'Bhutto had asked PAF to be ready to attack India's N-sites'

[ashwin]

ISLAMABAD: Slain former premier Benazir Bhutto had directed the Pakistan Air Force to be ready to attack India's nuclear facilities in case
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Pakistan's atomic installations were targeted in 1990, former army chief Gen Mirza Aslam Beg has claimed. ( Watch Video )

Bhutto, the then prime minister, issued the directive to the PAF after reports surfaced that the US, Israelis and Indians were allegedly planning to attack Pakistan's nuclear facilities, Beg told a TV news channel in an interview.

He did not give further details. Beg also claimed that the Saudis had given "bags full of money" to late politician Mahmood Haroon to woo political leaders to join the Islami Jamhoori Ittehad, which was formed in 1988 to ensure that Bhutto did not return to power.

The money was also meant to fund IJI's election campaign, he said.

The former army chief said Haroon had claimed that the "money bags" were so heavy that his "shoulders hurt for days".

Beg said Bhutto had posed "no threat to national security", thus dismissing reports of his differences with the late premier. Bhutto remained "rock solid" in 1990 amid reports of a conspiracy against Pakistan, he said.

However, PML-N parliamentarian Pervaiz Rashid said Beg had "given a very fake statement on the distribution of money by the Inter-Services Intelligence among politicians".

Reacting to Beg's comments in the interview, he said there was no truth in the former army chief's claims.

Former federal minister Ejazul Haq, the son of late military ruler Gen Zia-ul-Haq, said Beg should participate in the criminal investigation into the deaths of his father and Bhutto if he has information about the killers.

He also said the government should set up a judicial council to investigate politicians who received money from intelligence agencies.

 

[ashwin]

My notion of Pakistan going nuclear is different.

Everyone in India was 100% confirmed that Pakistan will follow for the nuclear tests after India. It was in favor of India to make Pakistan do the tests. India planned it and was ready for the sanctions before doing the tests where as in case of Pakistan it was out of reaction for Indian tests. It gave a major blow to the already in turmoil Pakistan economy

The days of conventional war are over these days. the war has extended beyond the borders. It has become more of economic and social war. This is for sure India and Pakistan with their arsenal of nuclear bombs and missiles are not going for war in the traditional ways.

It is a general belief in Pakistan that India did not fired a single bullet in 2002 standoff and Indians are cowards. Indians never wanted to fire a bullet. the main motivation was to make Pakistan mobilize its troops and to add few couple of more dollars to the economy of Pakistan and then project India in international platform as a peace loving country. It was simple logic as "See guys they did this. we are peace loving country so we are not fighting" It mounted more pressure on Pakistan and giving a blow to the image.

Same was the case of 26/11 where India used the WOT card to make Pakistan shift its troops to eastern border which made americans to put pressure on Pakistan to accept the dossier and to take steps. So pakistan had the pressure to accept Indian terms based on American pressure. Two fighters entering Pakistan Air Space was an attempt to make Pakistan to take steps to mobilize its troops on eastern border where we can mount pressure on Pakistan from US who is figting on the western side. At the end of the day Pakistan accepted them as their nationals further impacting the image of Pakistan on the international platform.

Even what the belief is, Pakistan doing tests for missiles and other defence technologies, India projects it as "See guys they have more dangerous weapons then us. they are unstable. they use your money for weapons." So at the end of the day it impacts already declining image of Pakistan. In case of India half of tests fail. The simple theory is if you have 100 advanced weapons back home and you come to me and say help me out. i would definitely think twice.

Indians are well known for their scientists and engineers. When we test it fails everytime. I certainly doubt it.

With these projections today Pakistan is fighting WOT with US and still looked upon suspiciously. She is killing his own soldiers and still US questions its credibility.

 

[praveen]

My notion of Pakistan going nuclear is different.

Everyone in India was 100% confirmed that Pakistan will follow for the nuclear tests after India. It was in favor of India to make Pakistan do the tests. India planned it and was ready for the sanctions before doing the tests where as in case of Pakistan it was out of reaction for Indian tests. It gave a major blow to the already in turmoil Pakistan economy

The days of conventional war are over these days. the war has extended beyond the borders. It has become more of economic and social war. This is for sure India and Pakistan with their arsenal of nuclear bombs and missiles are not going for war in the traditional ways.

It is a general belief in Pakistan that India did not fired a single bullet in 2002 standoff and Indians are cowards. Indians never wanted to fire a bullet. the main motivation was to make Pakistan mobilize its troops and to add few couple of more dollars to the economy of Pakistan and then project India in international platform as a peace loving country. It was simple logic as "See guys they did this. we are peace loving country so we are not fighting" It mounted more pressure on Pakistan and giving a blow to the image.

