Bikini or headscarf -- which offers more freedom?

[T-Faz]

Two Muslim women thrown out of pool for wearing 'burkinis'

The women had plunged into the pool at le Port Leucate wearing full body swimsuits, including a head-covering hijab veil, but were immediately told to get out of the water.

The incident occurred less than two weeks after French MPs voted to ban body and face-covering garments, including the full Islamic veil, from public places including the street.

Under the new law, due to come into force early next year, women face a fine or community service for hiding their faces in public and those forcing women to wear the full veil risk prison.

President Nicolas Sarkozy has described the garment as "not welcome" in the staunchly secular French republic.

In this case, the women at the Rives des Corbieres holiday camp were told to leave as they had breached the camp's rules allowing only conventional bikinis or one-piece swimsuits "for hygiene reasons".

Police received conflicting accounts of what happened next.

The pool's lifeguard filed a complaint saying the husband of one of the women threatened him with a bowling ball.

The husband filed a complaint claiming security personnel beat him up.

Marie-Paule Bardeche, a regional government official said: "This is above all an issue stemming from the holiday centre's internal regulations, in place for hygiene and sanitary reasons.

"Access to the swimming pool is reserved for ordinary swimsuit wearers. Even long shorts are forbidden." Last year a Muslim woman was banned from wearing a "burkini" at a public pool in a Paris suburb, also for hygiene reasons.

She later tried and failed to sue the council for discrimination.

Police have this year also stopped and fined two women for wearing a burka while driving, saying it contravened road rules as it impaired their field of vision.

The holiday camp where the burkini incident took place is run by a staunchly secular organisation called the "Aude federation of secular works".

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There goes the Burkini.

 

[Reaper What You Sow]

Much ado about nothing. Shame on Sarkozy, product of immigrants upholding traditional French hostility instead of welcoming outsiders and acknowledging all the different colourful peoples formerly absorbed by the French empire. Short little buggers always make angry rulers.

 

[Spring Onion]

Sorry for going off topic but what kind of internet connection do you get in this cave of yours.

You have lights too.

NO lights No net. Infact its power of scanty attire that lights the bulbs and computer to function

 

[Spring Onion]

Two Muslim women thrown out of pool for wearing 'burkinis'

The women had plunged into the pool at le Port Leucate wearing full body swimsuits, including a head-covering hijab veil, but were immediately told to get out of the water.

The incident occurred less than two weeks after French MPs voted to ban body and face-covering garments, including the full Islamic veil, from public places including the street.

Under the new law, due to come into force early next year, women face a fine or community service for hiding their faces in public and those forcing women to wear the full veil risk prison.

President Nicolas Sarkozy has described the garment as "not welcome" in the staunchly secular French republic.

In this case, the women at the Rives des Corbieres holiday camp were told to leave as they had breached the camp's rules allowing only conventional bikinis or one-piece swimsuits "for hygiene reasons".

Police received conflicting accounts of what happened next.

The pool's lifeguard filed a complaint saying the husband of one of the women threatened him with a bowling ball.

The husband filed a complaint claiming security personnel beat him up.

Marie-Paule Bardeche, a regional government official said: "This is above all an issue stemming from the holiday centre's internal regulations, in place for hygiene and sanitary reasons.

"Access to the swimming pool is reserved for ordinary swimsuit wearers. Even long shorts are forbidden." Last year a Muslim woman was banned from wearing a "burkini" at a public pool in a Paris suburb, also for hygiene reasons.

She later tried and failed to sue the council for discrimination.

Police have this year also stopped and fined two women for wearing a burka while driving, saying it contravened road rules as it impaired their field of vision.

The holiday camp where the burkini incident took place is run by a staunchly secular organisation called the "Aude federation of secular works".

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There goes the Burkini.

So thats the criteria for being a liberal for bikini-minded people ?????/

 

[roach]

NO lights No net. Infact its power of scanty attire that lights the bulbs and computer to function

:


The last word, always the last word..........

 

[Jade]

The Bottom line is: It should be personal choice if anyone wants to wear bikini or stay nude or wear burqa or scarf.

You are right that women are human too and peer approval is liked by us all, opposite gender approval a little more. However the better ones from us all are always those that make healthy practical choices not emanating from peer pressure.

People start smoking due to peer pressure and to earn others approval at a young age.

