish Cypriots in the determination of maritime jurisdiction areas. The maximalist demands of the Greek regime, which itself erodes the principle of equitable delimitation, which is the basic rule in the delimitation of maritime jurisdiction, cannot be ignored, and the maritime jurisdiction claims it raises are contrary to international law and have no equivalent in international law. Greece demands continental shelf and exclusive economic zone rights for all small and large islands, and by using the tiny 10 km2 Meis Island, it tries to squeeze Turkiye, a landlocked country with a coast of 2280 km to the Mediterranean Sea, into its territorial waters and seize Turkiye's rights. This is the most maximalist policy in the world with no precedent in the world.

It is evident from the relevant judicial and arbitral decisions that in any delimitation process, there is a list of equitable principles from which one can select the principles that are appropriate to the situation.The principle that stands out from the decisions is the principle of "supremacy of geography". The concept of geography refers to the geography of the mainland in the area subject to delimitation between 2 countries.

The most important geographical element is the length of the mainland coast. This principle has been recognized by the ICJ: "there can be no question of reshaping geography" in the North Sea Cases decision.


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Again: In 1982 UNCLOS Article 121, although islands have Continental Shelf-Exclusive Economic Zone rights in the islands regime, the principle of "land dominates the sea" is essential in the principle of equitable sharing. Another island in front of the mainland cannot block the Turkiye-Libya COAST projection and usurp its rights.

You are not even aware of the content of the agreements you defend. Turcophobic, and authoritarian-dictator, erdogan etc. you keep writing shit using a few keywords. Improve yourself. Stupidity is not a fate but a choice. Get rid of stupidity.
 
Fortunately not all Greeks are as blind as these idiot trolls. Let me give you a somewhat realistic projection from the Greek press.



The author asks simple question: "Why is our country wasting its diplomatic capital trying to undo the gains of the Turkish-Libyan Memorandum, instead of investing it in gaining geopolitical advantage and solving the Cyprus problem and other problems with Turkiye?"

- "We signed an EEZ agreement with Italy to show the international community that we respect international law, but in that agreement we had to recognize that Othonoi, an island with almost the same data as Meis, does not have full influence on the formation of the EEZ."

- "It was not long before the Turkish Foreign Minister mocked us and congratulated us, saying: "We are offering Greece a similar arrangement on the same terms as Italy". Then we signed the Greek-Egyptian EEZ agreement to abrogate the Turkish-Libyan Memorandum of Understanding."

- "But in our hasty agreement with Egypt, we also created other gray areas on the delimitation of the Turkish-Libyan EEZ (Exclusive Economic Zone) that will be brought to the table whenever there is an important discussion."

- "We also accepted that Crete does not have full influence in the formation of the EEZ, and of course in the agreement with Egypt, we accepted Egypt's request not to include the potential Greek EEZ east of the 28th Meridian in order not to anger Turkiye."

- "But why did Turkiye manage to sign a Memorandum of Understanding on the EEZ with Libya's interim but internationally recognized government?

Turkiye took advantage of the deadlock in the Tripoli government as Haftar's mercenary troops, backed by Russia and Egypt, besieged the capital."

- "They signed the "Memorandum of Understanding on Defense Cooperation", which provided military aid and saved the government, and they signed the agreement on maritime zones. I also recall that Libya appealed to The Hague with both Malta and Tunisia and they demarcated the EEZ."

- "Here is the big question that needs to be answered: Why did our country, which since the end of 2011 has reserved maritime zones south of Crete for itself, fail to sign an agreement with Libya until November 2019, or even take the two countries to the International Court of Justice in The Hague?"

- "I remind you that Gaddafi strongly protested against Greece's unilateral declaration of the EEZ and did not accept, as he did mainly with Malta and Tunisia, that only the basic principle of the law of the sea and the median line should be applied for delimitation."

- "Successive Greek governments have not seriously recognized the dangers of indifference towards Libya, torn apart by the civil war that followed. The indifference is so great that since 2013 until today our country does not even have a diplomatic mission in Tripoli."

- "For this failure and for this idleness, we are paying the price for the arrogance of the "strong Greece" rhetoric. Turkiye took advantage of this attitude of our country to tie Libya to its locomotive and now we are rushing to put out the fires."

- He ends his words as: The recent trip of the Greek Foreign Minister to Libya illustrates the predicament we are in and the government needs to recognize this."