Same was the case of 26/11 where India used the WOT card to make Pakistan shift its troops to eastern border which made americans to put pressure on Pakistan to accept the dossier and to take steps. So pakistan had the pressure to accept Indian terms based on American pressure. Two fighters entering Pakistan Air Space was an attempt to make Pakistan to take steps to mobilize its troops on eastern border where we can mount pressure on Pakistan from US who is figting on the western side. At the end of the day Pakistan accepted them as their nationals further impacting the image of Pakistan on the international platform.

Even what the belief is, Pakistan doing tests for missiles and other defence technologies, India projects it as "See guys they have more dangerous weapons then us. they are unstable. they use your money for weapons." So at the end of the day it impacts already declining image of Pakistan. In case of India half of tests fail. The simple theory is if you have 100 advanced weapons back home and you come to me and say help me out. i would definitely think twice.

Indians are well known for their scientists and engineers. When we test it fails everytime. I certainly doubt it.

With these projections today Pakistan is fighting WOT with US and still looked upon suspiciously. She is killing his own soldiers and still US questions its credibility.

Put it simply we have to make them outspend

 

[ashwin]

Put it simply we have to make them outspend

The simple logic is if we go for weapons as in case of nuclear submarine the pressure goes on Pakistan to do something. Test some missiles or get something to counter that. This is the pressure which builds from the sentiments of the general public. And now if Pakistan goes for it the pressure builds from the international society about the loans and aid which they are providing. So the Pakistani politics is caught up in between.

Pakistan needs aid. That is the fact of the day. If they do not develop themselves then the economic pressure builds up. and the economic pressure on the common public creates more chaos as evident from Baloch area. More is the chaos more India can project it with the image of unstable country with nuclear weapons and justify its cause for military expenditure. so it forms a chain. Thanks to international presence of Indian media. At the end of the day its Pakistani politics which gets into trouble with pressure from external and internal side.

At the end of the day the ball gets in Indian court. Why to fire bullets?

 

[Skywalker]

Keep dreaming guys. We will see when the time comes that for how long your economy survives.

 

[Spring Onion]

Put it simply we have to make them outspend

And more simply China have to make India outspend and the cycle goes on.

 

[BRAHMOS]

And more simply China have to make India outspend and the cycle goes on.

But china hasnt been successful in making us do that, we rely on quality whereas China and its partners rely on quantity.....

 

[ashwin]

And more simply China have to make India outspend and the cycle goes on.

As far as China is concerned at any juncture of time if we are able get in peace with China this would be trouble for you. the motivating factors are that India would be better partner for the long run as far as economic dynamics are concerned. So if we are able to settle our disputes and make partnerships then the dependence of Pakistan defense industry on China would be in trouble.

 

[ashwin]

Keep dreaming guys. We will see when the time comes that for how long your economy survives.

Sir we are surviving with the second highest growth rate. Chinese have the best growth rate and then comes India. So who is dreaming?

Its the Chinese and the Indians running the economic show right now.

 

[BRAHMOS]

As far as China is concerned at any juncture of time if we are able get in peace with China this would be trouble for you. the motivating factors are that India would be better partner for the long run as far as economic dynamics are concerned. So if we are able to settle our disputes and make partnerships then the dependence of Pakistan defense industry on China would be in trouble.

you said it, Already China and India are coming to good terms, well If that happens, pakistan will be alone....

 

[ashwin]

Well we know Chinese are better then us for the time being and we accept it. We are trying to catch up with them and may be with all our efforts and hard work we may catch up.

We here in India dont suffer from the complex that we are better then Hindu Indians and vice versa. No one in India says "We are better race or have a better religion then chinese" we simply put "China can be a threat and is growing fast we have to catch up with them"

 

[Spring Onion]

But china hasnt been successful in making us do that, we rely on quality whereas China and its partners rely on quantity.....

yes for the last many years India had not bought one weapon

India biggest arms buyer: US report

Press Trust of India
Posted online: Sunday, November 05, 2006 at 1706 hours IST


Washington, November 5: India was the biggest arms buyer among developing nations in 2005, finalising arms transfer agreements worth USD 5.4 billion, according to a US Congressional study.



Saudi Arabia ranked second at USD 3.4 billion, followed by China with USD 2.8 billion in such agreements, the Congressional Research Service says.

According to the study on transfer of conventional arms to developing countries between 1998-2005, India signed USD 12.9 billion in arms transfer agreements between 2002-2005, up from USD 7.8 billion in the earlier 1998-2001 period (in current dollars).

"This increase reflects the continuation of a military modernisation effort by India, underway since the 1990s, and based primarily on major arms agreements with Russia," the CRS report says.


The report also pointed out that India has expanded its weapons supplier base, purchasing the Phalcon early warning defense system aircraft in 2004 from Israel for USD 1.1 billion, and a myriad of items from France in 2005, in particular six Scorpene diesel attack submarines for USD 3.5 billion.

In 2005, Russia ranked first among suppliers in arms transfer agreements to developing nations with USD 7 billion or 23.2 per cent of all such agreements, followed by France with USD 6.3 billion. The US came in at third with USD 6.2 billion in such agreements.

