Blast near Shia mosque in Saudi Arabia, two killed

[Saif al-Arab]

Can I suggest that rather than it being the salvation, it's one of the main problems?

What the M.E needs is secular states with complete freedom of religion. Something that is a personal choice, not controlled by the state.

Is it any surprise that the most successful states in the M.E (socially, not just in terms of economics) are secular?

Islam has been a stagnant religion and culture for a long time. It's become a politicised religion that does not promote debate or freedoms. It doesn't promote individual success, often doesn't promote education and doesn't exactly pioneer much . It's not dynamic, it's archaic.

Perhaps this is Islam's reformation. Perhaps it needs to go through catastrophic conflicts to come out on the other side a more 'spiritual' version rather than the politicised and militarised we see today.

Can you tell me how well that plan was implemented in the Arab/Muslim world historically from Southern Yemen to Iraq to Afghanistan?

Most Arab/ME states have freedom of religion and most are by large secular. That might come as a shock but it's nevertheless true. Not as secular as your average European country of course but still many secular thoughts have been implemented.

Your last part of your post is nonsense and understand that our value system is different from the one that rules this world which is solely about material wealth and ego. There is more to life than this.

Besides Islam does not place any limitations on education, science, personal success etc. on many fronts it actually encourages this.

Non-Muslims won't understand this.

Besides I can confirm that no entity is fully "Islamic" to begin with.

When it comes to KSA there is little for Muslims to complain about. The only differences that I would call for here and now would be the removal of some silly laws (most if not all have nothing to do with Islam or very little) and some political and social reforms. The latter is tied to the legislation in large.

Of course Jews were there a long time before the word 'Arab' was even known and before the Arabic language was created - so they are completely indigenous and will not be moved by any means.

I thought you might have known that by now, given how many defeats your people have suffered in trying to remove Israel from the middle east. The Jewish people have thrived there despite the adversity they face. In fact, many say that Jews have thrived because of the adversity they face.

If Arabs in the M.E want to know how to create free, stable, democratic countries - they should look no further than to the Jews for advice.

A people that have created an amazing country in just 67 short years.

I believe that one of the sore points for the Arabs (if they're honest with themselves) is that they have seen the Jewish people turn a malaria-infested barren land, into an extremely successful nation that pioneers, innovates and leads in many fields.

Whilst they have gone backwards. Arabs used to pioneer. Not any longer and it hurts them. It hurts their pride. They long for the glory days when the Arab world was respected, not derided. I can understand that.

False. The word "Arab" and the Arabic language is much like the word "Jew" and Jewish language approximately 3000 years old but that does not matter as before the word Arab appeared and Arabic our descendants were part of earlier Semitic civilizations and long before that the first human migrations out of Africa.

We could adopt another identity tomorrow but that would have no relevance on history.

The descendants of Jews and every other ME people lived on the Arabian Peninsula for thousands of years before their descendants migrated to other parts of the planet including nearby Levant. In terms of seniority we are only second to the East and South Africans who are apparently (if we believe science) the forefathers of every person outside of those areas of Africa.

Not sure where Israel came from anyway?

Let me remind you that 21% of your population is Arab and that over 2/3's of all Israeli Jews are Jews from the Arab world (Arab Jews) or partial Arab Jews.

I already told you that most of us who are well-versed in history recognize them as our people too. For instance I don't consider an Yemeni Jew or a Yemeni Arab to be different on any front other than religion. DNA has also confirmed this. Same with all other Arab Jews from Morocco, Iraq, Egypt, Syria etc.

The last 70 years and what went good or bad is irrelevant in the wider picture here as all peoples and civilizations have bad and good periods and what you describe is relevant for some Arab countries but not for other.

In the end it all goes do

 

[Falcon29]

Of course Jews were there a long time before the word 'Arab' was even known and before the Arabic language was created - so they are completely indigenous and will not be moved by any means.

I thought you might have known that by now, given how many defeats your people have suffered in trying to remove Israel from the middle east. The Jewish people have thrived there despite the adversity they face. In fact, many say that Jews have thrived because of the adversity they face.

If Arabs in the M.E want to know how to create free, stable, democratic countries - they should look no further than to the Jews for advice.

A people that have created an amazing country in just 67 short years.

I believe that one of the sore points for the Arabs (if they're honest with themselves) is that they have seen the Jewish people turn a malaria-infested barren land, into an extremely successful nation that pioneers, innovates and leads in many fields.

