Binayak Sen's wife may seek political asylum

[KS]

What's seditious about those letters? It's a pathetic judgment. In one side we are handling out life time to people like Binayak Sen and in another A Raja and Kalmadi roaming free.

Did I anywhere support Raja and Kalmadi roaming free ?? I dont remember. I couldnt care less if they are tomorrow hanged from the nearest lamp post. They are not some great 'leaders' for me to fret over them.

And why stretch this argument . You belong to the left side of the divide and I to the right. Perhaps that material was not seditious enough for you. But I rest my belief on the judges on this matter.

or if you have different opinion than the mainstream indian?

Again yes if that 'opinion' is supporting declared terrorists.

 

[Ammyy]

or if you have different opinion than the mainstream indian?

Like supporting Naxalism in India ????

 

[LaBong]

Did I anywhere support Raja and Kalmadi roaming free ?? I dont remember. I couldnt care less if they are tomorrow hanged from the nearest lamp post. They are not some great 'leaders' for me to fret over them.

And why stretch this argument . You belong to the left side of the divide and I to the right. Perhaps that material was not seditious enough for you. But I rest my belief on the judges on this matter.



Again yes if that 'opinion' is supporting declared terrorists.

I'm not leftist. You don't have to be a leftist to know what is wrong and right(if I'm not mistaken Ram Jethmalani of BJP taking Mr Sen's case to supreme court). Think about it, is just calling someone 'Priya Comrade' enough to be jailed for life time?

And since when opinion started becoming dangerous to integrity of India? Seems we are going down the China's way.

 

[KS]

I'm not leftist. You don't have to be a leftist to know what is wrong and right(if I'm not mistaken Ram Jethmalani of BJP taking Mr Sen's case to supreme court). Think about it, is just calling someone 'Priya Comrade' enough to be jailed for life time?

And since when opinion started becoming dangerous to integrity of India? Seems we are going down the China's way.

I am not aware of the exact contents of the letter.So I am not judging by myself , rather I am resting my belief on the learned judges of the court as I said on my previous post. If you have a scanned copy of the letter perhaps then I could give my personal opinion.

As for the bolded part, just for curiosity sake, Do you accept Ram Jethmalani's views on Ayodhya verdict ?

 

[LaBong]

As for the bolded part, just for curiosity sake, Do you accept Ram Jethmalani's views on Ayodhya verdict ?

I'm unaware of Jethmalani's views on Ayodhya verdict.

Anyway I needn't accept his view on everything, I was trying to point it out that there's no left-right division in Binayak Sen's case.

BTW, as you accept all the verdicts of court without any question, do you also agree with the court regarding Muslim personnel laws?

 

[KS]

I'm unaware of Jethmalani's views on Ayodhya verdict.

Anyway I needn't accept his view on everything, I was trying to point it out that there's no left-right division in Binayak Sen's case.

Perhaps it could just be the lawyer inside Jethmalani taking the case and not the politician.

BTW, as you accept all the verdicts of court without any question, do you also agree with the court regarding Muslim personnel laws?

Which court's ruling ?? BTW if it contradicts with the fundamental premise of our constitution that "everyone is equal irrespective of his religion.....", then I need to think again.

BTW I found this :

Article 44 (of the Indian Constitution) which states "The State shall endeavor to secure for citizens a uniform civil code throughout the territory of India."

In 1995, the Supreme Court of India was asked to review four cases where Hindu men had converted to Islam in order to marry a second wife. The case is Sarala Mudgal v. Union of India, AIR 1995 SC 153, In each case, the first marriage had been solemnized under the Hindu Marriage Act of 1954.
In his(Justice Kuldip Singh) rather lengthy ruling, he touched on the importance of a Uniform Civil Code for India 20 times. Singh was clear in his call for a Uniform Civil Code when he remarked that "The successive Governments till date have been wholly remiss in their duty of implementing the constitutional mandate under Article 44."

