DESERT FIGHTER
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Blast in Quetta kills 84 Shias, injures 200
- Thread starter Paan Singh
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DESERT FIGHTER
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Kill these Sipha of assholes and lashkar of faggots!
INDIATEC2020
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R.I.P to all dead.....
TalibanSwatter
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No Time to Surrender
Express Tribune
A few days ago, 27 different political parties reached the common conclusion that the best way to deal with the Taliban was to negotiate with them. I have no words to describe my contempt for the worthies who attended that conclave. But I am reminded of the words a law school friend of mine once used to address opposing counsel: “If you were on fire, I wouldn’t waste the piss to put you out.”
Let me concede that I appear increasingly to be in a minority. Apparently, the burden is now on warmongers like myself to justify our continued opposition to talks. This is my attempt to do so.
Let’s begin with the obvious questions: who are the Taliban? And what do they want?
The word ‘Taliban’ is the plural of the word ‘talib’ which, in turn, is an Arabic word that refers to a student. The term ‘Taliban’ in its current form was originally used to describe the seminary-educated followers of Mullah Omar when he swept to power in Afghanistan in 1994 and has subsequently been used ever since to describe both his followers, as well as people who believe in his particular vision of Islam.
In the particular context of Pakistan, the term ‘Taliban’ is a misnomer. This is because the Taliban proper (i.e., the militants who follow Mullah Omar and who oppose the US presence in Afghanistan) are an Afghan-oriented group interested in seeking power in Afghanistan. At the same time, there are multiple religiously motivated groups in Pakistan who seek to replicate the Taliban’s efforts in Pakistan, one of which is called the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (the ‘TTP’
. If we are talking about negotiating with the Taliban in respect of areas within Pakistan, then it needs to be understood that we are talking about negotiating with the TTP and other similar organisations.
Second question: what do the TTP want? The short answer is that the TTP want power; that they want to do in Pakistan what the Taliban did in Afghanistan. The slightly longer answer is that they seek a Pakistan in which the only law is their interpretation of the Sharia, in which music, dancing and all forms of joy are banned, in which women are effectively enslaved, in which Shias are wajib ul qatal and in which the penalty for dissent is death.
On what basis then do we negotiate with the TTP? Unless negotiation means persuading the TTP to surrender, there are only two options. The first is that we compromise geographically and allow the TTP to take over power in certain areas. The second is that we revise the Constitution and the laws of this country. In each case, the quid pro quo would be for the TTP to demand no more.
The problem is that any such agreement with the TTP would be treasonous. And I use the word ‘treason’ with deliberation.
Article 5 of the Constitution provides first that “Loyalty to the State is the basic duty of every citizen” and second that “Obedience to the Constitution and law is the obligation of every citizen wherever he may be and of every other person for the time being within Pakistan”. If I have accurately described the agenda of the TTP, there is no possible negotiated result acceptable to them that will not result in disloyalty to the State and disobedience to the Constitution.
The TTP have made it abundantly clear that they do not accept the Constitution of Pakistan as legitimate. To give power to the TTP is to, therefore, concede that the state of Pakistan is fundamentally illegitimate. And any citizen of Pakistan who makes such a concession is committing treason: handing over Pakistani territory to the TTP is no different from handing over Pakistani territory to India.
In his column from a few days ago, Nadir Hassan referred to negotiations with the IRA, the Afghan Taliban and Palestine in order to contend that we should talk to the Pakistani Taliban. So far as I am concerned, this argument proves my point. If you believe that Pakistan’s claim to dominion over Fata is as bogus as Israel’s claim to Palestine, then please do talk to the TTP. But then recognise that you are also conceding the illegitimacy of the Pakistani state.
What then about the alternative? Why not jettison the Constitution in favour of the Holy Quran and Sunnah?
The short answer is that unless one is a moron (or an apologist for the TTP) one has to accept that there are multiple interpretations possible of what is permissible under Islam; which in turn begs the question of how one is to decide the correct interpretation; which is why we have a democracy; and, more importantly, which is why we have a Constitution. The media stars who hail the TTP would not last 24 hours under TTP rule. The fact that they know it and yet continue to peddle their rubbish is despicable.