However, the US topped the list in actual delivery or arms during the period, valued at USD 8.1 billion, followed by Russia (USD 2.7 billion) and the United Kingdom (USD 2.4 billion).

From 2002-2005, the United States and Russia dominated the arms market in the developing nations, with the supplier duo collectively making nearly 60 per cent of all arms transfer agreements.

The total value of all arms transfer agreements with developing nations from 1998-2005 was USD 177.8 billion in current dollars. India alone accounted for 11.6 per cent of the agreements during these eight years.

In the recent period from 2002-2005, India made USD 12.9 billion in arms transfer agreements. This total constituted 14.4 per cent of all such agreements with developing nations (USD 89.8 billion in current dollars). China ranked second with USD 10.2 billion (11.4 per cent).

During 1998-2001, the top ten recipients collectively accounted for 69 per cent of all developing world arms transfer agreements. During 2002-2005, they accounted for 67.1 per cent.

Russia, the CRS maintains, has become the principal supplier of advanced conventional weaponry to China while maintaining its position as principal arms supplier to India.

Russia has also made progress in expanding its client base in Asia, receiving aircraft orders from Malaysia, Vietnam, and Indonesia.

India biggest arms buyer: US report

And if you think and you are convinced that Chinese and Pakistani weapons are not of the quality then India should not be of any concern, why you are every time then start crying.

 

[Spring Onion]

As far as China is concerned at any juncture of time if we are able get in peace with China this would be trouble for you. the motivating factors are that India would be better partner for the long run as far as economic dynamics are concerned. So if we are able to settle our disputes and make partnerships then the dependence of Pakistan defense industry on China would be in trouble.

Then Keeping in mind this scenario Pakistan should be spending more on defence.

 

[BRAHMOS]

yes for the last many years India had not bought one weapon

India biggest arms buyer: US report

Press Trust of India
Posted online: Sunday, November 05, 2006 at 1706 hours IST


Washington, November 5: India was the biggest arms buyer among developing nations in 2005, finalising arms transfer agreements worth USD 5.4 billion, according to a US Congressional study.



Saudi Arabia ranked second at USD 3.4 billion, followed by China with USD 2.8 billion in such agreements, the Congressional Research Service says.

According to the study on transfer of conventional arms to developing countries between 1998-2005, India signed USD 12.9 billion in arms transfer agreements between 2002-2005, up from USD 7.8 billion in the earlier 1998-2001 period (in current dollars).

"This increase reflects the continuation of a military modernisation effort by India, underway since the 1990s, and based primarily on major arms agreements with Russia," the CRS report says.


The report also pointed out that India has expanded its weapons supplier base, purchasing the Phalcon early warning defense system aircraft in 2004 from Israel for USD 1.1 billion, and a myriad of items from France in 2005, in particular six Scorpene diesel attack submarines for USD 3.5 billion.

In 2005, Russia ranked first among suppliers in arms transfer agreements to developing nations with USD 7 billion or 23.2 per cent of all such agreements, followed by France with USD 6.3 billion. The US came in at third with USD 6.2 billion in such agreements.

However, the US topped the list in actual delivery or arms during the period, valued at USD 8.1 billion, followed by Russia (USD 2.7 billion) and the United Kingdom (USD 2.4 billion).

From 2002-2005, the United States and Russia dominated the arms market in the developing nations, with the supplier duo collectively making nearly 60 per cent of all arms transfer agreements.

The total value of all arms transfer agreements with developing nations from 1998-2005 was USD 177.8 billion in current dollars. India alone accounted for 11.6 per cent of the agreements during these eight years.

In the recent period from 2002-2005, India made USD 12.9 billion in arms transfer agreements. This total constituted 14.4 per cent of all such agreements with developing nations (USD 89.8 billion in current dollars). China ranked second with USD 10.2 billion (11.4 per cent).

During 1998-2001, the top ten recipients collectively accounted for 69 per cent of all developing world arms transfer agreements. During 2002-2005, they accounted for 67.1 per cent.

Russia, the CRS maintains, has become the principal supplier of advanced conventional weaponry to China while maintaining its position as principal arms supplier to India.

Russia has also made progress in expanding its client base in Asia, receiving aircraft orders from Malaysia, Vietnam, and Indonesia.


And if you think and you are convinced that Chinese and Pakistani weapons are not of the quality then India should not be of any concern, why you are every time then start crying.

Why buy when we can develop.... And When Have we cried over your weapons.... We have weapons to counter those... We are not so superior to China, but we are light years ahead of pakistan... And we consider pakistan no threat at all, the race is between china and India.... We are only worried of your weapons falling into bad hands.

 

[Skywalker]

Sir we are surviving with the second highest growth rate. Chinese have the best growth rate and then comes India. So who is dreaming?

Its the Chinese and the Indians running the economic show right now.

I repeat my words, keep dreaming about your economy, we will see when the time comes.