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Blast at Jamia Naeemia; Dr Sarfraz martyred

Taliban apologists like qsaark are dime a dozen - it would be best to ignore the poor fool along with his 'scientific analysis'...what a joke!

Comments such as these are completely out of line.

These are considered personal attacks and will not be tolerated.

Some of you have made good arguments, yet ruined the post with comments such as these. Please don't make us start deleting the entire post, and lose the good with the bad.

Qsaarks argument, with which I disagree as well, can be debunked with civility, and not with name calling and personal attacks.

And like he said, lets leave peoples professions and personal lives out of this.
 
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I came across this today. My apologies if this already been posted elsewhere. I find it very poignant that sectarian kilings for Shia/Sunni are now spreading over to Deoband/Braelvi.

Sunday, June 14, 2009

Share this story!
EDITORIAL: Death of Mufti Naeemi...

Taliban warlord Baitullah Mehsud has admitted the killing of Mufti Sarfraz Naeemi in Lahore through a teenaged suicide-bomber after the Friday prayer congregation at Jamia Naeemia. The reason for this murder was not far too seek. Mufti Naeemi, arguably the most influential of the Ahle Sunnat-Barelvi school of thought in Pakistan, had recently presided over an all-Barelvi conference in Islamabad condemning the Taliban practice of suicide-bombing, and presenting to the nation, as it were, a choice between the extremist Deobandi Taliban and the moderate Ahle Sunnat clerical confederation.

“Barelvi” is not an epithet that Ahle Sunnat favour, but it is a convenient way of describing a whole religious trend in Pakistan that is based on the shrines of the great saints of Islam, truly representing the grassroots culture of Pakistan which is free of sectarian bias. That is not to say that the Ahle Sunnat don’t have madrassas. Together with Mufti Munibur Rehman, the Barelvi chairman of the moon-sighting committee, Mufti Naeemi administered the 6,000 Barelvi madrassas. But the conduct of covert jihad by the state had thrown the Barelvis into obscurity and lack of street power over the years. Their mosques, once in majority in the country, were either grabbed by the more powerful Deobandis with trained jihadi cadres who could be violent, or simply outnumbered by the more resourceful Deobandi-linked ones.

Mufti Naeemi and his Ahle Sunnat clerics had no hesitation in condemning the pronouncements of Sufi Muhammad in Swat. The Deobandis, led by Karachi’s powerful Mufti Rafi Usmani, were not as forthcoming, thus putting on record the Barelvi-Deobandi split. When in 2005 Mufti Munibur Rehman and dozens of clerics produced a collective fatwa that the use of suicide-bombing against fellow-Muslims was not permitted in Islam, he received threats and there was severe criticism from the Deobandi clerical community. The hardness of the Deobandi school of thought springs also from non-acceptance of the Shia community as true Muslims. One bone of contention between the Barelvis and Deobandis is that the former don’t apostatise the Shia.

The Taliban attack on mosques is not new. In the 1990s and early 2000s, a large number of Shia mosques were attacked with large casualties. In Dera Ismail Khan, Shia mosques have been attacked and after that funerals of the Shia dead have been blown up by suicide-bombings. In Quetta, organisations linked to the Taliban and Al Qaeda have attacked ashura processions with high casualty. The Barelvis have been attacked too for being “soft” on the Shia while the state of Pakistan and the Taliban were fighting a “relocated” war against Iran. In 2006, a grand Barelvi congregation celebrating the birthday of the Holy Prophet on Eid Miladun Nabi at Nishtar Park, Karachi, was suicide-bombed. Out of the 1500 that had gathered, 57 died while over a hundred were injured, literally decapitating the Ahle Sunnat community of the city.

The power of the Deobandi clergy is owed to two jihads that the state fought in the 1990s. The “non-state actors” that went into Kashmir were trained in the camps of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, but only the Deobandis qualified since the Deobandi-dominated Pashtuns of Afghanistan did not accept any Barelvi recruits. Their trained manpower is their street power against the Barelvis. Small-time clerics in the countryside have begun to lean in favour of the tougher Islam of the Deobandis because it gives them a sense of empowerment against the state, especially after the union of the Deobandi jihadi militias like Jaish-e Muhammad and Lashkar-e Jhangvi with the Taliban of Baitullah Mehsud and its patron Al Qaeda.