Whilst they have gone backwards. Arabs used to pioneer. Not any longer and it hurts them. It hurts their pride. They long for the glory days when the Arab world was respected, not derided. I can understand that.

Our people never declared Jihad against modern day Israel. All the Arab-Israeli wars were fought by secular Arabs. Our Prophet told us we will never win unless we seek victory through God. Only Islamists are capable, and after Assad falls, other things in region will occur. Also other peoples plans will coincide with his fall, and you will see how it shapes itself. As we had an earlier discussion, I already explained indepth that Arabs are supressed from democracy as long as it isn't one that foriegners prefer. So that's not possible, whats possible is military victory over our enemies. And that post-victory process is our business which you don't have to worry about. Right now its a struggle for acheiving basic rights. And it wont end until we secure our rights. Jews conquered Caanan, and the Jews of today. There are 80 million plus outside Israel. The ones in Israel will live under our state as they did in the past. If they don't want to we can build an large ark for them to sail to Europe.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

Where YOU wahabi were, when Saddam did shia genocide in millions. Now shia houthi . Killed thousands of shia in Afghanistan by your followers and your type of breed. Now look at your ISIS , which is now inside your country. Your type made Pakistan a living hell. Lost thousands of Pakistani.

What is "Wahhabi"? My ancestors made you Muslim. We follow Islam and Islam only. Like we have for 1400 straight years.

Saddam Hussein did not commit any "Shia genocide " and since I know that you have no clue about the Arab world and it's very rich and extremely long history, I did not expect you to write any differently.

KSA welcomed hundreds of thousands of Iraqi Shia Arabs in the early 1990's. In fact there is 1 Iraqi Shia Arab from Nasiriyah here (Malik al-Ashtar) on small PDF that lived in Northern KSA as a refugee.

What you Pakistanis do has nothing to do with me or any Arabs. Sort your own problems out and let us deal with our own affairs and problems.

 

[SHAMK9]

even i don't like shia, bomb the mosque is haram, if i'm not mistaken

What did shias do to you?

 

[U8200]

Can you tell me how well that plan was implemented in the Arab/Muslim world historically from Southern Yemen to Iraq to Afghanistan?

Most Arab/ME states have freedom of religion and most are by large secular. That might come as a shock but it's nevertheless truth. Not as secular as your average European country of course but still many secular thoughts have been implemented.

Your last part of your post is nonsense and understand that our value system is different from the one that rules this world which is solely about material wealth and ego. There is more to life than this.

Besides Islam does not place any limitations on education, science, personal success etc. on many fronts it actually encourages this.

Non-Muslims won't understand this.

Besides I can confirm that no entity is fully "Islamic" to begin with.

When it comes to KSA there is little for Muslims to complain about. The only differences that I would call for here and now would be the removal of some silly laws (most if not all have nothing to do with Islam or very little) and some political and social reforms. The latter is tied to the legislation in large.

Why are so many Islamic states a failure? a failure economically but more importantly, socially.

I know it's not the same culture as Europeans, but Europeans used to be in the same situation as you and clawed their way out of it.

You talk about wanting to get rid of some "silly laws" yet you want to live by Islam which you reckon is the salvation. So tell me, do you want apostates to be killed? because that's what living by Islam means.

You say you agree with freedom of religion, but Islam doesn't agree with those who're Muslim wishing to become atheists or Christians.

Whatever the answer is, whether it's secular states or reformed Islam - something needs to happen.

Just imagine the state of your country and the surrounding region if you didn't have huge reserves of oil & gas - what would you have done? what would Iran have done? lived off of exports of pistachios and Arabian horses?

Get real. The Islamic culture is in a mess.

False. The word "Arab" and the Arabic language is much like the word "Jew" and Jewish language approximately 3000 years old but that does not matter as before the word Arab appeared and Arabic our descendants were part of earlier Semitic civilizations and long before that the first human migrations out of Africa.

From wiki

The Arabs are first mentioned in the mid 9th century BC as a tribal people dwelling in the mid Arabian Peninsula

Just stating a fact that Jews have been around since before the Arab language etc. Just using it as a yardstick for Falcon who seems to think Jews arrived from Europe in 1948 (as is the anti-Israel narrative taught to palestinians)

Let me remind you that 21% of your population is Arab and that over 2/3's of all Israeli Jews are Jews from the Arab world (Arab Jews) or partial Arab Jews.

