Blast in Karachi

[Huda]

so sad
*****

 

[mehru]

it makes perfect sense as talibans have been for like 20 years and hitting mazar makes no sense, hitting public places makes more sense.

Taliban claims responsibility in blasts at shrine in Pakistan - CNN.com

 

[mehru]

Authorities in Karachi said the bombers detonated their explosives outside the shrine's main entrance, where visitors must pass through an electronic security gate.

Pakistan bombings: 8 killed in bombings at Muslim shrine in Pakistan - latimes.com

 

[T-Faz]

Bzzzt! Bzzzt! Isn't Pakistan a democracy? So if you think someone is leading you the wrong way, see if you can strike a different path and convince others to follow. If not, you only have yourself to blame, yes?

Though it's not the ideal democracy, we have been trying for some time and will continue to do so. The task at hand would take a lot of time but we will not give up.

Though we failed in the past and that is the reason why we are in the position that we are in. Odds are against us but greater things have happened.

If only the 1981 coup had been succesful but alas it wasn't, but we will get a chance in future to set things right.

 

[Pasban]

Another sad day in Karachi. O' God, give comfort to those who have lost loved ones, give them courage and give us, your worshipers, the ability to rout out this menace from the society. It is Thee who we worship and Thine aid we seek. Elohi Ameen.

 

[Solomon2]

If only the 1981 coup had been succesful but alas it wasn't, but we will get a chance in future to set things right.

You don't get it, do you?

All politics is local

- Tip O'Neill, longtime Speaker of the U.S. House of Representatives

I think this "it's up to the political circles"/"wish coup had succeeded" bit is part of a colonialist/imperialist mentality; you are thinking like a subject or master, not a citizen. Get with it: in a democracy nobody "seizes" government power, it's a contractual arrangement between citizens and the elect.

No wonder terrorists are blowing things up; they see it as asserting their own mastery on the road to power.

 

[T-Faz]

You don't get it, do you?

I think this "it's up to the political circles"/"wish coup had succeeded" bit is part of a colonialist/imperialist mentality; you are thinking like a subject or master, not a citizen. Get with it: in a democracy nobody "seizes" government power, it's a contractual arrangement between citizens and the elect.

No wonder terrorists are blowing things up; they see it as asserting their own mastery on the road to power.

I don't think that you get it. It does not work the way you think it does around here. The system suits a particular group and they have been able to coerce the populace into believing whatever illogical rational that is fed to them. The first thing that we have to achieve is that we have to alter the mindset of people and that is being done to a great extent. Once a clear majority is indoctrinated with the correct thoughts, only then they will have the will to dictate the government elected by them.

In Pakistan, we do not have a contractual arrangement in regards to our government set up but rather a coercion of sorts. That is the reason why feudal lords and religious leaders keep getting reelected.

Also your statement is illogical as it is clearly not applicable to a place like Pakistan. Democracy here is in name only, slowly things are being done to change all that.

Those who have not known a place, do not know how it works. That is why it is better to stay away from giving ineffective advice that will only make things worst.

 

[darkinsky]

Taliban claims responsibility in blasts at shrine in Pakistan - CNN.com

BS, just media propaganda thats all..

 

[Solomon2]

The system suits a particular group and they have been able to coerce the populace into believing whatever illogical rational that is fed to them.

Yes, that's what has to be changed.

The first thing that we have to achieve is that we have to alter the mindset of people and that is being done to a great extent.

No. The first thing you have to do is choose your principles. You can then try selling that to your neighbors. Even if you fail merely the process will encourage people to think, yes?

In Pakistan, we do not have a contractual arrangement in regards to our government set up but rather a coercion of sorts.

If the moneyed elite engage in coercion by force that needs to be exposed as publicly as possible. Yet I don't see Pakistanis setting up press conferences in Washington to shine light in such dark places, but rather to denounce the country that tries help them in their battle against darkness itself.

Democracy here is in name only, slowly things are being done to change all that.

