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Blacks Climing Indus Valley Civilization

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Map is based on limited samples, it is also very outdated. The reason you drift closer to Arabs is because low castes were more open to mixing with foreigners. Your ancestors spread their legs for them

Search any map you will find the same result. Genetically Pakistanis are more closer to central Asia than middle east. Arabs did not settle in this area and most invasions came from central Asia. Remove those biased glasses for a while. There is Turkish, central Asian, Greek and Bactrian genes mixed with indigenous Indus population rather than Persian and Arabic.
 
- Ganga valley civilization never existed. Because Ganga is not a valley. It is a plains.

Valley is in the context of basin of Ganges but you are right. Initial stages of Hindu history does not meet all attributes of civilization and does not qualify to be called a civilization till about Mauryan time.

Not true. The Chinese civilization of Xia was also comparable.

Chinese civilization (yellow river civilization) appeared later but was contemporary to IVC from 2000 B.C. onwards. First civilization was Sumerian Iraq (3500 B.C.) second Egypt (3000-2500 B.C.) Third Indus (2500 B.C.). Indus Valley Civilization was in contact with Sumerian and Egyptian civilizations as it traded with them through ships. IVC people are mentioned in Sumerian records and are called 'Meluhas' (some historians think it as 'Mallahs' or ship sailors). Sumerian records tell them of people who bring exotic goods to Sumerian (Iraq). Indus valley people traded with Middle East and their trading posts have been discovered in Oman, Bahrain and Indus artifacts and seals have been found in Iraq.

On topic India is the worlds largest and most importantly oldest civilization.

Sumerian civilization is the oldest and is called cradle of human civilization. It thrived between Euphrates and Tigris rivers. Second oldest is Egyptian and then is Indus valley basin (not India by any stretch of imagination).
 
Map is based on limited samples, it is also very outdated. The reason you drift closer to Arabs is because low castes were more open to mixing with foreigners.

Genetic mapping of world population is available on Internet. Feel free to share your evidence. My map is neither outdated nor based on limited samples. Truth is out there for everyone to see. Looking however at the diversity of Indian populace, it is abundantly clearly that many races are mixed therein. Do you ever wonder why Pakistanis genetically bunch together and Indians do not?!
 
We are mainly Dalit converts with Arab blood
You are definitely Indian dalits and I am happy that you are embracing this truth again and again in every thread. Its 21 century so please accept your identity and stop using Pakistani flags. We will not consider you untouchable if you do this :)

@waz @Irfan Baloch @Horus @WebMaster @mods

Can you please check location of @Clawz
Apparently a false flagging troll.
location dont matter because he might be living in UK but he is definitely self proclaimed dalit :D
 
attach themselves

What you and me need to do is find out how they can "attach" to Indus when almost all of them are hundreds if not thousand miles. this like Pakistani's try to "attach" to Mesopotamia in Iraq. If you can find this thing they use to "attach" then we can make superglue out of it trust me it will have best bonding abilities than any other glue.

You know seriously I must admit I have to scratch my head at this delusion. Here is Bengali's, Maratas, Tamils, Orrisans and the rest who have no idea of what the Indus region looks like, have never now or in the past ever gone near it somehow have dreamed up they have some connection with our land. Before Urdu/Hindi was standarized in recent times and spread non of these people could have talked with our people. They look differant, they eat differant, they dress differant but somehow they want to make us disappear and claim our history.

This is absurd. They have no sense of shame. They are efectively seeing that they are spawns of our ancestors. I mean you realize this means they are disowning their own forefathers. Despite this like dogs that won't let go of a bone, you can kick, you do what you want but they will come back for the bone - the Indus.

The bizzare thing is they entirely overlook their own lands and their own ancestors. Look they worship the Ganga. So how come these Indians who are from the Ganga basin do not build a identity and history based on the Ganga Basin? There are probably over 500 million Indian's living on the Ganga Basin so why not take pride in their land. Be proud Ganga Indians.

Then there is the Dravid Indian's. These guys are even more remote from us. They live entirely in a differant environment which mostly is tropical unlike the semi desert or mountains of Pakistan. These Dravid Indians in South India should be taking ownership of their land and the history of their forefathers. Instead they look far way north to our lands on the Indus and sniff on it and get high. crazy.