I already told you that most of us who are well-versed in history recognize them as our people too. For instance I don't consider an Yemeni Jew or a Yemeni Arab to be different on any front other than religion. DNA has also confirmed this. Same with all other Arab Jews from Morocco, Iraq, Egypt, Syria etc.

The last 70 years and what went good or bad is irrelevant in the wider picture here as all peoples and civilizations have bad and good periods and what you describe is relevant for some Arab countries but not for other.

Agree - but I also see 'European' Jews as belonging to the region because that's their original homeland. Just like if an Arabian tribe had been exiled to South America and existed to this day, they would still be Arabian in origin despite mixing with South Americans.

 

[Saif al-Arab]

The shia have always faced terror, suicide attacks and oppression. Even the alawites of Syria which are demonized today, we never hear about how they were killed, tortured and oppressed by sunni arabs and sunni ottomans during ottoman empire.

There are no realistic solutions to for this problem, like abolishing the aggressive hanbali religion and converting them into sunni islam (hanafi). All these tolerance talks by salafists/children of ibn-taymiya is just a show for outsiders. Already 2 suicide bomb attacks in a week time and many innocents killed.

Till when this is supposed to go on? till a shia becomes like them and blows himself up? no that will not happen, however the shia have the right to form armed groups and defend themselves if the government does not defend them, or even spreads anti-shia ideologies into the world. In Iraq shia militias were formed after salafi terrorism.

Yes, especially the Arab Fatimids did that and dozens of other Shia Arab dynasties from Morocco to Yemen. Or the Turkic/Kurdish/Hashemite or whatever they claimed Safavids who murdered and forcibly converted Iranians (genocide) to Shia Islam (Twelver) and imported Arab Shia Mullah clerics from nearby regions in the 1000's.

Safavid conversion of Iran to Shia Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Suicide attacks in Islam are less than 35 years old and where, surprise, surprise, introduced by a Shia group. Their name is Hezbollah.

Yes, Sunni Arabs were so evil that a few million Alawis lived in Syria for an eternity without facing any violence. On the other hand a few powerful Alawi families have caused terror in Syria for decades.

LOL. The Hanbali fiqh is 1 of the 4 recognized madahib in Sunni Islam and is not a "religion". It's almost identical to all the other 3 Sunni madahib and besides it's a minority madhhab in KSA.

Yes, 3 attacks on Shia in 83 years of history. Less than 40 dead in total.

The sole armed "Shia group" in KSA has been destroyed and its leaders are in jail awaiting execution. Arming "Shia's" (who, how, against whom) will just make matters even more worse for them.

Anyway

1) You are not a Muslim

2) You do not care about Arabs, whether Shia or not

3) Sunnis in Iran are murdered on a monthly basis and put on show-trials where they are accused of being "enemies of God". From the Baluch to the Kurds to the Turkmens to the Arabs.

90% of all the 1.7 billion Muslims are Sunni and most of them, especially nowadays, have low tolerance levels for Shias sponsored by the Iranian Wilayat al-Faqih regime and their agenda.

 

[B@KH]

You can't respect Shia beliefs when in reality shia's are secular and don't care at all about religion but preach the opposite in order to get a claim of authority in Arab world. I doubt any shia actually believes in his madhab or that Prophet's closest friends were actually his enemies. That's just Shia's way to say 'screw you Muslims'. They altered Islam in order to delegatmize Muslims and shia Islam is only compatible with Iranians. Or wannabe Iraqi Iranians. Many members of Iraqi government whom are Shia speak Farsi, also Nasrallah for example was taught in Iran and I'm sure he can speak it too.

I have done research on Shia madhab myself, never bothered to get knowledge from clerics. I searched history, differences of madhab on my own and decided to come to my own conclusion. To say the least, I can't in no way believe in it. It seems like someone trolled around with Islam in order to distort original Islam.

You are agnostic, not sure why but probably because you also couldn't take your beliefs seriously. So we may agree that the beliefs don't make sense. But being iranian background, of course you still have feelings for your people.

you do not know what you are talking about and who even gave you such fairy tales.
Quran, Hadith, History, Logic and reasoning are all against you.

Interestingly you do not call Quran as Sahih. while your jewish fabricated tales are labled as Sahih to fool people.