Now I'm not saying that a woman must not try to look good, or 'show off her assets' if she wants to. I'm saying that if she doesn't want to, stop trying to strip her off her clothing. Respect her choice either.

There is no problem if someone wants to wears a burqa, however, the problem is when women are forced upon to wear them…and in most cases the latter is true

 

[vsdoc]

NO lights No net. Infact its power of scanty attire that lights the bulbs and computer to function

Is that a house-to-house thing or is there a national grid?

Cheers, Doc

 

[Avatar]

I did not read the article but I feel head scarf gives more freedom because you have more choices of things to take off, whereas with a bikini you just have two ..and that's a very tough call.

 

[Condor]

Is that a house-to-house thing or is there a national grid?

Cheers, Doc

Its an international grid - the bulk of it comes from the neighborhood to the East.

 

[vsdoc]

Its an international grid - the bulk of it comes from the neighborhood to the East.

Thats the problem with Pakistan man. You guys just have to learn to be self sufficient some day.

For how long are you going to continue holding someone else's ...... hand?

Otherwise every time Qureshi opens his mouth, Pakistan suffers blackouts.

Cheers, Doc

 

[SQ8]

Rape statistics are very very misleading. Rape is much more widely reported in the western world than in our countries, so it is difficult to judge a woman's safety in a particular country or city from a statistic.

Rape statistics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My point was- Would you be comfortable in a place where you are judged by the clothes you choose to wear? Tight jeans=Slut, Salwar Kameez= Good, marriageable girl?

Is this the kind of society that you hope to be a part of? If that is the case, then I just wasted five minutes of my life.

So by your logic we man should just all castrate ourselves and then no women whatever her character be feel endangered.
Nobody specified character here, your own weird assumption. What is being specified is how more modest clothing protects BOTH men and women from ending up in a situation.
Ive been to a topless beach in Miami a few years back and yes I felt embarrassed and aroused at the same time, yes men from the subcontinent are fairly frustrated due to our society, but there has to be a moderation in contact as well, otherwise if western society is the epitome of tolerance and comfort its funny as to how much more incidents of drug rapes, incest and pedophilia is rampant..does it not happen in our society, yes it does, but like a double edged sword our values and closed mindset protect innocents and violators alike, its not perfect, but compared to a place where *** precedes emotion..Ill take it anyday. Lets take this discussion a little more frank..(moderators may delete this asap). What in your opinion is the most pleasurable thing to a human being? Or to you?..take for eg a slice of pepperoni pizza, I love it.. I do wish I had it everyday.. but whenever Ive had it for more than two days consecutively, I get sick of it, I yearn for different things immediately.
Lets come to sex then.. what if you had it everyday, with different women.. you would enjoy it for a week, a month.. a year.. then you would want something different..with small girls.. with men.. with boys... There are people with natural tendencies for such acts.. but the basic flaw of humanity is common.
Now take our society.. the pre-partition Hindu-Muslim Society of India and Pakistan, women went about their work, both Hindu and Muslim women protected their modesty..by dupatta or purdah.
While pre-martial sex and extra-martial affairs did occur.. by the fear of society itself they were hidden and prevented...and the institution of marriage..of family was intact..the cornerstone of all successful societies was intact.
Come to today, India has absorbed a lot of western values.. i-pills and what not. Men and women go out, are friends..wonderful..I support it. But.. the instincts of both men and women are still alive. The natural urges...set loose. The result, pre-martial sex, sex with multiple partners, and extra-martial sex is all becoming common. And the very foundation of our..both India and Pakistan's common culture is threatened. Our identity, what made us who we are, is threatened. These values.. these constraints had their roots in religion but were applicable so we could be separated and distinguished from animals..which copulate without control.
A dog wont love the same *****, he does not know who his father is, and if the dog with his mother is his father.(the fact that he really doesn't care is there..but that is due to his lower intelligence)..but he is a dog.
However, more and more western families are in the same situation, they dont know who their fathers are, whether the man with his mother in the bedroom is his father or not...not too different from the dog is it.(I say this with a little caution, since many values are still intact in western societies in many areas and many families).
All this seems irrelevant to the Burka and the Bikini. But if the so called liberation of women and men as well had been a little moderated.. would such moral degradation of society have occurred?
Where men and animals can no longer be identified by their habits?

