Blasphemy accuser kills 80 year old man after police drop charges

[Thor]

There is no contradiction; citizens hunting for a fugitive are not judge, jury, and executioner. Citizens can help in the hunt for the accused, hand him over to the justice system, and help give the authorities the confidence that by prosecuting him to the fullest they will receive their support.

Have you thought that Thor's argument (that it is better to let a murderer run around loose and leave the responsibility for catching him to somebody else) is a much worse image of Pakistan than that of "a nation of vigilantes"? The latter seeks justice, whereas the former, witnessing evil, simply doesn't want to get its hair mussed.

Solomon, please, once again, dont talk outof the rear end........

What I said to you was that IF seen then he would be reported but not to be approached by me or others as the Police is the best equipped to deal with this matter. Pakistan is nothing special in this sort of actions. Below is a list of International Police advice to the public about criminals who should not be appraoched but reported to Police instead. Guess why, because people get injured and killed and again, ARE NOT BEST EQUIPPED TO DEAL WITH THE MATTER.

This is what I wrote in reply to your question

I didnt bother replying to the other part of your post as it was like many of your posts, just garbage and not a point raised to discuss.

I again notice you have not replied to my point of a clear condemnation of Judaism for promoting death for blasphemy and condemn blasphemy altogether.

What do I intend to do about it, NOTHING......... thats it, absolutely NOTHING, do you know why, because that is why I pay my taxes for a law enforcement constabulary to arrest and charge and put before the courts, I am not a vigilante and I will not in any way cause further chaos by adding my weight to disorder by apprehension or otherwise. Clearly, like any citizen, if the suspect is seen then he is to be reported unles already apprehended, otherwise the court of Law can deal with him.........PERIOD

and

Citizens arrest are carried out for indictable offences and murder is one, however as I have said before, the Law Enforcement is best equipped and trained to deal with such matters, so please stop trying to promote vigilantism on this forum and keep the hilly billy gun totting cowboy culture in the States.

As above, every citizen is not a Policeman and each works to its limits, hence as above, stop promoting the use of violence and viglantism and the institutions within Pakistan will take up the matter appropriately.........

Now for the International mdia and Police, starting with the US

MANHUNT WIDENS » Today's Front Page » The Register-Herald, Beckley, West Virginia

Australia

Hunt for 'dangerous' escapee - The West Australian

Ireland

Police advise public not to approach suspected rapist branded 'no danger' by David Ford - Northern Ireland, Local & National - Belfasttelegraph.co.uk


Maybe you get the hint, but then again, maybe you will not............ Pakistan is not a vigilante State and once again, PLEASE STOP PROMOTING VIOLENCE AND VIGILANTISM ON THIS FORUM

 

[Solomon2]

What I said to you was that IF seen then he would be reported but not to be approached by me -

Have you made the effort to discover what the accused looks like so you would recognize him? Why not post a photo here?

Pakistan is nothing special in this sort of actions.

Pakistan is special when it comes to rationalizing inaction. That's why the U.S. had to nab OBL itself rather than rely on the GoP.

Maybe you get the hint, but then again, maybe you will not............ Pakistan is not a vigilante State and once again, PLEASE STOP PROMOTING VIOLENCE AND VIGILANTISM ON THIS FORUM

Will you stop promoting blind submission to and acceptance of the decisions of authorities?

 

[Thor]

Have you made the effort to discover what the accused looks like so you would recognize him? Why not post a photo here?

Pakistan is special when it comes to rationalizing inaction. That's why the U.S. had to nab OBL itself rather than rely on the GoP.

Will you stop promoting blind submission to and acceptance of the decisions of authorities?

Solomon, your country is no role model, and again when the police find it suitable to issue the photo of the suspect they will do so, if you have a problem with that then so be it........ Your stupidity knows no bounds.... Keep your personal sh1t about physically going out and finding the suspect and being familiar with him to yourself and might I suggest you look closer to home in the US and make attempts to find the hundreds of wanted criminals in your country first.

Pakistan and the US are two different countries with a constitution and laws which all citizens are bound to....... Your little comment of the OBL issue is a deliberate attempt to go off topic and nothing more then a troll.... So please go elsewhere

 

[Solomon2]

Solomon, your country is no role model -

I take your response as a convoluted and extended way of saying, "No, I haven't done anything, nor do I intend to make any effort to do so."

 

[Solomon2]

To make it clear what I'm up to here, I'm trying to prod you guys into lifting a finger to defend yourselves and your country, rather than lifting a finger at me instead. If more Americans aren't functioning as "vigilantes" that's because we don't have the problems you do. I'm not the one pounding Pakistanis and their freedoms into dust, nor am I the one to protect you from someone else doing so.