In 2003, the Supreme Court in John Vallamattam V. Union of India, AIR 2003 SC 2902, under Chief Justice V.N. Khare made a similar call in his remark "We would like to state that Article 44 provides that the State shall endeavor to secure for all citizens a uniform civil code throughout the territory of India. It is a matter of great regrets that Article 44 of the Constitution has not been given effect to

 

[LaBong]

Perhaps it could just be the lawyer inside Jethmalani taking the case and not the politician.

According to Jethmalani, he is taking the case for him(Binayak) as he think he is wrongly convicted. BJP finds no issue with it.

Which court's ruling ?? BTW if it contradicts with the fundamental premise of our constitution that "everyone is equal irrespective of his religion.....", then I need to think again.

BTW I found this :

But the constitution also guaranties them to have their personal law. According to the Constitution, having personal laws don't make them unequal than other people.

It needn't necessarily be correct but if we need to accept everything that constitution say without any question, then you can't object to those amendments as well. The point being, there is always a realm of questioning and disagreeing.

Let's analyse Dr. Sen's case.

First we need to consider two things – 1. Is there a case against Binayak Sen? 2. Should he get a life sentence.?

From the documents available in Internet, it seems there is little or no credible evidence against Sen.

The prosecutor’s attempt at linking him with ISI is laughable and unfortunate at best. My best friend(a childhood friend also) was born a Muslim, I hope not tomorrow be accused of being linked to ISI.

There’s no denying that Mr Sen is strong maoist sympathizer, however there’s no evidence of him involving in illegal activities. He and his wife were instrumental in getting jobs for people accused of naxalites, he also had been working in legal defense of Naxal accused, nothing of which breaks laws of the country.

Now the letters, let’s see what the letters say.

Concern about seriousness on the part of the lawyers representing his cases in Raipur and Giridih and lack of any progress.
Complaint regarding lack of concern for people in jail and demand for funds to arrange legal support for them.
Seeking information about expansion of work among the peasantry at large, among workers and in urban areas.
Advising on the need to expand work among workers and in urban areas and in the middle sections and impossibility of sustaining the organisation without it.
Praising the completion of the Ninth Congress and asking about reactions to the debates and decisions.
Pointing to the powerful impact of the media despite its anti-people character.
Putting forth views on imperialism, generation of inequality, economic crisis, and lack of people’s reaction globally.
Informing of his increasing age and the onset of arthritis

Source: http://www.pudr.org/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=164

Very seditious and scary indeed!

Now let’s come back to the second question, whether or not he should get a life term.

According to the Chattisgarh Special Public Security Act (CSPSA), any kind of facilitation for members of unlawful organizations is a crime and by that token the case against Dr. Sen is strong. But the terms of imprisonment according to the law, are in the range of two to three years and definitely not life.

Taking a step back, the larger issue is “Is it a democratic right to believe in “banned” philosophies and to facilitate the nominally non-violent activities (like passing their propaganda around or helping in their legal defense) of those who plan and engage in violence against the State”? Or in other words, is CSPSA by definition anti-democratic?

Putting it another way, at what stage does facilitation end and freedom of dissent begin?

Dr. Sen’s case is a case which sits right in this twilight zone. It’s a special case because unlike page 3 activists like Roy and Azmi, Dr. Sen has been working tirelessly all his life for the uplift of dispossessed, he not only talked the talk but walked the walk too.

Some points to ponder.

 

[ajtr]

@karthick ,
u r seditious to the moral secular fabric of the inidia due to ur saffron terrorism views.

 

[tallboy123]

Please get out mr sen..
We would be in peace without u

 

[ajtr]

Please get out mr sen..
We would be in peace without u

Why she must get out.Each and every oppressed indian will fight against the tyranny and oppression of the indian govt for the people like Binayak sen and his family to save their honor.