Let me reply to the author here. Your government has nothing to realize. Instead, it is a much more comfortable political approach for them to make lyrical discourses but no rational politics; and herd their voters like sheep while demolishing all the Greek theses consistencies one by one.
 
Greece is not archipelagic State .. and Greek Islands can not generate EEZ and can not block Turkish mainland

--
archipelagic State or not
-- based on the principle of equity
-- the superiority of the mainland over the islands
-- the geographical realities


wth is stupid Greek claim ?
10 km2 tiny Island which is 580 km away from Greek mainland and just 2 km away from Turkish mainland can not generate EEZ and can not block 783.562 km² Turkish mainland

Greek claims dont have any precedent in the world ... still Greeks dreaming with trash Seville map which has no any value


If Malta had defended the stupid Greek claim, half of the Central Mediterranean should belong to Malta

However, the area falling to Malta by the International Court of Justice and other treaties, based on the principle of equity and proportionality of customary international law, the superiority of the mainland over the islands, and the geographical realities, is indicated in green below

RED : stupid Greek claim
GREEN : Actual EEZ of MALTA

1670478148135.png






The British Island of Jersey on the French Continental Shelf
If The UK had defended the stupid Greek claim, the French Continental Shelf should belong to The UK

In the France-England EEZ Treaty, the British Isles were not granted maritime jurisdiction.

In this case, it is necessary to ask France; If you support the Greek islands to be a maritime jurisdiction area as much as the mainland, then why don't you accept that England's own islands in front of the French coast should be given as much jurisdiction as the mainland?

1670478203783.png

1670478221817.png
 
Turks, I understand that you want to change the meaning of Mavi Vatan, which is Turkey's expansionism, and turn it into the issue of the illegal Turkish-Libyan agreement, but I will not bite.

Coming back to the topic of the thread, I would like to point out some issues.

The so-called Turkish Mavi Vatan is offensive through a simple juxtaposition to the map. Such a hypothetical, intolerable to Greece and Cyprus, Turkish territorial waters would “engulf” not only the sea waters, but hundreds of Greek islands and almost the entire Cypriot EEZ!

1670481236581.png
1670481264568.png


As you see the centre and eastern Greek islands as well as the sea area of 6 miles, are under Turkish "domination" (blue color).
Turkish map does not separate small or large islands, it considers everything Turkish, including their territorial waters.

If it didn't want expansion, it would show a map like the one below.

1670481685809.png


But Turkey didn't, because he wants to invade Greece, and occupy Greek islands.
Therefore, Greece condemn the Turkish strategic plans for expansion even by associating the “Mavi Vatan” with Nazi's Germany’s “Lebensraum”!
 
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Greek claims dont have any precedent in the world

Only stupid Greek claim can give EEZ to tiny MEIS Island ( 10 km2 ) to block Turkish Mainland which has the longest coastline in the Eastern Mediterranean with 2.280 km

10 km2 MEIS Island is 580 km away from Greek Mainland
but just 2 km away from Turkish Mainland

Islands can not block Mainland ..... Its international law
-- archipelagic State or not
-- based on the principle of equity
-- the superiority of the mainland over the islands
-- the geographical realities



MAVI VATAN is fair
1670489223874.png




Trash Seville Map as like Nazi's Germany’s “Lebensraum
1670488443083.png
 
While their paid trolls here cry
I didn't expect this nonsense from you.

Anyway,we've talked again and again about this. We always end up on the same conclusion: Turks don't accept our arguements and evidence,we don't accept your narration and we both get MMM-E going like "I say again..." in a never-ending loop. Look at him,he started the c/p already.
 
One of the turkish arguments that the doctrine of Mavi Vatan is the answer to ...... "Map of Seville". The famous map of Seville(only to the Turkey), which a lot of fuss has been made about in the media recently, is a study by a professor from the university of the same name in 2003.
On this map, he showed the boundaries of the sea zones of European countries in the Mediterranean, depicts the delimitation of the continental shelf of Greece and Cyprus, according to the provisions of the Law of the Sea(UNCLOS).
And I repeat again: Greece never invoked this map.
Turkey uses this argument for a simple reason: because is trying to forget that one of the conditions for its accession to the EU is its obligation to ratify UNCLOS.

UNCLOS simply means the following:


1- In order to establish EEZ, Initial talks between the two states based on the basis of reciprocity and good neighborliness.