 

[Thor]

To make it clear what I'm up to here, I'm trying to prod you guys into lifting a finger to defend yourselves and your country, rather than lifting a finger at me instead. If more Americans aren't functioning as "vigilantes" that's because we don't have the problems you do. I'm not the one pounding Pakistanis and their freedoms into dust, nor am I the one to protect you from someone else doing so.

Let me tell you what i am getting, the US is the root cause of all the problems here. None of the hijackers of 9/11 we Pakistani yet we got thruster Into a war of terror whereby genocide has been committed against an entire population thus spilling over into Pakistan pushed over by the US. Now Pakistan burns because of your country, which I would be more then happy to see F@&£ Off from this region or our leaders removed with a much more hard line leadership.

The Us has for far tooooooo long meddled into the affairs of a sovereign nation. You are a war mongering race of humans who know no bounds of bloodshed. We has spent over 50 billion dollars on this war and lost over 100 billion dollars in our economy which is on the verge of collapse. Our so called leaders, who the US put Into power through the NRO, as admitted by Condelezza Rice in her book who according to transparency international has looted over 93 billion dollars........SO PLEASE F@&£ OFF FROM HERE

 

[VCheng]

......... None of the hijackers of 9/11 we Pakistani yet we got thruster Into a war of terror .........

Aren't you forgetting the role of KSM in the 9/11 attacks, and where both KSM and OBL were caught?

 

[ApparentRaceTraitor]

Just a case of one bad apple. As long as the public believes that one is innocent until proven guilty, that the law decides and delivers, then people would think twice or thrice before unnecessarily committing condemnable acts. But then again I don't know what the law is like in Pakistan and am going by what my housemates tell me.

 

[Thor]

Aren't you forgetting the role of KSM in the 9/11 attacks, and where both KSM and OBL were caught?

Sorry you meet KSM whose evidence was obtained through torture. I tell you what Vcheng, you please come here t. Pakistan, and I will guarantee, absolutely guarantee, by the time our m,Italy or police are through with you, you will admit to the crimes of the whole of humanity since the start of time.

What evidence do you have OBL was found in Palistan other then what the US tells us, sorry, no proof.........

And again, innocent until proven guilty, OBL denied his involvement and requireda fair trial, however the US has clear ulterior motives, hence Saddam, Gaddafi and many others.......

As
Before, let's not derail this thread and lets let's get back to the discussion at hand...

 

[Solomon2]

Let me tell you what i am getting, the US is the root cause of all the problems...

Pakistan has had severe problems for decades, long before 9/11. If Pakistanis truly believed in their hearts that the U.S. is "the root cause of all the problems" they would scarcely be calling for and accepting U.S. aid after every earthquake and avalanche, would they?

The Us has for far tooooooo long meddled into the affairs of a sovereign nation.

Pakistanis ask for help and we Americans give it. Perhaps it's turned into a bad nasty habit for both parties. But as long as Pakistan asks and we spend time and money to help you, no we aren't just going to throw money at you and then leave because you yell "F@&£ OFF", if only because it's a gross sin to encourage such bad manners.

Still, Thor, there may be more hope in you then in most of the other Pakistani forum members here, the majority of whom, I guess, read this thread and hang their heads in shame. You want to justify your feelings of pride, Thor? Then do something really worthy: make an effort. You say this guy is a murderer so spend a little bit of yourself to see he comes to justice; at least make sure he's not taking refuge in your community or nearby. Otherwise you merely condone his actions and encourage more of the same from others.

 

[Thor]

Pakistan has had severe problems for decades, long before 9/11. If Pakistanis truly believed in their hearts that the U.S. is "the root cause of all the problems" they would scarcely be calling for and accepting U.S. aid after every earthquake and avalanche, would they?

Pakistanis ask for help and we Americans give it. Perhaps it's turned into a bad nasty habit for both parties. But as long as Pakistan asks and we spend time and money to help you, no we aren't just going to throw money at you and then leave because you yell "F@&£ OFF", if only because it's a gross sin to encourage such bad manners.

Still, Thor, there may be more hope in you then in most of the other Pakistani forum members here, the majority of whom, I guess, read this thread and hang their heads in shame. You want to justify your feelings of pride, Thor? Then do something really worthy: make an effort. You say this guy is a murderer so spend a little bit of yourself to see he comes to justice; at least make sure he's not taking refuge in your community or nearby. Otherwise you merely condone his actions and encourage more of the same from others.