And Ganguly I coould ask you what would happen if India imploded. Don't compare with that lump of land separated 1,300 miles from us called Bangladesh. It was not a contigous part of the Indus basin. The provinces that make Pakistan are the custodians of Indus basin as whole. Have a look at the map. In fact why not find out where Indus River is and you will find it is to Pakistan what Nile is to Egypt.

Yes there might be overspill of Indus civilizations to neighbouring regions in Iran, Afghanistan and India near Durand line but no civilization is found in nice little boxes. That way Ancient Egypt had overspill into Nubia in Sudan with some sites even in Ethopia. However the fulcrum was in Egypt. Ditto Indus/Pakistan. Just to refresh your geography have a look at the "I" of IVC or Indus River. You can see how it defines and dominates Pakistan. Not only that it unites all provinces.

Indus.jpg


And just in case you have illusions look at the Ganges basin and Indus basin. Both are distinct never mind South India. Ganga basin all shit flows east to Gulf of Bengal. Whereas Indus basin flows in differant direction. Sort of south, south west to Arabian Sea.

120929himalayan.jpg


And here is what is Ganga Basin is. It covers most of North India and home probably to majority of Indians. Eastern Haryana, Uttar Pradesh, North East Rajasthan, Madya Pradesh, Jharkand, Bihar, Bengal, Chattisgarh peoples are all proud Ganga dwellers and should learn to take pride in their own land instead looking far west to feel good about themselves. They need to own their own ancestors on the Ganga.

Below: The Ganga India - New Delhi is in the basin.

Ganges-Brahmaputra-Meghna_basins.jpg
 
What you and me need to do is find out how they can "attach" to Indus when almost all of them are hundreds if not thousand miles. this like Pakistani's try to "attach" to Mesopotamia in Iraq. If you can find this thing they use to "attach" then we can make superglue out of it trust me it will have best bonding abilities than any other glue.

You know seriously I must admit I have to scratch my head at this delusion. Here is Bengali's, Maratas, Tamils, Orrisans and the rest who have no idea of what the Indus region looks like, have never now or in the past ever gone near it somehow have dreamed up they have some connection with our land. Before Urdu/Hindi was standarized in recent times and spread non of these people could have talked with our people. They look differant, they eat differant, they dress differant but somehow they want to make us disappear and claim our history.

This is absurd. They have no sense of shame. They are efectively seeing that they are spawns of our ancestors. I mean you realize this means they are disowning their own forefathers. Despite this like dogs that won't let go of a bone, you can kick, you do what you want but they will come back for the bone - the Indus.

The bizzare thing is they entirely overlook their own lands and their own ancestors. Look they worship the Ganga. So how come these Indians who are from the Ganga basin do not build a identity and history based on the Ganga Basin? There are probably over 500 million Indian's living on the Ganga Basin so why not take pride in their land. Be proud Ganga Indians.

Then there is the Dravid Indian's. These guys are even more remote from us. They live entirely in a differant environment which mostly is tropical unlike the semi desert or mountains of Pakistan. These Dravid Indians in South India should be taking ownership of their land and the history of their forefathers. Instead they look far way north to our lands on the Indus and sniff on it and get high. crazy.

And Ganguly I coould ask you what would happen if India imploded. Don't compare with that lump of land separated 1,300 miles from us called Bangladesh. It was not a contigous part of the Indus basin. The provinces that make Pakistan are the custodians of Indus basin as whole. Have a look at the map. In fact why not find out where Indus River is and you will find it is to Pakistan what Nile is to Egypt.

Yes there might be overspill of Indus civilizations to neighbouring regions in Iran, Afghanistan and India near Durand line but no civilization is found in nice little boxes. That way Ancient Egypt had overspill into Nubia in Sudan with some sites even in Ethopia. However the fulcrum was in Egypt. Ditto Indus/Pakistan. Just to refresh your geography have a look at the "I" of IVC or Indus River. You can see how it defines and dominates Pakistan. Not only that it unites all provinces.

Indus.jpg


And just in case you have illusions look at the Ganges basin and Indus basin. Both are distinct never mind South India. Ganga basin all shit flows east to Gulf of Bengal. Whereas Indus basin flows in differant direction. Sort of south, south west to Arabian Sea.

120929himalayan.jpg


And here is what is Ganga Basin is. It covers most of North India and home probably to majority of Indians. Eastern Haryana, Uttar Pradesh, North East Rajasthan, Madya Pradesh, Jharkand, Bihar, Bengal, Chattisgarh peoples are all proud Ganga dwellers and should learn to take pride in their own land instead looking far west to feel good about themselves. They need to own their own ancestors on the Ganga.

