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BloodBath in India Mob Lynch 2 Hindu Saints #IkWariFirModi

III. The bleak present.

So here we are, faced with several phenomena.

A. The flight to the cities, to education, thus jobs, thus income, thus asset-building led to the sharp decline in poverty that analysts have noted, a decline in spite of a burgeoning population, a decline that defied Malthus.
B. An apparent assimilation with the urban educated, in India, denoted by shorthand by English-speaking; so those who through their vernacular education transmuting into technical training as engineers and doctors acquired the language skills of the former leaders of society acquired a sense of equality, a sense of enfranchisement.
C. A vacuum in social values and societal norms, an abandonment of the rule of law as a guiding principle, a reversion to the negotiated settlement of their rural origins; also a rejection of the Gandhian guideline of equality among all religions, creeds, races, languages; this was not part of their rural society, why should they accept these bizarre notions coming from those who displayed an irritating sense of superiority from having been earlier to climb the slippery pole?
D. The advent and spread of the Internet, in due course of time, with Internet 2.0, the spread of social media, and the ability to transmute one's innermost thoughts and prejudices to 'fact', or to 'history', meaning thereby a presentation of these pent-up emotions as reality.
E. The consolidation of the rural power structure, with the Brahmin as interpreter of the wishes of the Gods, the Rajputs as muscle, as enforcers, and the Banias as the power of money, economic enforcers.

This, coupled with the disastrous mis-steps made by Mrs. Gandhi after 1971, leading to the regrettable elevation of Rajiv Gandhi, his several acts of criminal conduct against the nation, including the Sikh killings, the clandestine opening of the Babri Masjid for Hindu idols to be smuggled in, the betrayal of the progressive Muslim in the Shah Bano case, the blatant poll-rigging to reinstate Farooq Abdullah as Chief Minister of Kashmir, the cynical intervention in Sri Lanka, the egregious mismanagement of graft and corrupt earnings in the Bofors scandal, all combined to smear the heirs of the victory over the British and the survival of the Muslim League's defection and to make their halo tarnished to the point of repulsion.

It was this that the right wing had been waiting for, and they seized their opportunity with both hands.

[Added]

The Hindutva-abiding right wing had shrunk to four seats in Rajiv Gandhi's first elections, but today, they are at a sobering absolute majority, based on 41% of the popular vote, up from 31% even five years earlier. What is behind their success?

One factor was the deep-rooted hatred of the social domination in village, town and city society, completely unfounded after the direct rule of the British, but endorsed by centuries of habit, and a tendency of the Muslims to assume that things would continue forever. It was only when that community realised with shock that their earlier predominance and privileged position with regard to administrative selection was gone for ever, and that they had made a mistake in staying away from the channels of upliftment in modern Indian society, a British education, that they were galvanised into action. It is worth remembering that the meeting hosted by the Nawab of Dhaka in 1906 was a meeting of worthies and eminences from all over India to discuss Muslim further education and steps to be taken to facilitate those (the All India Muslim Education League); it was in the evenings that the same delegates met to debate the proposal to start an All India Muslim League. So the latent hatred of the Hindu from the cow-belt for his galling Muslim neighbour continued right through the Independence Struggle, and was fanned by the active interest taken by intellectuals of the Feringhi Mahal in the politics of the Muslim League and the efforts of the Muslim League to carve out a separate existence for the Muslim community.

Another factor was the revanchist sentiment directly born from this covert hatred, that was suppressed by strenuous efforts by Gandhi and his successor, Nehru, with the collaboration of the strong man in the Nehru Cabinet, Patel. This was barely contained, but the tarnishing of the image of the Congress, and the increasing dissatisfaction with a corrupt, manipulative government soon found the electorate looking for alternatives.

