BloodBath in India Mob Lynch 2 Hindu Saints #IkWariFirModi

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Right attitude to have.

As I stated earlier, the same logic on FB, Twitter, Youtube cannot apply on a forum, esp one so important as this.

So much precious time gets wasted and important topics derailed as a result of trolling from Indians. There was a reason a heavy handed approach was needed post 27 Feb, and it should still be in effect.

I say this so we can discuss important issues which relate to Pakistan, without constant interruptions.

 

[Nilgiri]

If the your typical mullah in Pakistan went to Istanbul

You might like this one osmanali posted in joke thread heh:

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/joke.797/page-160#post-12244991

 

[Yankee-stani]

Without them there would have been no "deals" because likes of Maudadudi would have been running the country. At least we did not end up like Taliban Emirate in Afghanistan.

I don't understand why Maudadudi is held In high regards when he despised Pakistan as a state then again deep confusion on society there is no true left and right wing ideology in Pakistani politics it's just how much you continually loot the nation and peddle populism to distract the masses

Yah but Ataturk and Tito were very measured on violence part of it. They were strict and harsh on their national vision....but they didnt unleash the truly nasty stuff that erodes (long term given ppl memories) what they were trying to accomplish.

So they get lot higher marks from me, because they were able to do net positive on it rather than have a "de-name-ification" afterwards and counter purges afterwards etc etc because of the hurt done by say Mao, Stalin.

Nasser I honestly dont know much about to comment there though. I don't think he was super significant to the way Egypt has moulded itself today. That is also important, what is the actual practical relevance long term to what the noted upstream directioneer did....because good intents are just intents in the end without real permeation and real grounded inertia etc...

Criticize Mao is acceptable I agree loads of his policies did hurt China but at positives outweigh the negatives in 1 defeating Japanese imperialists 2 not becoming a Soviet puppet stage like Mongolia,or Other Eastern bloc states 3 leading the stage for Deng to easily pass reforms despite ideological differences because under Mao a new political and economic system was built negatives was the idiotic political struggles during the Cultural Revolution Mao wasnt a genius in economics Deng gets the credit for that but at political control Mao wins for that As for Stalin was winning WW2,industrial growth and development and turning Soviet Union from a small powerhouse to super power Ataturk keeping Turkey intact purging reactionaries and stepping for Turkey to be an oasis in the region of failures Tito and Nasser were good on their times but they failed to leave a decent legacy hence they are mere footnotes Yugoslavia does not exist no more and Egypt is well a rentier state with irrelevance

Like they are Sinophiles. This is called 'long distance love'. If the your typical mullah in Pakistan went to Istanbul and saw semi-naked ladies walking about, bars full of alcohol intoxicated people, gay parade, man love touted on the streets their eyes would open up. Then it would bev "gora, gora **expletives". Same applies if they get to know Chinese up close and personal.

On the Turkish social/political scale I would be regarded as a conservative Muslim. In Pakistan I would be ragarded as a westoxified, zionist loving bastard liberal. That tells you how differant stages of political maturity Pakistan and Turkey are. So distant that most of our masses can't even understand.

It is long distance love which is why I feel it is my responsibility to bring the folks in the Pakistani mindsets to understand the reality and stop acting as cheerleaders if you want to reach those goals gotta have tough medications and deep reflections Erdogan would be a political liberal and will be denounced if he were to be in the Pakistani political sphere as leader

 

[Indus Pakistan]

I must go now gents as my room is filling with family. Hugs and kisses are drowning me. I am 57 ./..

 

[Yankee-stani]

Man what do you do in a country where while the global pandemic has turned New York, London into ghost towns costing trillions but in Pakistan mullahs have insisted in mosques remaining opened. And the government for understandable reason has backed of because it knows that masses would follow the mullahs.

The lockdown in UK is about 95% succesful. Not because of fear of police or fear government but because most people saw the logic of why government orderd the lockdown. Every shade of political opinion supported the government. All influencers in society, media, churches etc have followed on and supported the lockdown.

In Pakistan the mullahs and their mass followers have gone against the obvious. How do you cure the sickness behind this? It can't be neogiated. It can't be reasoned with. Only solution is you let Stalin or Mao loose. Turkey, Russia, China are where they are largely or significantly because of those leaders. They were men of their times. We did not have men like that. That is why generation after generation in Pakistan will suffer and will continue to suffer. This is death of thousand lashings !

In Those Swing states yall got folks protesting the quarantine order I get your point tho

I must go now gents as my room is filling with family. Hugs and kisses are drowning me. I am 57 ./..

Enjoy and have fun and late Happy Birthday

As I stated earlier, the same logic on FB, Twitter, Youtube cannot apply on a forum, esp one so important as this.

So much precious time gets wasted and important topics derailed as a result of trolling from Indians. There was a reason a heavy handed approach was needed post 27 Feb, and it should still be in effect.

I say this so we can discuss important issues which relate to Pakistan, without constant interruptions.

It's the internet asides the Indian trolls you have much more Pakistanis that derail threads to pinch in Partisian politics

 

[Nilgiri]

Tito and Nasser were good on their times but they failed to leave a decent legacy hence they are mere footnotes Yugoslavia does not exist no more and Egypt is well a rentier state with irrelevance

Will have to agree to disagree on Mao. Too many variables and too many opportunity cost analysis (since we dont have access to how a non-Mao china would have gone in alternate U etc) overall.

I think Tito left lot more legacy than Nasser. Yes Yugoslavia doesnt exist as country anymore, but there is a larger development he did among the constituents of it today and their sensibilities long term etc. Definitely too bad about the ethnic cleaving of it...a bridge too far in the area I suppose for his vision. But then its of course arguable how much of that would have been exclusively from Tito, and how much was stuff he was simply a conveyor during cold war etc.