Once again Solomon, please stop encouraging and promoting vigilantism in another country, my point exactly just answered, you people cannot stop interfering. The suspect, when arrested by our law enforcement will face trial, PERIOD.

I totally stand by our legal system and believe justice is served, delayed maybe, yes, but served..... As I have shown above, the West is not the only country that asks people not to approach a dangerous criminal, or pursue him.

 

[Solomon2]

The suspect, when arrested by our law enforcement will face trial, PERIOD. I totally stand by our legal system and believe justice is served...

Do I really have to be the one to disillusion Thor or will one of his fellow Pakistanis do the job? I'll be back tomorrow to see.

 

[Developereo]

There is no contradiction; citizens hunting for a fugitive are not judge, jury, and executioner. Citizens can help in the hunt for the accused, hand him over to the justice system, and help give the authorities the confidence that by prosecuting him to the fullest they will receive their support.

Have you thought that Thor's argument (that it is better to let a murderer run around loose and leave the responsibility for catching him to somebody else) is a much worse image of Pakistan than that of "a nation of vigilantes"? The latter seeks justice, whereas the former, witnessing evil, simply doesn't want to get its hair mussed.

You're looking at it from a simplistic, Westernized point of view. As I mentioned earlier, this business of blasphemy law is just a tiny symptom of a systemic problem in law enforcement. As Thor mentioned, most countries have laws regarding 'racial/religious vilification'; they're just not called blasphemy laws. Most people in Pakistan don't pay any attention to the blasphemy law (which needs to be tightened and brought in line with the global mainstream) and, more often than not, it is used to settle personal scores quite unrelated to religion.

The way law enforcement fails in Pakistan, and many poor countries, is that the ordinary policeman (or citizen) knows it's not worth their while to arrest someone anyway. The power structure above them is so corrupt that, not only will the criminal go free, but the arresting individual may get in trouble also.

Arresting one or two people will not fix the underlying problem. The solution is to fix the rot within the system, which is where I would prefer people to focus their efforts, rather than making citizens arrests. Unfortunately, given the deeply entrenched power structure in Pakistan, there are no easy answers. Certainly things improved under Musharraf, and one hopes Imran Khan can deliver if elected, but it's going to be a tough challenge.

 

[humanfirst]

Salman Taseer should have been put before the court as his words were derogatory and insulting as per the legislation of Pakistan however due to the emperor style status in Pakistan nowadays, many of its laws are not fully implemented. Had Taseer been taking to court and even if he was acquitted it would have shown a due process, but none of the kind took place,

What actually were salman taseers dorogatory and insulting words that must have warranted prosecution,and for the lack of which millions' hero qadri had to murder him?

 

[Thor]

You're looking at it from a simplistic, Westernized point of view. As I mentioned earlier, this business of blasphemy law is just a tiny symptom of a systemic problem in law enforcement. As Thor mentioned, most countries have laws regarding 'racial/religious vilification'; they're just not called blasphemy laws. Most people in Pakistan don't pay any attention to the blasphemy law (which needs to be tightened and brought in line with the global mainstream) and, more often than not, it is used to settle personal scores quite unrelated to religion.

The way law enforcement fails in Pakistan, and many poor countries, is that the ordinary policeman (or citizen) knows it's not worth their while to arrest someone anyway. The power structure above them is so corrupt that, not only will the criminal go free, but the arresting individual may get in trouble also.

Arresting one or two people will not fix the underlying problem. The solution is to fix the rot within the system, which is where I would prefer people to focus their efforts, rather than making citizens arrests. Unfortunately, given the deeply entrenched power structure in Pakistan, there are no easy answers. Certainly things improved under Musharraf, and one hopes Imran Khan can deliver if elected, but it's going to be a tough challenge.

The problem here is not of there understanding of rationale here, but a genuine belief of their superiority. These people actually think that despite the West advising it's citizens not to approach dangerous individuals, they think Pakistan does not and should not fit into this category. Yes we have some corrupt people, we have a stooge puppet government put in power with the help of the US, despite the fact that the US would never accept such people or NRO law in their country yet they think it is suitable to have it in Pakistan.

As above, it is a case of arrogance and as a Pakistani I strongly believe that we should not listen to ignorant tw@ts like people.

The issue first went on to discuss the blasphemy laws itself, however when Solomon, being Jew, was shown the extreme laws of Judaism and the Indians shown their legislation wording compared to that of Pakistan which quickly went into the murder itself which everyone here has condemned but now it's gone onto "how are you going to help apprehend him", oh please, people here sound pathetic with their bashing here