Nothing can be Sahih if not recommended by Quran. You build, assume and fabricate your own beliefs and call it Sahih to fool yourself. pathetic. so why shia believe in your sahih which is actually fake and lie.

we do not consider you muslims due to your fabrications and building an empire.

The only reason we consider you muslim is that you believe in last prophet pbuh.

Even those who believe in last but are drinkers, occupiers, invaders, rapists, dancers, dacoits, thieves are muslims too but they are not to be followed upon. so why follow and listen to you when you have nothing better.

you have nothing better. neither Quran, not Hadith or History or logic/reasoning support you.

but you can continue to fool yourself.

LOL! when people die they all become momin. because they all suddenly see with their eyes what was right and wrong. so to become momin death is must. before death you cannot see the right.

90% of all the 1.7 billion Muslims are Sunni and most of them, especially nowadays, have low tolerance levels for Shias sponsored by the Iranian Wilayat al-Faqih regime and their agenda.

Only 90%.

100% are sunni.

continue dreaming.

 

[JUBA]

. Never mind decades of constant propaganda against Iran

Actually believe it or not up till 2008 i was pro Iran and Hezbollah like most Saudis at that time, i didn't know what Shia was till i reached high school, we simply didn't hate you or love you and there was no propaganda against you, but we found out the truth later, you see unlike your country the moment a child is born he/she are taught to hate Arabs and Sunnis

 

[HAIDER]

Reading general lines about ethnicity ...If Islam was for Arabs or for humanity. If Islam was for Arab then rest of non Arabs hanging with wrong crowd......I think I am following Arab religion.....hhhhhmmmmmmm...now feel sorry for Bahrini shia,,,who are asking for democracy , but in return self imposed king gave them shut up call...by calling it shia uprising...........humanity demand freedom

 

[Saif al-Arab]

@U8200

The problems have little to do with Islam as those same regions were once what the West is today, meaning ahead on most fronts. Under Islam. You yourself recognized this earlier in this debate.

Whole books have been written about those questions in the past 100 years by European and non-European authors.

That's why I told you that every people and civilization has up and downs.

Those silly laws that I am talking about ( have not specified them as there is no need for that) has nothing or little to do with Islam. So it's not conflicting to my overall views at all.

That's not correct. There is no compulsion in Islam.

What must happen is for the PEOPLE to decide their own future, prevent all negative foreign meddling and for ills such as corruption, injustice etc. to disappear.

It's hard to tell but the Arabian Peninsula did not need oil or gas to become one of the most richest areas on the planet for centuries during the Incense Route which lasted from 7Bth century BC to 2and century CE.

Incense Route - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Nor built numerous ancient civilizations, some of the oldest out there. Let alone other parts of the Arab world. This part of the planet is more rich in history (recorded) than any other.

One again we are back to the "ups and downs".

Arabian horses are actually a very expensive business/hobby and are arguably the most expensive animals out there. At least with no doubt horses. I would have nothing against talking care of a Arabian stable farm.

Once again you talk about material wealth which is nice and all but not the end goal and not something that will make you truly happy.

The GCC is the richest area of the world together with Switzerland, Monaco, Lichtenstein, Scandinavia etc. I know what I am talking about.

I already told you that the words "Arab and Jew" and their languages (back then neighborly related Semitic peoples, speaking similar languages) are both approximately 3000 years old but our previous ancestors are older than yours in the historical sense. Semitic peoples/civilizations on the Peninsula predate those in what is now today Israel.

Yes, sure. The thing is that their ancestors lived in Europe for 1000 + years and were/are more European than Middle Eastern. That's why there were so big contrasts between the Arab/Middle Eastern Jews and European Jews (Eastern European mainly). Despite the Arab Jews not being Muslim they were closer to their Muslim neighbors (much more) than the Eastern European Jews.

Speaking about Arabs in South America then the Arab diaspora is approximately 30-40 million big.

Did you know? Latin America has had 8 presidents of Arab origin | ngc blog

Need I say Carlos Slim (world's richest man or second richest man), Shakira, Salma Hayek etc.

Diaspora Arabs in South America are extremely successful and most are Christian Arabs (but also many Muslim) but why are the Christian Arabs in South America 100 times as successful as those in the ME when they are the same people? Again this has nothing to do with religion but the political, social, economic, security etc. conditions of the ME.

Why is Sub-Saharan Africa the most impoverished and most problematic area of the planet when most are Christians? Why is India home to the largest number of poor people (in a single country) and illiterates despite them being Hindu and not Muslim?