2- If the talks fail, then they continue based on the Law of the Sea(UNCLOS).

3- If a country disagree or does not accept the Law of the Sea, then both they go to International Courts.

4- If a country does not even accept the jurisdiction of the International Courts, then it threatens, invades, bullying and act as the troublemaker of the region.

Guess which country is this as regards the Eastern Mediterranean?

1670495963455.jpeg
 
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One of the turkish arguments that the doctrine of Mavi Vatan is the answer to ...... "Map of Seville". The famous map of Seville(only to the Turkey), which a lot of fuss has been made about in the media recently, is a study by a professor from the university of the same name in 2003.
On this map, he showed the boundaries of the sea zones of European countries in the Mediterranean, depicts the delimitation of the continental shelf of Greece and Cyprus, according to the provisions of the Law of the Sea(UNCLOS).
And I repeat again: Greece never invoked this map.
Turkey uses this argument for a simple reason: because is trying to forget that one of the conditions for its accession to the EU is its obligation to ratify UNCLOS.

UNCLOS simply means the following:


1- In order to establish EEZ, Initial talks between the two states based on the basis of reciprocity and good neighborliness.

2- If the talks fail, then they continue based on the Law of the Sea(UNCLOS).

3- If a country disagree or does not accept the Law of the Sea, then both they go to International Courts.

4- If a country does not even accept the jurisdiction of the International Courts, then it threatens, invades, bullying and act as the troublemaker of the region.

Guess which country is this as regards the Eastern Mediterranean?
Exactly. The problem is Turkish members completely ignore that and go with the official Turkish government narration. We've even debated the islands demilitarisation subject to the core,showed them why their government's arguements are completely baseless and invalid,but yet we have the same narration again and again,as if we've said nothing.

It's like they hit reset and go from the beginning.


Anyway,the problem is that the AKP government is using the Western half of Libya,to create a situation against Greece. And the irony is that,they claim for the Tripoli government's EEZ,parts that are on the Tobruk government's side!

Cyrenaica is the one south of Greece,but Tripolitania is claiming that part as EEZ.

The UN,EU,USA and others are clear on the matter: You can't have such deals when the country is still in civil war.

GNA dogs are barking at Greece now,prodded by Erdogan and Cavusoglu. And where? Right under Crete.
 
Greek trolls again in action with c/p ..
They can not show even one precedent in the world which is similar to stupid Greek claim


International law is so clear ... Islands can not block Mainland
-- archipelagic State or not
-- based on the principle of equity
-- the superiority of the mainland over the islands
-- the geographical realities



MALTA could not block İtalian mainland
The British Island of Jersey could not block French mainland
and many more



Greece dreaming about hiding behind USA-France to steal oil/gas reserves and 150.000 km2 of area from the Turks in the Eastern Mediterranean

but Turkiye is not weak Iraq or Syria or Libya or Mali
don't dream in vain, you can't even get 1km2 from MAVI VATAN
 
Greek trolls again in action with c/p ..
They can not show even one precedent in the world which is similar to stupid Greek claim
Everything we show you,you immidiately discard it. We've showed you articles,laws,quotes,everything legal according to international law,but to you it's all "naaah".

If anything,Turkey's the one who's acting weird. First you use equidistance to settle the EEZ with the Soviet Union in the Black Sea,then you don't recognize UNCLOS in the Aegean and Eastern Mediterranean. You talk about "International Law",but you don't respect the Law of the Seas. You keep mumbling about "Sevilla Map no legitimacy",but you don't realize that the Sevilla Map shows the boundaries of Europe's EEZ according to International Law.

Just look at the sources. THE SOURCES at the bottom of the photo

EuBEycGVcAA_8MM.jpg



But it's not really about legitimacy,is it? It's not really about International Law or valid arguements. It's not about rights.

It's about Turkey having their share. And when arguements and International Law don't agree with Turkey's policies,then they're no longer valid for Erdogan and Cavusoglu. In the end,it always boils down to this:

"Turkiye will protect its interests".
 