Certainly the elite can do something. Disraeli was instrumental at opening British democracy to the common man. But without support at the grass-roots level, members of Pakistan's elite will not act outside the interests of their class.

Those who have not known a place, do not know how it works.

Truly I have not been to Pakistan, but that doesn't mean I can't understand it through study and apply relevant historical analogies. In eighteenth century Britain a highly corrupt political class held people down during a period of explosive population growth, industrial development, military expansion, and armed domestic revolts, consciously supporting religion as a means to increase social control of the masses.

Does that sound familiar to you? If it does, don't you think Pakistan could solve its problems the same way - maybe even faster and better than Britain has - if Pakistanis learned a few lessons from history?

...it is better to stay away from giving ineffective advice that will only make things worst.

Labeling a course of action "ineffective" can, by definition, only be applied after the act. "Silly" is what you mean, I guess. Well, if you can show me that my arguments are rot, I'll agree. But if you can't, what does that mean you should do?

 

[Tuahaa]

Yes! Pakistan is to blame, oh high Solomon.

Okay, we get the point, we admitted it many times, what is your point exactly?

 

[T-Faz]

No. The first thing you have to do is choose your principles. You can then try selling that to your neighbors. Even if you fail merely the process will encourage people to think, yes?

Our principle were outlined by our founding father very well, wouldn't you say. The problem that we face currently is that after years of instrumental brainwashing of our society, the principles have been distorted. All we have to do is reinforce the original plan of Pakistan and in doing so challenge the inadequate system that we have in place.

If the moneyed elite engage in coercion by force that needs to be exposed as publicly as possible. Yet I don't see Pakistanis setting up press conferences in Washington to shine light in such dark places, but rather to denounce the country that tries help them in their battle against darkness itself.

It has been exposed on various levels but for some reason it is never given the promotion it needs and the support it requires. Also, many of our own who sit in the west are part of the elite who would not want their power or wealth to be damaged in any manner or form.

Certainly the elite can do something. Disraeli was instrumental at opening British democracy to the common man. But without support at the grass-roots level, members of Pakistan's elite will not act outside the interests of their class.

The ones who have actually tried to help so far are either killed or excommunicated. In our environment, you are either part of the mass corruption or you get shut out by the big wigs. Happened to many including my father and grandfather. The latter died trying to make this country a better place.

Truly I have not been to Pakistan, but that doesn't mean I can't understand it through study and apply relevant historical analogies. In eighteenth century Britain a highly corrupt political class held people down during a period of explosive population growth, industrial development, military expansion, and armed domestic revolts, consciously supporting religion as a means to increase social control of the masses.

Does that sound familiar to you? If it does, don't you think Pakistan could solve its problems the same way - maybe even faster and better than Britain has - if Pakistanis learned a few lessons from history?

Many parallels can be made between us and different nations from centuries ago. Similarly, Jinnah too stated that we must learn from the lessons of past, especially Europe. We did not pay heed to his advice and today we are stuck in a rut which can only be sorted by ourself.

Labeling a course of action "ineffective" can, by definition, only be applied after the act. "Silly" is what you mean, I guess. Well, if you can show me that my arguments are rot, I'll agree. But if you can't, what does that mean you should do?

The thing is that ground realities would not be compatible with given course of action. You have to realize the scale of problem we face where simple words can induce conspiracies and angry fits within a substantial section of Pakistan. The advice you have given is only applicable to those who actually know they have the power to dictate things.

You should visit Pakistan some time, you will learn more about the country itself and realize how many variations are present even in small matters. It is a lovely country, cant say the same about the people though.

 

[Solomon2]

what is your point exactly?

If you work hard to make democratic principles a reality in Pakistan, not only won't the extremists be motivated to blow things up but the remainder on the fringe will be prosecuted afterward or likely be discovered and dealt with before the act, for many citizens will wish to inform on them, as Pakistan will be one all-inclusive society.