To me it seems that you want to create an connection with Islam and the ills of the ME. The same Islam turned the ME into the foremost power in the world during Islam something that did not occur before for a long time.

Only 90%.

100% are sunni.

continue dreaming.

What dreaming? You are the one dreaming.

Sunni Islam (/ˈsuːni/ or /ˈsʊni/) is the largestbranch of Islam; As of 2009 Sunni Muslims constituted 87-90% of the world's Muslim population.[1]

Sunni Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You are a small minority and always were. The highest percentages of Shia's that I can find anywhere (reliable sources) say 15%. Not more than that.

Who is "daydreaming" once again?

Just accept your reality. Now a "Wahhabi" told you even.

 

[IR1907]

Actually believe it or not up till 2008 i was pro Iran and Hezbollah like most Saudis at that time, i didn't know what Shia was till i reached high school, we simply didn't hate you or love you and there was no propaganda against you, but we found out the truth later, you see unlike your country the moment a child is born he/she are taught to hate Arabs and Sunnis

Did you support Hezbollah/Iran during the war in 2006 ?

 

[Hack-Hook]

There will never be peace with any Farsis as long as 450 million Arabs are alive. You Shits can try to attack us and you will see how that will end up.

House of Saud is actually your main ally on this front. They are trying to keep it under control but they will eventually fail as long as you Shits and Nusayris are doing genocide in Syria and Iraq.

Why we want to attack you while you are doing a perfect job of it .

 

[B@KH]

Our people never declared Jihad against modern day Israel. All the Arab-Israeli wars were fought by secular Arabs. Our Prophet told us we will never win unless we seek victory through God. Only Islamists are capable, and after Assad falls, other things in region will occur. Also other peoples plans will coincide with his fall, and you will see how it shapes itself. As we had an earlier discussion, I already explained indepth that Arabs are supressed from democracy as long as it isn't one that foriegners prefer. So that's not possible, whats possible is military victory over our enemies. And that post-victory process is our business which you don't have to worry about. Right now its a struggle for acheiving basic rights. And it wont end until we secure our rights. Jews conquered Caanan, and the Jews of today. There are 80 million plus outside Israel. The ones in Israel will live under our state as they did in the past. If they don't want to we can build an large ark for them to sail to Europe.

Who are they declare jihad ? ignorant mobs and monarchs and mullah are not authority in religion.

but you people are like a crow who tried to swim like a swan and then was unable to use his own wings to fly.

 

[JUBA]

Did you support Hezbollah/Iran during the war in 2006 ?

Yes, most Arabs and Saudis sided with Hezbollah in that war, of course later on Hezbollah showed it true face when they attacked Beirut in 2008.

 

[B@KH]

Reading general lines about ethnicity ...If Islam was for Arabs or for humanity. If Islam was for Arab then rest of non Arabs hanging with wrong crowd......I think I am following Arab religion.....hhhhhmmmmmmm...now feel for sorry for Bahrini shia,,,who are asking for democracy , but in return self imposed king gave them shut up call...by calling it shia uprising...........humanity demand freedom

I edit. but they are finished.

-Allah will bring another Nation, He shall love them and they shall love Him (Holy Qur'an 5:54).فَسَوْفَ يَأْتِي اللَّـهُ بِقَوْمٍ يُحِبُّهُمْ وَيُحِبُّونَهُ-Allah will replace you with (Better) Nation, they will not be like you" (Holy Qur'an 47:38).وَإِن تَتَوَلَّوْا يَسْتَبْدِلْ قَوْمًا غَيْرَ‌كُمْ ثُمَّ لَا يَكُونُوا أَمْثَالَكُم-He will chastise you with painful chastisement & will replace you with another Nation, (Holy Qur'an 9:38-39) وَيَسْتَبْدِلْ قَوْمًا غَيْرَ‌كُمْ وَلَا تَضُرُّ‌وهُ شَيْئًا

The ONE BETTER NATION is IRAN and it is the only nation that is praised by the Prophet pbuh and even said that the Nation of my companion Salman Farsi r.a. will restore Islam. this is clealy written in sunni hadith books. Iqbal also talked bout them and also I listened a sunni mullah with my own ears telling the same thing and said the basically the arabs distracted from Islam and Islam was restored by Iranains as most sahih sitta books writers are Persians.