Ah, you may say, but we are not talking about changing the Constitution for the whole country, just for Fata and other tribal areas. My question is why does that make a difference? Leaving aside the stupidity of believing that the TTP will be content with ruling just a small part of Pakistan, what part of throwing the population of Fata to the wolves is morally defensible? Please understand that the TTP do not represent the indigenous culture of Fata any more than Hitler represented the indigenous culture of Germany.
The only argument we are left with then is the necessity argument; that we are too dumb, too corrupt, too stupid and too confused to fight back and so we might as well surrender gracefully. My response to that is unprintable. If that is true of us then yes, we deserve to be ruled by the barbarian hordes. But it is not true. The only reason we do not respond is because the gentlemen running our country can’t be bothered to take time out from vandalising the exchequer.
Pakistan is in crisis today not because we lack capability but because our leaders lack faith. We may or may not find the will to defend ourselves. But I promise you that surrender is not the option.
Express Tribune
A few days ago, 27 different political parties reached the common conclusion that the best way to deal with the Taliban was to negotiate with them. I have no words to describe my contempt for the worthies who attended that conclave. But I am reminded of the words a law school friend of mine once used to address opposing counsel: “If you were on fire, I wouldn’t waste the piss to put you out.”
Let me concede that I appear increasingly to be in a minority. Apparently, the burden is now on warmongers like myself to justify our continued opposition to talks. This is my attempt to do so.
Let’s begin with the obvious questions: who are the Taliban? And what do they want?
The word ‘Taliban’ is the plural of the word ‘talib’ which, in turn, is an Arabic word that refers to a student. The term ‘Taliban’ in its current form was originally used to describe the seminary-educated followers of Mullah Omar when he swept to power in Afghanistan in 1994 and has subsequently been used ever since to describe both his followers, as well as people who believe in his particular vision of Islam.
In the particular context of Pakistan, the term ‘Taliban’ is a misnomer. This is because the Taliban proper (i.e., the militants who follow Mullah Omar and who oppose the US presence in Afghanistan) are an Afghan-oriented group interested in seeking power in Afghanistan. At the same time, there are multiple religiously motivated groups in Pakistan who seek to replicate the Taliban’s efforts in Pakistan, one of which is called the Tehreek-e-Taliban Pakistan (the ‘TTP’
. If we are talking about negotiating with the Taliban in respect of areas within Pakistan, then it needs to be understood that we are talking about negotiating with the TTP and other similar organisations.Second question: what do the TTP want? The short answer is that the TTP want power; that they want to do in Pakistan what the Taliban did in Afghanistan. The slightly longer answer is that they seek a Pakistan in which the only law is their interpretation of the Sharia, in which music, dancing and all forms of joy are banned, in which women are effectively enslaved, in which Shias are wajib ul qatal and in which the penalty for dissent is death.
On what basis then do we negotiate with the TTP? Unless negotiation means persuading the TTP to surrender, there are only two options. The first is that we compromise geographically and allow the TTP to take over power in certain areas. The second is that we revise the Constitution and the laws of this country. In each case, the quid pro quo would be for the TTP to demand no more.
The problem is that any such agreement with the TTP would be treasonous. And I use the word ‘treason’ with deliberation.
Article 5 of the Constitution provides first that “Loyalty to the State is the basic duty of every citizen” and second that “Obedience to the Constitution and law is the obligation of every citizen wherever he may be and of every other person for the time being within Pakistan”. If I have accurately described the agenda of the TTP, there is no possible negotiated result acceptable to them that will not result in disloyalty to the State and disobedience to the Constitution.
The TTP have made it abundantly clear that they do not accept the Constitution of Pakistan as legitimate. To give power to the TTP is to, therefore, concede that the state of Pakistan is fundamentally illegitimate. And any citizen of Pakistan who makes such a concession is committing treason: handing over Pakistani territory to the TTP is no different from handing over Pakistani territory to India.