A third factor was the growing sense of entitlement by the neo-urban, those who had joined the ranks of the prosperous through the sacrifices made by their village and rural town based parents to send their children through capitation fee colleges. Having got there, these new entrants to the middle class now began to demand parity with the older elite, and compared themselves favourably with that elite's obnoxious supercilious attitude, and exclusive social posturing.

The final, deciding factor was the coherent political campaign of the BJP, indeed, of the Sangh Parivar in general, a campaign that integrated their essential published teaching, their contact sessions where they practised armed drill in semi-military, albeit laughable manner, their well-organised social media activity cells, their encouragement of their corporate supporters to corner print and electronic media alike and to take control of these publications and channels, and their concerted attempts at cornering the donations of prudent and interested corporate circles interested in building alternatives to possible power centres in the future.

This got them the results they wanted. From their bridgehead in Gujarat, they expanded to an all-India victory in the general elections; in this, they got 31% of the popular vote. An analyst broke that down into a 13% hard core following, around 15% irritated at the essential failure to deliver economically by the UPA II and 3% opportunists, hoping to catch a favourable wind. During their first tenure, they demonstrated two characteristics:
  • The predilection to make dramatic moves that would impress the unwary as demonstrative of decisive management, directly contrary to the reputation of the UPA II as indecisive;
  • The constant recourse to creating a crisis on the frontiers with Pakistan whenever there was an election to be won.
This impressed sufficient numbers of those who had not suffered any harm from their bizarre demonetisation experiment, or from the bungled implementation of the GST initiative. As we have seen from the figures, the urban constituencies had gained in importance due to migration into the cities, and the rural constituencies had lost ground. So the poor, who were far more concentrated in the rural areas, hardly had much say in the matter; the urban middle-class, on the other hand, was far more optimistic about its prospects under NDA II, and an additional 10% joined the popular vote, taking it to 41%.

This is where we are. The consequences are all around for us to see. A background of hatred and isolation of Muslims, a selective attitude towards crime and punishment, an encouragement of the basest feelings and bigotry, until the faithful forget themselves and expose themselves even in countries where the Muslim has a right to respond with criminal sanctions, and a loss of control over the population.

What will follow?

Only time will tell.

A fine, well-rounded analysis of the history and the present. :tup:
 
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I remember you sulking away in disgrace when you fell out of favor. Pathetic.

Really? Do you go so far back? Do you remember how many times you have been permanently banned? Do you remember all your pseudonyms? Do you remember why you keep returning to a forum where you are kicked out repeatedly?

A fine, well-rounded analysis of the history and the present. :tup:

Many thanks.

I appreciate that, coming from you in particular.
 
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lol. That is funny but weird story. But here is another true story.

Do you know why Tabligi Jamaat people went around spitting at everyone ?

Their theology directs them to spit to ward off Satan's interference in their religious practices like offering namaz. Presently, they are being stopped from congregating for namaz due to Corona.

EU-ZqzeU0AAnv7B
yeah, the tableeghis are a weird bunch.

I'm going to stay away from theological discussions here though, the kafirs won that debate a long time ago afaic.

You also relax, M.. kai ko banhammer ki bheek mangta ?

chill ho jao.


Not a justification.
of course, flows both ways though.

maybe that's just his way of trying to get people to look deeper into these issues, probably is.

India and Islam is a tough one

"everyone just be nice and get along" is never going to work here.
 
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Okay, so first of all, @Nilgiri @Joe Shearer and myself are under no illusions here. If both Pakistan and India go to war, we all know that we'll be on opposite sides of whom we support.

This isn't about being a puppet, or posting propaganda. What we are having is a discussion of ideas, sometimes opposing, sometimes matching, so we can increase our knowledge bank.

You cannot simply dismiss what he says, simply because you don't like it. If you disagree with it, say so and explain why.

If you disagree that's perfectly fine, I don't always agree with a lot of members I respect. For example, I respect MastanKhan a lot, but we both heavily disagree with each other, to the point that I'm pretty sure we're polar opposites.