I despise imposition of anything on any person, but if there is a recommendation of an act then is it not prudent to see why.. The Burka isnt the gauge of modesty..(far from it from my experience). But it does act as barrier for natural instincts to break out...
As for the need for men to be more tolerant.. well Islam does urge men to lower their gaze( as a public message to other guys.. it means to avert to a different view from time to time while talking to a woman so your visual attention is kept from focusing..doesn't mean you look away so she feels awkward and doesn't mean you stare at her bosom modestly )..as a means to prevent the mind focusing its thinking process on her.
But..all the while.. I can be the epitome of modesty and character, but a woman in a tank top and skirt has a greater chance of making my blood warm than one in a scarf and proper covering.

 

[Condor]

Thats the problem with Pakistan man. You guys just have to learn to be self sufficient some day.

For how long are you going to continue holding someone else's ...... hand?

Otherwise every time Qureshi opens his mouth, Pakistan suffers blackouts.

Cheers, Doc

Those are small sized hands and you know it too, Doc.

Even your girls prefer holding the large sized...... hands, of the real He-Men to the West.

 

[sur]

Since discussion is about kids making choice towards islamic attire... these might also be relavant...
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Search for other parts...
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[Fighter488]

Read Bio
Hearts and Minds
Martha Bayles

Between Niqab and Naked​

“It has only one meaning: women’s oppression.” This remark about hijab surprised me, coming as it did from a learned colleague who has traveled extensively in the Middle East and South Asia. To my suggestion that hijab means different things to different people, and that the world is full of covered women who do not consider themselves oppressed, my colleague gave no credence. So I tried another tack: “What about young American women trying to look "hot" by wearing micro-skirts and skin-tight tops showing maximum cleavage? Does that, too, have only one meaning: prostitution?”

“No fair!” my colleague exclaimed. “You know I have a 13-year-old daughter!”

I claim no expertise on the history of Islamic dress, but as a bare-headed proper Bostonian traveling through Turkey, the Middle East, and South Asia, I have learned that there are almost as many meanings to hijab as there are individuals observing it—and that for young Muslims everywhere, including in the West, the challenge is to find the golden mean between niqab and naked.

Niqab, the face covering worn by Saudi and some other Gulf Arab women, is considered too extreme by the majority of Muslims; so is the tent-like Afghan burqa, with its rectangle of mesh over the eyes. But at the same time, an unveiled college graduate I met in Cairo expressed astonishment at the American meaning of conservative. On a visit to Washington, she had met some young Republicans whose dress (and behavior) struck her as nothing of the kind.

Another liberal Cairene pointed out to me that hijab also applies to men. The occasion was a visit to the Cairo Museum, where along with the ancient stone, a great deal of sunburnt Western flesh was on display. Looking at some British blokes who had discovered shorts and tank-tops but not sunscreen, my companion smiled and told me what her grandmother used to say about male tourists: “Must they walk around in their underwear?”

Then there’s the fashion continuum. In Turkey, hijab tends to be bulky and unstylish, a rustic holdover still spurned by urban elites. In Cairo, by contrast, hijab is on the cutting edge of style. Interviewing an Egyptian scholar writing her dissertation on democracy, I was dazzled by the pale green, blue, and gold of her tightly wrapped head scarf and floating garments, which she wore with full makeup, a French manicure, and killer sunglasses.

Glamour is also paramount in the Gulf. Dubai’s Mall of the Emirates is full of Emirati women buying cosmetics, sexy lingerie, and jewelry galore (when not donning rented parkas to try the indoor ski slope). Eschewing Egyptian color, Gulf women wear black cloaks called abayas. But a Gulf abaya is not a burqa. Made of silky, lightweight chiffon, it is decorated with everything from jet beads to rhinestones to embroidery, and worn with a matching head scarf draped loosely to show plenty of hair.

Call me old-fashioned, but after spending time in Islamic countries, I find it hard to leap to the defense of Western-style sartorial freedom. Young dudes with drawers drooping low on their backsides, Lolitas pushing the legal limit on nudity, and countless middle-aged “mutton dressed as lamb” may feel culturally superior to Muslims who conform to traditional norms of modesty. But they sure don’t look it.

Between Niqab and Naked

 

[LaBong]

She is just a kid! why her wearing burqa deserves such drenched in emotion article and hot discussion in internet? Applaud her if she gets good mark in exam or recite a poem properly, not because she is wearing burqa!

Sigh, our world is just too myopic!