In his column from a few days ago, Nadir Hassan referred to negotiations with the IRA, the Afghan Taliban and Palestine in order to contend that we should talk to the Pakistani Taliban. So far as I am concerned, this argument proves my point. If you believe that Pakistan’s claim to dominion over Fata is as bogus as Israel’s claim to Palestine, then please do talk to the TTP. But then recognise that you are also conceding the illegitimacy of the Pakistani state.
What then about the alternative? Why not jettison the Constitution in favour of the Holy Quran and Sunnah?
The short answer is that unless one is a moron (or an apologist for the TTP) one has to accept that there are multiple interpretations possible of what is permissible under Islam; which in turn begs the question of how one is to decide the correct interpretation; which is why we have a democracy; and, more importantly, which is why we have a Constitution. The media stars who hail the TTP would not last 24 hours under TTP rule. The fact that they know it and yet continue to peddle their rubbish is despicable.
Ah, you may say, but we are not talking about changing the Constitution for the whole country, just for Fata and other tribal areas. My question is why does that make a difference? Leaving aside the stupidity of believing that the TTP will be content with ruling just a small part of Pakistan, what part of throwing the population of Fata to the wolves is morally defensible? Please understand that the TTP do not represent the indigenous culture of Fata any more than Hitler represented the indigenous culture of Germany.
The only argument we are left with then is the necessity argument; that we are too dumb, too corrupt, too stupid and too confused to fight back and so we might as well surrender gracefully. My response to that is unprintable. If that is true of us then yes, we deserve to be ruled by the barbarian hordes. But it is not true. The only reason we do not respond is because the gentlemen running our country can’t be bothered to take time out from vandalising the exchequer.
Pakistan is in crisis today not because we lack capability but because our leaders lack faith. We may or may not find the will to defend ourselves. But I promise you that surrender is not the option.
True pakistani 22
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170 People has been Arrested in Quetta Killing case
that show Govt is serious on it
i think it is right time for Pakistan army to do Operation against Laskar-e-Jhagive
that show Govt is serious on it
i think it is right time for Pakistan army to do Operation against Laskar-e-Jhagive
Mosamania
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First of all rest in peace to the dead, this is a heinous crime and a most vile terrorist attack against peaceful civilians. This act can only come from the lowliest of people and I hope justice will be delivered swiftly and aptly.
Second of all, it is extremelly saddening that this terrible incident is used by political activist to sow hate and distrust to Saudi Arabia and is taken as a glorious opportunity by them to spread their hate and immediately point their fingers to us. To make it clear if any religious figure in here would dare utter "Shias are kafir etc." he will not last 24 hours without swift retaliation by law so it does not make any sense to me how quickly these people point their fingers to us in blame.
Although I can not deny that a certain element within our society do propagate a certain vile and sickening way of thought they however in no way represent the Saudi government and society, and they are as much hated by us as you, we do our best to fight their plague however they are not country specific and the same way of thought does not propagate from Saudi Arabia in anyway and is a collection of many people of different nationalities and all of them are in no way representatives of thier respective countries of origin just as how this heinous crime does not represent Pakistani government and society in anyway.
Religious extremism is systemically fought here and suppressed quite effectively and have lead to the weeding out of such elements of our society and to think that the crusade launched by us against them equals to support as many here point out then that lacks even the tiniest thread of sense.
Shias and Sunnis are all brothers in Islam, and before that they are brothers in humanity, and fanatics from both ends of the spectrum seek to assert their supremacy over one another to devastating effect. And I am sure me alongside every Saudi condemn this act and would like to see its carriers brought to justice as fast as possible.
@Hyperion @Irfan Baloch @Armstrong @WebMaster @Zakii @muse
Second of all, it is extremelly saddening that this terrible incident is used by political activist to sow hate and distrust to Saudi Arabia and is taken as a glorious opportunity by them to spread their hate and immediately point their fingers to us. To make it clear if any religious figure in here would dare utter "Shias are kafir etc." he will not last 24 hours without swift retaliation by law so it does not make any sense to me how quickly these people point their fingers to us in blame.