I'm just resigned to the reality that there is always going to be purity tests ascribed by someone from time to time (or more frequently these days maybe) on the "same side". You even pass one somehow, its just a signal for them to set the next one....and then the next. I reject the process altogether these days.

It is best (imo) to be firm in your right to chart your course in this world and that you are a unique repository of reason/conviction and no other human can ever take that from you.

But after doing that (asserting it) just let it be... purity test creators+assigners have been and will be around for ever....as sure as the sun rises and sets each day. They have often fundamentally picked making an example out of others, rather than setting an example. It is oil and water in the end.
 
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Really? Do you go so far back? Do you remember how many times you have been permanently banned? Do you remember all your pseudonyms? Do you remember why you keep returning to a forum where you are kicked out repeatedly?

Yuck, you replied. Have to take a bath again.
 
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yeah, the tableeghis are a weird bunch.

I'm going to stay away from theological discussions here though, the kafirs won that debate a long time ago afaic.

You also relax, M.. kai ko banhammer ki bheek mangta ?

chill ho jao.



of course, flows both ways though.

maybe that's just his way of trying to get people to look deeper into these issues, probably is.

India and Islam is a tough one

"everyone just be nice and get along" is never going to work here.

Spitting when mentioning Islam or a Muslim name is a way to get people to look deeper into these issues? Really? Even M might not agree. "Everyone just be nice and get along or go to jail" will work, but the lunatics are running the asylum.
 
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Just to illustrate the point, @Nilgiri and I disagree a lot, and agree on some points. Speaking for myself, I have great respect for him; a difference in our views does not demand the kind of verminous abuse that some members resort to when faced with disagreeable views.

I respect you mostly because you disagree with me Joe (and what you diligently provide to back it up), if that makes any sense.

World is a dull boring place surrounded by yes-people and head-nodding types. It would actually be a hell to me haha.
 
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Yuck, you replied. Have to take a bath again.

Try a bar of yellow soap in the mouth and in the brain. Doubt it will help, but no harm trying anything in extreme cases.

Oh, just a reminder - you never replied:

Do you remember how many times you have been permanently banned? Do you remember all your pseudonyms? Do you remember why you keep returning to a forum where you are kicked out repeatedly?

I respect you mostly because you disagree with me Joe (and what you diligently provide to back it up), if that makes any sense.

World is a dull boring place surrounded by yes-people and head-nodding types. It would actually be a hell to me haha.

Please be sure that I NEVER disagree without cause. Never on emotion.
 
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Spitting when mentioning Islam or a Muslim name is a way to get people to look deeper into these issues? Really? Even M might not agree. "Everyone just be nice and get along or go to jail" will work, but the lunatics are running the asylum.
Man's a sacred clown, a Heyoka, in you will (to borrow from native American mythology).

Shock them.

This is a civilizational clash, we shouldn't pretend otherwise.

I personally might not be, and am not, as invested in this but the collective psyche of India is... in the idea/truth?

that

Islam is not our friend.
 
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Man's a sacred clown, a Heyoka, in you will (to borrow from native American mythology).

Shock them.

This is a civilizational clash, we shouldn't pretend otherwise.

I personally might not be, and am not, as invested in this but the collective psyche of India is... in the idea/truth?

that

Islam is not our friend.

I don't know why I am engaging with you, given your closeness to a repulsive creepy creature who has been banned - permanently - multiple times and keeps insinuating himself under a false name every time.

Until you prove yourself to be the same, you deserve the courtesy of being given an answer - or sometimes, no answer.

It isn't about Islam. It isn't a civilisational clash; that is a fiction created by the insecure, the uncertain and the weak personalities of this world. It's about our confidence in the rule of law, and our willingness to invest in that confidence and in that rule of law. It's not about standing apart with a smirk and pretending that one has nothing to do with the commotion going around. That is cowardly, immoral and unethical.