When Mufti Naeemi spoke against the Taliban he was careful to dub them not Taliban but “agents of America” and enemies of Islam; yet he must have known that the power of the Taliban lay in South Punjab from where teenaged suicide-bombers were taken by Baitullah Mehsud and trained by his infamous lieutenant Qari Hussain. The power of the Taliban lies not so much in the tribal areas as in Punjab — and that includes elements close to the madrassa of Mufti Naeemi in Garhi Shahu, Lahore. This power also lies in the well-endowed Deobandi madrassas of Karachi revealed to be over 3,000 with mostly Pashtun students from the FATA region. His animus against the jihad-promoting state was owed also to this unspoken factor. *

SECOND EDITORIAL...and the obligation of the state

President Asif Ali Zardari, speaking to the nation late Friday night, said that the army and the people were united in the war against the Taliban. He said that the national consensus against the Taliban was represented by the parliament which had condemned the acts of violence of the Taliban and given the army the mandate to fight them. But the state of Pakistan too must follow by modifying its conduct. The first obligation of the state is to move against the spread of extremist thinking adopted by the people at large in consequence of almost 30 years of jihad that the state had sponsored.

The state must protect the unarmed clergy against the armed clergy but without “empowering” the Barelvis as a counterforce against the Taliban. After the Barelvi consensus developed under Mufti Naeemi there was some opinion in favour of “enabling” the Barelvis to fight the Deobandis — “fight mullahs with mullahs”. If this is done it will simply compound the dereliction of the state that has encouraged the world to regard Pakistan as a kind of rogue state which also kills it own people. What has to be done is to empower the state itself against killers espousing extremist programmes. And this will have to be done by increasing the strength of the police and by training it better than we do today.

That the people of Pakistan are neither extremists nor sectarian by birth is proved by the fact that Pakistan has chosen Mr Zardari, a Shia, as their president. Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani is a direct descendant of the greatest mystical saint of Islam, Sheikh Abdul Qadir Gilani. (Mr Gilani’s son is actually named Abdul Qadir Gilani!) Ahle Sunnat-Barelvis usually have names ending with Qadri to show their devotion to the great saint. In the eyes of the Taliban and their Wahhabi patrons this leadership may be anathema, but for Pakistan it is proof that the people of Pakistan are not sectarian-minded and even today revere the founder of the nation, Quaid-e Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah, who was a Shia. The state however went astray and must now mend its ways. *

Home | Editorial

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan
 
.
I came across this today. My apologies if this already been posted elsewhere. I find it very poignant that sectarian kilings for Shia/Sunni are now spreading over to Deoband/Braelvi.

Sunday, June 14, 2009

Share this story!
EDITORIAL: Death of Mufti Naeemi...

Taliban warlord Baitullah Mehsud has admitted the killing of Mufti Sarfraz Naeemi in Lahore through a teenaged suicide-bomber after the Friday prayer congregation at Jamia Naeemia. The reason for this murder was not far too seek. Mufti Naeemi, arguably the most influential of the Ahle Sunnat-Barelvi school of thought in Pakistan, had recently presided over an all-Barelvi conference in Islamabad condemning the Taliban practice of suicide-bombing, and presenting to the nation, as it were, a choice between the extremist Deobandi Taliban and the moderate Ahle Sunnat clerical confederation.

“Barelvi” is not an epithet that Ahle Sunnat favour, but it is a convenient way of describing a whole religious trend in Pakistan that is based on the shrines of the great saints of Islam, truly representing the grassroots culture of Pakistan which is free of sectarian bias. That is not to say that the Ahle Sunnat don’t have madrassas. Together with Mufti Munibur Rehman, the Barelvi chairman of the moon-sighting committee, Mufti Naeemi administered the 6,000 Barelvi madrassas. But the conduct of covert jihad by the state had thrown the Barelvis into obscurity and lack of street power over the years. Their mosques, once in majority in the country, were either grabbed by the more powerful Deobandis with trained jihadi cadres who could be violent, or simply outnumbered by the more resourceful Deobandi-linked ones.

Mufti Naeemi and his Ahle Sunnat clerics had no hesitation in condemning the pronouncements of Sufi Muhammad in Swat. The Deobandis, led by Karachi’s powerful Mufti Rafi Usmani, were not as forthcoming, thus putting on record the Barelvi-Deobandi split. When in 2005 Mufti Munibur Rehman and dozens of clerics produced a collective fatwa that the use of suicide-bombing against fellow-Muslims was not permitted in Islam, he received threats and there was severe criticism from the Deobandi clerical community. The hardness of the Deobandi school of thought springs also from non-acceptance of the Shia community as true Muslims. One bone of contention between the Barelvis and Deobandis is that the former don’t apostatise the Shia.

The Taliban attack on mosques is not new. In the 1990s and early 2000s, a large number of Shia mosques were attacked with large casualties. In Dera Ismail Khan, Shia mosques have been attacked and after that funerals of the Shia dead have been blown up by suicide-bombings. In Quetta, organisations linked to the Taliban and Al Qaeda have attacked ashura processions with high casualty. The Barelvis have been attacked too for being “soft” on the Shia while the state of Pakistan and the Taliban were fighting a “relocated” war against Iran. In 2006, a grand Barelvi congregation celebrating the birthday of the Holy Prophet on Eid Miladun Nabi at Nishtar Park, Karachi, was suicide-bombed. Out of the 1500 that had gathered, 57 died while over a hundred were injured, literally decapitating the Ahle Sunnat community of the city.