 

[LaBong]

Why she must get out.Each and every oppressed indian will fight against the tyranny and oppression of the indian govt for the people like Binayak sen and his family to save their honor.

Please don't dilute the issue in hand by your silly rhetoric.

 

[jayron]

@ Karthik
The maoists exist for a reason - social injustice and the government apathy to it. Are you sure Binayak is the guilty and not the establishment? I have personal stories of political and bureaucratic aggression against the helpless common people. There is so much ugliness in the establishment that I am no longer sure which is the good side and which is not.

 

[Masterchief]

Handing him a life term was too much, seriously the court convicted him without much evidence.

 

[KS]

According to Jethmalani, he is taking the case for him(Binayak) as he think he is wrongly convicted. BJP finds no issue with it.

Thats why I said it is the lawyer inside him and not the politician

But the constitution also guaranties them to have their personal law. According to the Constitution, having personal laws don't make them unequal than other people.

It needn't necessarily be correct but if we need to accept everything that constitution say without any question, then you can't object to those amendments as well. The point being, there is always a realm of questioning and disagreeing.

No Abir, the constitution says in no uncertain terms that a Uniform Civil Code must be there and that was the dream of the architects of our constitution too. The statements of the SC Justices also emphasize that.The personal laws were only introduced as a temporary solution until the final law on Uniform Civil Code is drafted. But the sad thing this such a good law has been hijacked by religious nutjobs and has been given a communal colour to it. Anyway lets leave it at that.

Let's analyse Dr. Sen's case.

First we need to consider two things – 1. Is there a case against Binayak Sen? 2. Should he get a life sentence.?

From the documents available in Internet, it seems there is little or no credible evidence against Sen.

The prosecutor’s attempt at linking him with ISI is laughable and unfortunate at best. My best friend(a childhood friend also) was born a Muslim, I hope not tomorrow be accused of being linked to ISI.

There’s no denying that Mr Sen is strong maoist sympathizer, however there’s no evidence of him involving in illegal activities. He and his wife were instrumental in getting jobs for people accused of naxalites, he also had been working in legal defense of Naxal accused, nothing of which breaks laws of the country.

Now the letters, let’s see what the letters say.

Concern about seriousness on the part of the lawyers representing his cases in Raipur and Giridih and lack of any progress.
Complaint regarding lack of concern for people in jail and demand for funds to arrange legal support for them.
Seeking information about expansion of work among the peasantry at large, among workers and in urban areas.
Advising on the need to expand work among workers and in urban areas and in the middle sections and impossibility of sustaining the organisation without it.
Praising the completion of the Ninth Congress and asking about reactions to the debates and decisions.
Pointing to the powerful impact of the media despite its anti-people character.
Putting forth views on imperialism, generation of inequality, economic crisis, and lack of people’s reaction globally.
Informing of his increasing age and the onset of arthritis

Source: http://www.pudr.org/index.php?option=com_docman&task=doc_view&gid=164

Very seditious and scary indeed!

Now let’s come back to the second question, whether or not he should get a life term.

According to the Chattisgarh Special Public Security Act (CSPSA), any kind of facilitation for members of unlawful organizations is a crime and by that token the case against Dr. Sen is strong. But the terms of imprisonment according to the law, are in the range of two to three years and definitely not life.

Taking a step back, the larger issue is “Is it a democratic right to believe in “banned” philosophies and to facilitate the nominally non-violent activities (like passing their propaganda around or helping in their legal defense) of those who plan and engage in violence against the State”? Or in other words, is CSPSA by definition anti-democratic?

Putting it another way, at what stage does facilitation end and freedom of dissent begin?

Dr. Sen’s case is a case which sits right in this twilight zone. It’s a special case because unlike page 3 activists like Roy and Azmi, Dr. Sen has been working tirelessly all his life for the uplift of dispossessed, he not only talked the talk but walked the walk too.

Some points to ponder.