Below: The Ganga India - New Delhi is in the basin.

Ganges-Brahmaputra-Meghna_basins.jpg

You are in UK. You still identify yourself as a Pakistani, right ? It's same thing.

Indians are the heirs of Indus Valley civilization. Pakistanis are those who wanted to be Arabs, but Arabs did not want them. So they got stuck in the no man's land.
 
It's same thing.

No. I actually come from there. I was born there. My grandparents live there. I own land there - my share of my fathers estate. I am therefore British - Pakistani. Now if any Indian citizen ( I know there are some like your former PM Singh ) tell me he is from Khyber Pakhtunkwa or Punjab etc trust me I would open my arms and treat them as my brothers despite what religion they are and would not even dare challange their right to the history of this land. Those Indian migrants who left in 1947 and are now Indian citizens are equivalent to me or any other person from the provinces of Pakistan. I think it was a tragedy that we lost them in 1947. If it came to a vote I would say yes to them coming back.

However a Bengali, a Marata, a Tamil, a Orrisan, a Telagu, a Assamese have absolutely no right as they have no connect to this land now or in the past unless of course they happen to be migrants from here which might be applicable to atiny number. I recently met a chap from Hyderabad in India and he told me his father was from Lahore and in 1947 he never went back because he had a good job. However you know these are exceptions. 100 of millions or the vast number of Indians are intrinsic to Ganges India or South India and have had no knowledge of or connection to Indus other than recent historical revisionism.
 
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No. I actually come from their. I was born there. My grandparents live there. I own land there - my share of my fathers estate. I am therefore British - Pakistani. Now if any Indian citizen ( I know there are ) tell me he is from Khyber Pakhtunkwa or Punjab etc trust me I would open my arms and treat them as my brothers despite what religion they are and would not even dare challange their right to the history of this land. Those Indian migrants who left in 1947 and are now Indian citizens are equivalent to me.

However a Bengali, a Marata, a Tamil, a Orrisan, a Telagu, a Assamese have absolutely no right as they have no connect to this land now or in the past unless of course they happen to be migrants from here which might be applicable to atiny number. I recently met a chap from Hyderabad in India and he told me his father was from Lahore and in 1947 he never went back because he had a good job. However you know these are exceptions. 100 of millions or the vat number are intrinsic to Ganges India or South India and have had no knowledge of or connection to Indus other than recent historical revisionism.

That was an example, which one can relate to within a life time. If not you, then probably someone else ? I'm sure a first generation migrant Pakistani in UK will identify himself as a Pakistani to be his origin.

In case of IVC, the same is true, only span over thousands of years. The civilization it gave rise to has span over places, across India.
Pakistan is the custodian of the artefacts of parts of that civilization. It is so, because, it shunned that identity ( and I'm not merely indicating at religion here) and went for creating a new identity which was based on a civilization that grew and prospered elsewhere, in the middle east.

So, either you are this one, or that one. You cannot be both at same point of time.
 
wanted to be Arabs,

This applies to maybe 1% of Pakistan. I hear this so often from Indian's. Is this some self prescribed medicine to knock out 94% of native Pakistani's from their own ancestors thus making it easier for you guy to make move. You are badly misinformed my friend if you believe that. Muslim yes but Arab no. There is very strong identification in Pakistan with their tribe, clan, bradheri which always are significant formulation of their identity. In fact these precede the "Pakistan" tag. A Sadozai,a Khattak, a Jat, a Gakkar, a Arrain, a Baloch will take extreme pride in that ancestry. Islam also plays a role but it just one thread in a complex.

And if any of them even do dream of Arab ( possibly Syeds who actually are invariably converts as the Arab impact on Pakistan was nominal as it was restricted to just Sindh ) that certainly does not create a vacancy for some Bengali, Tamil or Telagu to jump in.

That is like a Viking going awol on his ancestry and you decide fill his vancancy !!!
 
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This applies to maybe 1% of Pakistan. I hear this so often from Indian's. Is this some self prescribed medicine to knock out 94% of native Pakistani's from their own ancestors thus making it easier for you guy to make move. You are badly misinformed my friend if you believe that. Muslim yes but Arab no. There is very strong identification in Pakistan with their tribe, clan, bradheri which always are significant formulation of their identity. In fact these precede the "Pakistan" tag. A Sadozai,a Khattak, a Jat, a Gakkar, a Arrain, a Baloch will take extreme pride in that ancestry. Islam also plays a role but it just one thread in a complex.