The power of the Deobandi clergy is owed to two jihads that the state fought in the 1990s. The “non-state actors” that went into Kashmir were trained in the camps of Al Qaeda in Afghanistan, but only the Deobandis qualified since the Deobandi-dominated Pashtuns of Afghanistan did not accept any Barelvi recruits. Their trained manpower is their street power against the Barelvis. Small-time clerics in the countryside have begun to lean in favour of the tougher Islam of the Deobandis because it gives them a sense of empowerment against the state, especially after the union of the Deobandi jihadi militias like Jaish-e Muhammad and Lashkar-e Jhangvi with the Taliban of Baitullah Mehsud and its patron Al Qaeda.

When Mufti Naeemi spoke against the Taliban he was careful to dub them not Taliban but “agents of America” and enemies of Islam; yet he must have known that the power of the Taliban lay in South Punjab from where teenaged suicide-bombers were taken by Baitullah Mehsud and trained by his infamous lieutenant Qari Hussain. The power of the Taliban lies not so much in the tribal areas as in Punjab — and that includes elements close to the madrassa of Mufti Naeemi in Garhi Shahu, Lahore. This power also lies in the well-endowed Deobandi madrassas of Karachi revealed to be over 3,000 with mostly Pashtun students from the FATA region. His animus against the jihad-promoting state was owed also to this unspoken factor. *

SECOND EDITORIAL...and the obligation of the state

President Asif Ali Zardari, speaking to the nation late Friday night, said that the army and the people were united in the war against the Taliban. He said that the national consensus against the Taliban was represented by the parliament which had condemned the acts of violence of the Taliban and given the army the mandate to fight them. But the state of Pakistan too must follow by modifying its conduct. The first obligation of the state is to move against the spread of extremist thinking adopted by the people at large in consequence of almost 30 years of jihad that the state had sponsored.

The state must protect the unarmed clergy against the armed clergy but without “empowering” the Barelvis as a counterforce against the Taliban. After the Barelvi consensus developed under Mufti Naeemi there was some opinion in favour of “enabling” the Barelvis to fight the Deobandis — “fight mullahs with mullahs”. If this is done it will simply compound the dereliction of the state that has encouraged the world to regard Pakistan as a kind of rogue state which also kills it own people. What has to be done is to empower the state itself against killers espousing extremist programmes. And this will have to be done by increasing the strength of the police and by training it better than we do today.

That the people of Pakistan are neither extremists nor sectarian by birth is proved by the fact that Pakistan has chosen Mr Zardari, a Shia, as their president. Prime Minister Yousaf Raza Gilani is a direct descendant of the greatest mystical saint of Islam, Sheikh Abdul Qadir Gilani. (Mr Gilani’s son is actually named Abdul Qadir Gilani!) Ahle Sunnat-Barelvis usually have names ending with Qadri to show their devotion to the great saint. In the eyes of the Taliban and their Wahhabi patrons this leadership may be anathema, but for Pakistan it is proof that the people of Pakistan are not sectarian-minded and even today revere the founder of the nation, Quaid-e Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah, who was a Shia. The state however went astray and must now mend its ways. *

Home | Editorial

Daily Times - Leading News Resource of Pakistan

I dont agree with you sir, Talaban dont killed Mullana due to his brelvi or deobandi faith, they are against every mufti who give fatwa against Suiciodal attacks.

They are criminals and dont have any faith,Tabaleegi Jamat also opposed talaban movement they belong to deoband faith.
 
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I would like to second Fundamentalist on his opinion on this. The author potrays the Deobandi school of thought as somehow being the facilitator which is far from truth as many Deobandi clerics have condemned Taliban right from the beginning (pre 9/11) Tablighi Jamaat although not prefessing to be a Deobandi group has some prominent scholars associated with it who made this clear.

The problem is that state sponsor of mujahedeen groups by CIA and ISI during the Afghan-USSR period used Deonbandi schooled mullas and students to find man power and hence their predominance in these groups today. Im sure everyone will agree that there are similar militant Shia and Barelvi groups as well that cause mayhem albeit at a smaller scale.
 
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Comments such as these are completely out of line.

These are considered personal attacks and will not be tolerated.

Some of you have made good arguments, yet ruined the post with comments such as these. Please don't make us start deleting the entire post, and lose the good with the bad.

Qsaarks argument, with which I disagree as well, can be debunked with civility, and not with name calling and personal attacks.

And like he said, lets leave peoples professions and personal lives out of this.

point taken - let me rephrase. Qsaark's argument is disingenous and not scientifically inclined in the least - it reminds me of arguments generally presented by Taliban apologists in the Jamaat Islami.
 