See we are not a perfect democracy and we are still a young nation still maturing and still facing various problems at various levels right from full blown insurgencies to basic issues like poverty, lilteracy etc.

Now is not the time to exactly discuss the fine line between in your words,"facilitation end and freedom of dissent". Certain examples need to me made that support (sympathising) to banned terrorist organisations will not be tolerated in any form.

This part caught my eye -

Seeking information about expansion of work among the peasantry at large, among workers and in urban areas and in the middle sections and impossibility of sustaining the organisation without it.

Given the vocabulary these 'comrades' use amongst themselves, One is inclined to think only of the expansion of the Maoist cadre into the urban areas from the tribal strongholds which the Maoists are attempting without success for a very long time.

Again classic Maoist propaganda -

Putting forth views on imperialism, generation of inequality, economic crisis, and lack of people’s reaction globally.

Taking a step back, the larger issue is “Is it a democratic right to believe in “banned” philosophies and to facilitate the nominally non-violent activities (like passing their propaganda around or helping in their legal defense) of those who plan and engage in violence against the State”? Or in other words, is CSPSA by definition anti-democratic?

No it is not a 'Democratic' right to believe in Banned philosophies. There can be no two thoughts about it. Democracy is not something that allows you to do anything an gives you the freedom to do so.If that is the case why persecuting those who succumb to religious terrorism?? Is it not their democratic right to believe in that ??

The issue is "your hand ends where my nose begins" and the Maoists have long crossed that threshold. The maoists must be destroyed and one of the main roots that support the Maoist tree is their 'intellectual' supporters like Sen, Roy etc who dish out propaganda so much so that they end up romanticising the terrorists as some kinda 'Gandhians with guns'.

And what you say is a perfect recipe for 'Anarchy'. There are no banned concepts and it is a free for all.That is not Democracy.

Yes the law may impinge on certain human rights, but to gain one we must lose one and in this Maoism is the bigger menace that needs to be eliminated.

p.s.: I asked the scanned copy of the original letter if available and not the synopsis of that letter from a Maoist-sympathising site.

 

[KS]

@ Karthik
The maoists exist for a reason - social injustice and the government apathy to it.

Oh cmon ! I have seen this hapless justification peddled out to justify theor atrocities and this seriousy pisses me off.

Injustice happens in every corner of India, does that justify taking arms and killing civilians. It will be only anarchy in the state then.

What justification do the Maoists have for killing 170 people travelling in the Gyaneshwari Express ?? Injustice, Exploitation ??

The original movement at NaxalBari started with these objectives. But today all that remains of that is a power hungry monster that thrives on illegal mining ,extortion and killing.

I hope you had heard the recent news annual budget of the Maoists being to the tune of about 3000 crores though illegal mining (from the same forests and lands that they are fighting to protect). How about spending that money on the tribals, building hospitals,schools etc instead of spending on IEDs,AKs and RPGs.

They blow up all the towers,pothole the roads, destroy the schools and then cry no development is happening. Retards.

If they indeed have the huge support among the tribals that they say they have, how about standing in the elections and developing the constituency through the funds that are allocated to them.

They will not do all this,they will continue their killing,extortion etc, but they want sympathy. Sorry I am not one.

Are you sure Binayak is the guilty and not
the establishment? I have personal stories of political and bureaucratic aggression against the helpless common people. There is so much ugliness in the establishment that I am no longer sure which is the good side and which is not.

Binayak Sen is a known Maoist sympathiser and *** such I care the least what happens to him.Coming to the bolded part, it exists every where else.Does that justify taking guns and equally killing people. Have the Maoists murdered plenty of civilians by branding them as 'police informers' ?? What about justice to that people ??

See the GoI has not done anything to the people in the jungles of Central India and that is one thing we all agree upon. Now the Govt ha woken up and intends to do something. But this thing will not suceed till the last Maoist terrorist remains.They need to eliminated and then the GoI needs to bring in development there.