We dont care about bandit Countries and their law of the jungle who illegally attacked-invaded İraq,Syria,Libya,Mali,etc to steal their reserves

USA-France,etc are bandit countries and they dont know what about international law
If you have power , then you can attack weak countries to steal their reserves

The EU countries are full of thieves who killed over 100 million people in American,African,Asian,Australian Continents to steal their reserves in the last 500 years


If Turkiye was a weak country, USA-The EU would have already stolen Turkiye's legal rights in the Eastern Mediterranean

If Turkiye was a weak country, USA-The EU would have already destroyed Turkiye's territorial integrity over PKK/YPG Terror organizations




In the France-England EEZ Treaty, the British Islands were not granted maritime jurisdiction.

In this case, it is necessary to ask France; If you support the Greek islands to be a maritime jurisdiction area as much as the mainland, then why don't you accept that England's own islands in front of the French coast should be given as much jurisdiction as the mainland?

look at the map ... same situation with Greek Kastellarizo Island
and The British Island of Jersey could not block French mainland
1670499587627.png




and UNCLOS doesnt say that Islands can block Mainland
only according to stupid Greek claim based on trash Seville Map which says Islands block Mainland ..... No any legal validity and No any precedent in the world


show us even one same precedent in the world which is similar to stupid Greek claim
but Greeks can not show it ...
 
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We dont care about bandit Countries and their law of the jungle who illegally attacked-invaded İraq,Syria,Libya,Mali,etc to steal their reserves
Eh,you don't care about this,you don't care about that,in the end if the UN,EU and USA do something against you and change their entire position on Turkey,your government will start complaining again.

And Erdogan will start trying to be friends with everyone.

This nonsense didn't exist back in the Kemalist days. Yes,there were tensions,but there were limits. And when the big guys mediated between us and said "no",we both backed down. The Americans would come and say "Greece,stop talking about Turkey now and you Turkey,back off and take the fleet from there" and we would go back to normal.

They tried to keep the balance in the Aegean by selling or not,specific weapons systems.

Now,you have this government following a crazy foreign policy,saying this like "we don't care". Eventually,you will care. If they impose heavy sanctions on you,you will care. If they economy is ruined,you will care. If Incirlik base is abandoned,you will care.

The rest of your trash,I won't even bother to talk about. It's the same stuff you repeat on every thread.

Let's see how things will go if Kilicdaroglu or Aksener is elected.
 
This nonsense didn't exist back in the Kemalist days. Yes,there were tensions,but there were limits. And when the big guys mediated between us and said "no",we both backed down. The Americans would come and say "Greece,stop talking about Turkey now and you Turkey,back off and take the fleet from there" and we would go back to normal.


MUSTAFA KEMAL ATATURK kicked Greece in 1922
MAVI VATAN doctrine was created by the Kemalists

And Leftist - Kemalist BULENT ECEVIT ordered the Turkish Armed Forces in 1974 for Cyprus peace operation


Turks dont care about Americans as like 1974 , we did it "" Cyprus peace operation ""
and USA has started arms embargo on Turkiye in 1975

RESULT : Turkiye has started developing its own defense industry in 1975
( ASELSAN , HAVELSAN , ROKETSAN , TAI , TEI , STM , TUBITAK-SAGE and many more were established after American arms embargo on Turkiye in 1975 )

Thanks to American arms embargo on Turkiye in 1975 ... now Turkiye has great defense Industry


as like 2 Turkish military operations against USA backed PKK/YPG Terrorists in Syria
bye bye American-French dream called ROJAVA ....

Nobody can steal our MAVI VATAN
Nobody can destroy Turkiye's territorial integrity



They tried to keep the balance in the Aegean by selling or not,specific weapons systems.

Even only Turkish missiles will be enough for victory against Hellenic Navy
3+1 FDI Frigates are waste money and will be destroyed within 24 hours in a conflict

this is not 1996 , this is 2022
Now Turkiye has its own great defense industry to develop even RAMJET powered supersonic anti-ship Missile and hypersonic ( up to mach 5 ) Anti-Ship Ballistic Missile

even I am not talking about SOM , ATMACA , CAKIR , TRLG-230 , KGK-LR , TOLUN-IIR , KUZGUN-TJ , AKBABA Missiles and long range IIR guided Bombs to hit enemy Warships

also 200 km KARGI and SIMSEK Kamikaze Drones with E/O Camera to hit Radars of enemy Warships

also 250+ Turkish TB-2 , ANKA , AKSUNGUR , AKINCI UCAVs to attack on enemy Warships