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Niaz, Ejaz, Fundamentalist, Talibswatter


The issue, it seems to me, is not a "if/or" issue, clearly the Talib insurgency wants to intimidate others who may want to stand up and say the talib have little relationship to Islam, however; it seems to me, that provoking sectarian conflict in society is a persistent ambition of the islamists, partciularly now that they are under intense pressure and want to deflect that pressure
 
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While the shut down pakistan wide over his death is really a positive sign, I am actually trying to understand whether such genuine shut downs are good for the economy ?

After all it would have caused business ( small scale ones atleast) a lot.

So maybe Taliban have a plan ?

Regards
 
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Always


It is meant to assign them "POLITICAL" legitimacy -- soon you will hear from Islamist parties and "useful idiots", who will call for an end to army action and "negotiations" or "talks" or "jirga".

Talib may then claim thatthey are entirely peaceful but their "armed wing" only responds when attacked.
 
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Orakzai-based Taliban claim responsibility for terror attacks

Monday, June 15, 2009
By Mushtaq Yusufzai & Syed Hasan Mahmud

PESHAWAR/KALAYA: After the Al-Qaeda-linked Abdullah Azzam Shaheed Brigade and the Baitullah Mehsud-led central Tehrik-e-Taliban Pakistan (TTP), the Orakzai Agency chapter of the TTP has claimed responsibility for the series of terrorist attacks across the country.

The banned TTP Orakzai Agency chief Maulana Saeed Khan claimed responsibility for all the recent terrorist attacks in the country, including the devastating attack on Peshawar’s lone five-star hotel, the Pearl Continental, and Friday’s suicide attack in Nowshera.

The 44-year-old Maulana Saeed said their prime target at the Pearl Continental

Hotel, Peshawar, were Western people, who were staying at the hotel. An unknown Al-Qaeda-linked group, Abdullah Azzam Shaheed Brigade, had already claimed responsibility for Tuesday’s suicide bombing at the Pearl Continental Hotel, Peshawar, in which 17 people were killed and around 60 injured.

Asked about the group, the outlawed TTP leader said they did not know about the organisation and its claim. Militant sources said Maulana Saeed was appointed TTP Orakzai Agency chief two months ago when Baitullah Mahsud called his trustworthy commander Hakimullah Mahsud to South Waziristan to lead his fighters against security forces in the Mehsud-inhabited areas of Ladha Tehsil. Maulana Saeed claimed that his men had assassinated Mufti Sarfaraz Naeemi in Lahore and carried out the suicide attack on a mosque in Nowshera.

Orakzai-based Taliban claim responsibility for terror attacks

-----------------------------------------------------

And now they are fighting over 'bragging rights'.

I believe there is little doubt left that the Taliban were the perpetrators.
 
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The hardness of the Deobandi school of thought springs also from non-acceptance of the Shia community as true Muslims

Shias are not true muslims Wahabis claim that while blowing up mosques (House of God) with suicide(its harram in Islam)bombers.They are anti education (To get educated travel as far as u need even as far as china(prophet Mohammed).yeah every thing about them sounds like a sign of true Muslim.
 
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We spoke earlier of how a "useful idiot" is always found to allieviate pressure and suggest some alternate option - below is a piece from todays DT -- to all those who love Jinnah's Pakistan, all insurgency have common parameters and we can use these to study and to predict their actions -- just my previous post on this thread



Pakistan on suicidal course, says Imran

LAHORE: Pakistan's military offensive against the Taliban will backfire and fuel more extremism and bomb attacks, Pakistan Tehreek-e-Insaaf (PTI) President Imran Khan warned last week while speaking in London. “I have never been so depressed in my life,” he said, adding, “Pakistan is on a suicidal course.” “I’m not pro-Taliban. But my point is, shouldn’t we have looked at other options? How do you justify using heavy artillery, helicopter gunships and F-16 fighter-jets in civilian areas? Who in the world does this? Meanwhile, the top Taliban leadership has escaped,” he said. daily times monitor
 
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Niaz, Ejaz, Fundamentalist, Talibswatter


The issue, it seems to me, is not a "if/or" issue, clearly the Talib insurgency wants to intimidate others who may want to stand up and say the talib have little relationship to Islam, however; it seems to me, that provoking sectarian conflict in society is a persistent ambition of the islamists, partciularly now that they are under intense pressure and want to deflect that pressure

Agreed it is similar to Al Qaeda tactic ,they use it in IRAQ.
 
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Shias are not true muslims Wahabis claim that while blowing up mosques (House of God) with suicide(its harram in Islam)bombers.They are anti education (To get educated travel as far as u need even as far as china(prophet Mohammed).yeah every thing about them sounds like a sign of true Muslim.

There are differences in both sects based on fiqa but deoband ullema have not given any fatwa of kufar against shia muslims.
 
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