Nasser on other hand, like I only read mostly about him from socialist-goals stuff, political base (after kicking out the monarchy etc) and from perspective of conflict with Israel in that era (I studied the wars there deeply as you know). I don't see his vision (conceptually) that fundamentally ingrained in the individual sensibilities and institutions of Egypt like say Tito....even though Egypt stays together unlike YSlavia.

 

[xeuss]

The ideology of a government is irrelevant as long as the masses are oppressed, with no hope of justice.

Consider your society to have advanced, when the poor or the oppressed firmly believe that if they are wronged, they will have a fair day in court, and the state will side with them.

That is what all our countries lack.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I must go now gents as my room is filling with family. Hugs and kisses are drowning me. I am 57 ./..

Ah, to be that bright young age again, with a mix of full vigorous maturity and wisdom combined. I was peaking then, and look back on those sunshine years with great affection.

My very best wishes to you on this occasion, and best wishes for many more occasions and many more push-ups. After my stents and at my age much more than a decade on, five would be my limit. But more 50s to you.

The ideology of a government is irrelevant as long as the masses are oppressed, with no hope of justice.

Consider your society to have advanced, when the poor or the oppressed firmly believe that if they are wronged, they will have a fair day in court, and the state will side with them.

That is what all our countries lack.

A painful truth.

@Jackdaws - a one-paragraph summary of my analysis, if you like.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

The ideology of a government is irrelevant as long as the masses are oppressed, with no hope of justice.

Consider your society to have advanced, when the poor or the oppressed firmly believe that if they are wronged, they will have a fair day in court, and the state will side with them.

That is what all our countries lack.

Great truth brother.

And this is what Islam came to do for the world. Prophet Muhammad saws revolutionized the world from a harsh reality of injustice to a beacon of hope and modernity.

We Muslims need to get our act together.

 

[Joe Shearer]

No idea what this thread is about but I have been tagged twice. I have 'known' @Joe Shearer for nearly a decade now and i hoild him in the highest possible regard mostly because of his razor sharp intellect. I have enjoyed enormously some extreme bouts with this gent that required every sinew of my brain working all out. It was often the intellectual equivalent of boxing ten rounds with Mike Tyson. Over the years I have got tired and older. Nowdays I just don't have the patience of engaging in long discussions and instead just scoot/shoot then jump out. Sort of cheap thrills type of thing.

I had a medical emergency some years ago and was starved of oxygen for few minutes. It is possible i lost whole bundle of brain fibres but nowdays I do struggle to operate at full gas mode for extended period of time. It's a good thing thing I am now semi-retired.


On wider note I do not fan of banning people unless absolutely neccessary. It's a tool to be used sparingly. I also do not think Indian members or any others from any country should be banned for holding divergent views. One of the joys of PDF used to be being exposed to raucous crowd with views diametrically opposed. The best thing you can do is hold your views up against those who disagree. Only that way can you learn or find out if your arguamant holds water. Removing a forum of those who you disagree is like removing oxygen. It kills good discourse.

For the attention of @Joe Shearer I would say I often act like uber-nationalist. I have to. My dream is a Pakistan that is developed like any other developed country and not trapped in a medieval nightmare. That hurts me. Not because it effects me personally. I have had a charming life and look to more years of pursuit of happiness in extremely comfortable circumstances. However I still have strong connection with my heritage and it hurts me to see my country in the state it is. I also know it's potential. It could match and outdo any western country.

However the curse of religion tied to a corrupt rentier elite kills any chance of progress. The mullah and rentier elite are in cahoots to keep masses of Pakistan shackled in ignorance. The only cure to this is uber-nationalism that cuts across tribe/caste/creed and fires the people into one nation marching toward progress where reason, logic and science are gods.

You have never fooled those who understand you; it is your hot temper, and your inability to suffer fools gladly. I have tried to fend off the rash and unwary who were being provocative, but it is not always possible; for some of them, it is not even desirable.

I see nothing wrong with being nationalist to an extreme, if it is done to redress the balance and to get the attention of the jaded jingo.

More power to your elbow.

Enjoy your birthday. I wish I could have been there with a bottle of bubbly.

Out and over ...

@Pan-Islamic-Pakistan I appreciate your interest in Pakistan's heritage and many thanks for the positive thoughts you gave to me. The answer to Pakistan's problems is a Bismarkian order that rests around hyper-nationalism centred around our history and heritage.

Brother, I tagged you to say that you were one of the reasons I joined this forum to begin with, nothing more. I wish that we can promote ancient Pakistan history on a deeper level on this forum. Look forward to your posts.

The problem I have is not divergent viewpoints, that is all well and fine. It is the incessant targetting by gangs egged on by both, but in particular one of them.

In a thread on the fall of West towards fascism and identity politics, I shared a post which was used by the guilty to bring all manner of Russians, Eurofascists, Americans, and others to attack me. They fight by proxy, they have another source where they arrange it. This is not the first time, but is basically the rule whenever they catch my posts.

I am having to explain myself over and over because this cretin is becoming a mouthpiece for my words, twisting and using it to further his purposes.

I know I am not the only one who has witnessed this.

Let me tell you bluntly that I do not operate in a gang, neither on a temporary nor on a permanent footing. Nor does my membership of other fora help me to foment a movement against any individual. To make it plain, I have not needed the intellectual support of others ever, even when engaged with your brightest; I do not recall having paid serious attention to you, other than to note the toxic content of your posts on occasions.

It comes as rich irony to have faced large crowds of Hindutva fanatics baying for my blood, more than once, and then being informed in self-pitying tones that those same packs are set on to you by me.

Nothing could be further from the truth. If you are seeking reasons for being less influential than you wish to be, seek them elsewhere.