Although I can not deny that a certain element within our society do propagate a certain vile and sickening way of thought they however in no way represent the Saudi government and society, and they are as much hated by us as you, we do our best to fight their plague however they are not country specific and the same way of thought does not propagate from Saudi Arabia in anyway and is a collection of many people of different nationalities and all of them are in no way representatives of thier respective countries of origin just as how this heinous crime does not represent Pakistani government and society in anyway.
Religious extremism is systemically fought here and suppressed quite effectively and have lead to the weeding out of such elements of our society and to think that the crusade launched by us against them equals to support as many here point out then that lacks even the tiniest thread of sense.
Shias and Sunnis are all brothers in Islam, and before that they are brothers in humanity, and fanatics from both ends of the spectrum seek to assert their supremacy over one another to devastating effect. And I am sure me alongside every Saudi condemn this act and would like to see its carriers brought to justice as fast as possible.
@Hyperion @Irfan Baloch @Armstrong @WebMaster @Zakii @muse
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Manas
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Bullshit !!
Pakistan army isn't going strong after these terrorists since it believes these groups will be used in Kashmir once the Nato forces leaves Afghanistan in 2014 and that day is coming near.
Othewise if one go Pakistani media Siphah -i- sahiba leaders regularly enjoy evening tea with Gen Hamid Gul and Hapiz syed .
American Pakistani
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Oh Allah! the last girl made me cry
i can feel pain in myself so think about this little girl who lost her father.These m0f0 terrorist should be arrested & thrown into the sea of these angry Hazara brothers & give them permission to do whatever they want to do with those worst creatures. Terrorist should be tortured to death.
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Paan Singh
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I will suggest you to watch.It clears doubt that civil govt have sympathizers with LEJ.Even PMLN gave few seats to them.
or in simple words,army no longer controls the local issues as it used to be.There was huge blunder when army did operation in SWAT but civil dint cooperate at that time.Now army dont want to face the same position.
dravidianhero
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Paan Singh
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Oh Allah! the last girl made me cry
These m0f0 terrorist should be arrested & thrown into the sea of these angry Hazara brothers & give them permission to do whatever they want to do with those worst creatures. Terrorist should be tortured to death.
very sad incident...and shameful to see those little kids crying and taking pain.
very sad n sorry for these guys
dravidianhero
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Education plays a key role in bringing down the religious extremism and superstitions.Pak was relatively peaceful until 2000.I donno what stopped them improving their literacy rate.saudis were no more than just bedouins less than even a century but look how peaceful their country is now.All it requires is a strong will from a strong leader.India also has share of its problems but when i look at those helpless pakistanis i feel myself blessed to be living in india .india is ugly but better than pakistan.
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Breaking News:
The protesters at 772 places throughout the country have refused to end sit in unless some high ranked responsible Army representative himself doesnot show up in the sit in protest at Quetta and ensure that operation against Lashkar-e-Jhangvi is carried out...
The protesters at 772 places throughout the country have refused to end sit in unless some high ranked responsible Army representative himself doesnot show up in the sit in protest at Quetta and ensure that operation against Lashkar-e-Jhangvi is carried out...
Mosamania
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In 2003 Al-Qaeda launched a gruesom battle called it "Purification of Arabia battle" of which a very tense and gruesome 3 years followed, during these years Special Operations units were carrying out operations against them systemically, GIP, SWAT, and Navy Seals conducted operations against them that resulted in many terrorists killed and captured and effectively broken Al-Qaeda's back in Arabian Peninsula and forced them to run away into the safety of lawless areas of Yemen.
To think after all these operations and the brave men we lost fighting them "Is just an act" as many people here claim is beyond sticking. And further more than we are supporting them despite them launching a war against us is laughable beyond compare.
Fighting them of course does not just mean hitting them with bullets, we realize that the original and most fundamental fight is a fight against Ideology, and so we fought and currently are fighting this ideology with a counter ideology, a progressive, moderate ideology. And that is where the real battle is taking place.
And then people shamelessly say we propagate the very ideology we are at bitter lock heads against?? These people are just devoid of both reason and common sense. But then again, hate is blinding, and as we say "The haters eyes on,y brings out what it likes to see".
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