You quote the collective psyche of India. There is nothing called a collective psyche, there are instead hundreds and thousands, maybe even millions of identical psyches persuaded to abdicate their power of individual thinking and to subscribe to a false universal.

Stop being clever about a process that is destroying our nation, and ensuring its certain defeat at the hands of those who think as you do, but from the other side of the fence.
 
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Try a bar of yellow soap in the mouth and in the brain. Doubt it will help, but no harm trying anything in extreme cases.

Oh, just a reminder - you never replied:

Do you remember how many times you have been permanently banned? Do you remember all your pseudonyms? Do you remember why you keep returning to a forum where you are kicked out repeatedly?

Yuck .... he replied again :sick:

I will try TWO bar of soap in the mouth, brain and on my computer if it can help me get rid of the putrid gangrenous personification of evil who insist of being heard even when everyone wants him crawling back into the hell hole. Where is corona when you need him ? Heard it takes the old first.
 
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I don't know why I am engaging with you, given your closeness to a repulsive creepy creature who has been banned - permanently - multiple times and keeps insinuating himself under a false name every time.
Throw/scatter it all out there..let the marketplace of ideas decide what thrives and what perishes.

It isn't about Islam. It isn't a civilisational clash;..
but it is !

that is a fiction created by the insecure, the uncertain and the weak personalities of this world.
No.

It's about our confidence in the rule of law, and our willingness to invest in that confidence and in that rule of law.
Laws evolve and change, Moses ka patthar nahi hai...

about standing apart with a smirk and pretending that one has nothing to do with the commotion going around. That is cowardly, immoral and unethical.
The bug scare aside, things are perfectly fine here in India.

You quote the collective psyche of India. There is nothing called a collective psyche, there are instead hundreds and thousands, maybe even millions of identical psyches persuaded to abdicate their power of individual thinking and to subscribe to a false universal.
They shall be dealt with by the TRUE collective ! :D

rabid individualism does have it's place, just not at the civilizational level

Stop being clever about a process that is destroying our nation, and ensuring its certain defeat at the hands of those who think as you do, but from the other side of the fence.
Destroy what ?

It's brought us together like nothing ever has.
 
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Yuck .... he replied again :sick:

I will try TWO bar of soap in the mouth, brain and on my computer if it can help me get rid of the putrid gangrenous personification of evil who insist of being heard even when everyone wants him crawling back into the hell hole. Where is corona when you need him ? Heard it takes the old first.

Forgot again?

Do you remember how many times you have been permanently banned? Do you remember all your pseudonyms? Do you remember why you keep returning to a forum where you are kicked out repeatedly?

Throw/scatter it all out there..let the marketplace of ideas decide what thrives and what perishes.


but it is !


No.


Laws evolve and change, Moses ka patthar nahi hai...


The bug scare aside, things are perfectly fine here in India.


They shall be dealt with by the TRUE collective ! :D

rabid individualism does have it's place, just not at the civilizational level


Destroy what ?

It's brought us together like nothing ever has.

Apart from flatly denying everything, without any reasoning whatever, is there anything else you have to say?
 
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Forgot again?

Do you remember how many times you have been permanently banned? Do you remember all your pseudonyms? Do you remember why you keep returning to a forum where you are kicked out repeatedly?

Looks like even that 2 bars of soap is not enough to clean the filth spread by some. :sick:

I am beginning the understand and appreciate why certain hindus were made outcasts and kept outside the social circle and made Untouchables. Some people deserve to be kept out of civilized society.

Its times like this when one appreciates ancient wisdom.
 
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Looks like even that 2 bars of soap is not enough to clean the filth spread by some. :sick:

I am beginning the understand and appreciate why certain hindus were made outcasts and kept outside the social circle and made Untouchables. Some people deserve to be kept out of civilized society.

Its times like this when one appreciates ancient wisdom.

Not surprising that you speak for untouchability, considering what other filth you spread in society.
 
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