And if any of them even do dream of Arab ( possibly Syeds who actually are invariably converts as the Arab impact on Pakistan was nominal as it was restricted to just Sindh ) that certainly does not create a vacancy for some Bengali, Tamil or Telagu to jump in.

That is like a Viking going awol on his ancestry and you decide fill his vancancy !!!

If you want to own up to IVC more power to you. Until now we were of the impression that you disowned your ancestors and followed Arabs. Now why is it very little is know about IVC and their inhabitants?? Can you quantify your connection you have with IVC? Why was this world lost and forgotten until its discovery in 1940's by British and Indian archeologists??
Why it was not mentioned in any of your folklore or scriptures?? There are more questions than answers for why it was lost to the outside world.
 
@Atanz This is interesting. But, I have to leave now. I will share my thoughts as soon as possible.
 
A river is a geographical feature. Rigveda can talk about it because it will be known to them. It doesn't make Indus central to Hindu mythology. And Rigveda talks about Indus river but it doesn't talk about the magnificent cities built around it? By any stretch of imagination, Harrappa and Mohen-jo-Daro would be a site to behold for any human of that time yet Rigveda has no mention of them or their civilization? Could it be that people writing it had no idea about Indus Civilization?



@Atanz

Which can also mean , Rig veda precedes IVC . It can also mean Rig Veda was written on the east of Indus , near saraswati .
It talks about Saraswati river , and its clear through geology and scientific research that , the river got extinct by 1900 BCE .

Rig Veda and Avestan of Iranians have similarities . Its already clear that Iranians were ruling Indus areas for a long time .

Battle of the Ten Kings - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Rig Veda talks about battle of 10 kings . If there are kings with big armies then there must be big enough empires to support them . Only 2 possible areas can have these empires : Persia ( Including all parts of IVC ) and Egypt .
And only logical answer could be the 1st one .

IVC existed in bronze age. You underestimate bronze age. Just to give you an idea, Egyptian pyramids were constructed in bronze age with bronze tools. If they could cut stones with bronze tools, they could cut trees as well. However Indus basin was not as thickly forested as India because it received less monsoon thus making of civilization possible. Due to thick forests present day India was mostly inhabited with jungle hunters, cattle herders, foragers and jungle food gatherers at that time. Some in early bronze age and some still in stoneware.

But its widely accepted that advent of Iron age resulted in clearance of Forests .
Many Egyptians concepts and Gods have similarities with Hindu Gods , lets not go there :lol:

There are lots of conspiracy theories floating around Egypt , SO no need to go there too:lol:

At best we can say Egyptians were well ahead of Time . If not then there must be ALIENS:D

Modern India and Pakistan are a mixture a races , Cultures , Languages and Religions .
We are so mixed up that , It will be foolish of both of us to have claim on IVC .

None of us hold pure genes of IVC people :tup:
 
You are in UK. You still identify yourself as a Pakistani, right ? It's same thing.

Indians are the heirs of Indus Valley civilization. Pakistanis are those who wanted to be Arabs, but Arabs did not want them. So they got stuck in the no man's land.

Who are you dear?who the hell are you to claim that we don't own IVC?We may claim to be from peru or chile but it doesn't change the fact that where Pakistanis are from.

This stupid double standard of india doesn't work anymore as many agencies around the world are now claiming IVC part of Pakistan and Ganges part of India.

Persian history belong to persian despite the fact that they are muslim today
Egyptian history belong to Egyptian despite the fact that they are muslim today
IVC history exclusively belong to pakistanis despite the fact that Pakistanis are Muslim today.

I agree you can claim the IVC only if your ancestors migrated from the land of Pakistan during partition or even earlier though if your family has married for at least 2 generation within India,than again your not related to the Ancient IVC People or we Pakistanis.But again if you want to become part of the IVC/Pakistan family please contact me,thanks

NOTE: This is really stupid,I am from Pakistan but even i can't claim to be part of IVC as i am not from the region linked to IVC.But an indian who doesn't even live in Pakistan or Indian occupied Punjab but still claim IVC just because he's a hindu.

Dear,it it was just upto religion,we would had claim over all the ancient ME civilizations.
 
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