 

[Tuahaa]

If you work hard to make democratic principles a reality in Pakistan, not only won't the extremists be motivated to blow things up but the remainder on the fringe will be prosecuted afterward or likely be discovered and dealt with before the act, for many citizens will wish to inform on them, as Pakistan will be one all-inclusive society.

While it might be okay to sing the song of democracy, remember that democracy doesn't always mean good.

A leader is a leader. Good or bad. No matter how he came to power, I would prefer a good leader.

With democracy, foreign powers that have heavy involvement in our country (US- hint, hint) will find it much easier to establish a puppet government.

 

[iPhone]

what my post has to do with zia? i was not born when Zia was reforming or distorting anything around.

read my reply again and try to understand what i said.

This is not the only attack that had taken place. Terrorists have been attacking almost everyone we all have been targeted.

You people blow things out of proportion if the target has some ethnic of sectarian aspect.

Thats it otherwise its simply another terrorist act.

Wow, wow, either you are very naive or you share the same demented wahabi agenda of the Taliban toward brailewi sufi mizaars of spiritual buzargs. A suicide blast inside data darbar and Abdullah shah gazi holds no significance, it's just a random public place, people are blowing it out of proportion, wow, I hav come across many ignorent lots but you just take the cake.

Let me be clear about this as many here are afraid to. There is no one else but wahabi Taliban behind this heinous act, their wahabi sympathizers in society try to cover their mad dogs' terrorist acts by mentioning 'conspiracy theories' blame it on the west and confuse the public and of course their wahabi financers sitting in saudia.

It's just a shame that the govt, law enforcement agencies and armed forces have failed to uproot this wahabi menace completely, either they are incompetent or they refuse to eradicate them. Whatever the case average Pakistanis are facing the wrath of wahabi terrorism.

 

[Meengla]

If you work hard to make democratic principles a reality in Pakistan, not only won't the extremists be motivated to blow things up but the remainder on the fringe will be prosecuted afterward or likely be discovered and dealt with before the act, for many citizens will wish to inform on them, as Pakistan will be one all-inclusive society.

@Solomon2,
There is indeed a lot of self-flagellations amongst Pakistanis. Perhaps the most self-critical nation in the world?! I know this is a 'defence' forum where gung-ho-ism tends to be rather common. But even here Pakistanis find various ways to criticize their past/present leaders and all too often themselves or the larger society.

My point being there is no complacency in Pakistanis. No Pakistanis feel joy when Mumbai like terrorism happen. Not many who like Faisal Shezhad like clowns. There is a lot of self-criticism. There is a need to reform and people are aware of that. Far from what you or other visitors may think, Pakistanis have risen against all military dictators. Read the history and see how people rose against Gen. Ayub Khan in late '60s despite Khan's 'decade of growth' (or whatever he called it). More dictators tasted the same down the road.

Today, Kiyani knows that he will not last long should he mount a coup. He could say $uck America but domestically it will be different. Mark my word!

Problem with Pakistan is that Pakistani is in a very tough neighborhood. Very tough. Perhaps the toughest in the world. I wish Pakistan were an island nation in the middle of the Pacific but that is not so. So many foreign powers have found ways to bring Pakistani rulers on-board. Why did Ayub had to be part of the anti-Soviet block to the extent he was is just the beginning. He virtually gave the Soviets the middle finger without being provoked.
And having relatively low-resource, high population, low literacy, high religion country on top of the so-called 'Geo-Strategic Location' has made it even worse.

You should see how a hijacked functioning democracy has made America to fall from the pinnacle of power of the 50s to what it is now--in a mere few decades-- despite all geo-strategic advantages (an island nation with thousands of miles of protection on both sides), high literacy level, great natural resources.... Whether you believe it or not, short of a revolution America is becoming a 'has been' in the world.

Some kind of circumspection is needed more than smugness on your part. Yes, you are smug and condescending, as usual. I think your forte is finding copy/paste excuses from the Israeli Megaphone Brigade. T