and 500 HARPOON , SLAM-ER , HARM Missiles


Turkiye is a big boy and nobody can change balance of power in the Aegean




and 24 Rafales can not change balance of power in the Aegean

-- Turkiye has S400 and SIPER Air Defense Systems to block Aegean
-- 235+ F-16s in service
-- Turkiye has started modernize F-16s with its own systems .. ( block70 standard )
-- KIZILELMA unmanned stealth Fighter Jet ... ( mass production start in 2023 )
-- HURJET enter service in 2025
-- Final US defence policy bill removes curbs on 40 new F-16V sale to Turkiye
-- Eurofighter Typhoon from The UK .. on agenda
-- BORA , TAYFUN , KARA-ATMACA , SOM , CENK , GEZGIN Ballistic and Cruise Missiles to hit even Rafales in Jet Hangars at Tanagra Air Base

-- TAI TISU unmanned Fighter Jet ... ( first flight in 2023 )
and TAI TFX Fighter Jet ... ( first flight in 2024 .... enter service in 2028 )

today or future ... if Turkiye want
Hellenic Air Force can not cross even 25th meridian in the Aegean



The rest of your trash,I won't even bother to talk about

Reality is
Greece is a loser since 1922 , again in 1974 and again in 1996
know your place or we will show your place as like 1922 , 1974 and 1996



The Turkish Foreign Minister MEVLUT CAVUSOGLU ... 06.12.2022

Either Greece takes a step back and abides by agreements, or we will do what is necessary​


"If Athens doesn’t want peace, Ankara will do whatever is necessary,"

 
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Turkish EEZ is based on solid arguments with example like in EU countries. Greece example is based on trolling and demagoguery.
 
Even only Turkish missiles will be enough for victory against Hellenic Navy
3+1 FDI Frigates are waste money and will be destroyed within 24 hours in a conflict
What does that EVEN HAVE TO DO WITH WHAT I'M TELLING YOU.

Your missiles and your missiles and your fantasies. Your fantasies. Every day here,we have MMM-E talking about his missiles and his star destroyers.

The Turkish Foreign Minister MEVLUT CAVUSOGLU ... 06.12.2022

Either Greece takes a step back and abides by agreements, or we will do what is necessary​

Greek Prime Minister KONSTANTINOS MITSOTAKIS

We await in the day,those who say they will come at night

Hadi,bebek! Little baby MMM-E cabatli started his propaganda rants just after coming back from a ban.

-- Turkiye has S400 and SIPER Air Defense Systems to block Aegean
-- 235+ F-16s in service
-- Turkiye has started modernize F-16s with its own systems .. ( block70 standard )
-- KIZILELMA unmanned stealth Fighter Jet ... ( mass production start in 2023 )
-- HURJET enter service in 2025
-- Final US defence policy bill removes curbs on 40 new F-16V sale to Turkiye
-- Eurofighter Typhoon from The UK .. on agenda
-- BORA , TAYFUN , KARA-ATMACA , SOM , CENK , GEZGIN Ballistic and Cruise Missiles to hit even Rafales in Jet Hangars at Tanagra Air Base

-- TAI TISU unmanned Fighter Jet ... ( first flight in 2023 )
and TAI TFX Fighter Jet ... ( first flight in 2024 .... enter service in 2028 )

Ne Siper ya?
Ne S-400? It's shut down.
Ne 235+ F-16s in service? You barely have half in active service right now,due to spare parts shortages.
Ne modernization? Amerika said yok. You need permission and they haven't given you permission yet.
Ne Kizelelma? It's still not flying! It flew accidentally for a few seconds because of the speed.
Kim o HURJET? 2025?
Final US defence policy bill removes curbs? Not so fast! It hasn't removed any curbs yet. You still have to go through Congress and a lot of bureaucracy.
Nerede Eurofighter? What agenda? There's not even a memorandum,let alone a deal.
Bora,Tayfun,KARA-ATMACA etc etc are all FUTURE projects. Even the Tayfun has a lot of stages to go through,until it can mass produced and put into service.

TAI TISU first flight 2023? Maybe and if?

TFX lol


Hadi bebek,hadi git,hadi go play with your toy soldiers.

Turkish EEZ is based on solid arguments with example like in EU countries. Greece example is based on trolling and demagoguery.
Yeah sure,the arch-troll talks about "trolling"....if anything,your claimed EEZ is not recognized by International Law,by the UN,by the EU,by almost nobody.
 
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