Bhensa has been controlled.

[Peaceful Civilian]

They may have planted the seeds, but many have nurtured it into the florid result we have today. The next generations are far more likely to self-destruct than to rectify this situation.

Look what erdogan has done to beautiful country turkey , it is burning due to wrong policies. Peace is looking difficult under AKP party. Dictator Erdogan is busy arresting people commenting on twitter & Facebook just to revenge opponents instead of dealing extremism & terrorism. They again need secular leader like mustafa Kemal attaturk but damage is done and it will take decade to settle & stabilize country. Attacks on night clubs , suicide attacks on peaceful protests & others will continue . AKP Has soft stance on militants like we have terrorist sympathizers. Some people really don't use brain, such narrow minded people has to suffer. Feeding snakes, and expecting them to guard you.
About Pakistan I think things will change in future, but it will take some decades.Secularism has to make place , and will, extremism will go to gutter. Our new generation loves songs, loves singing, dancing in school, prefers science & want to learn , more open than previous decade time. Better time coming ahead! More international school should invest in Pakistan and give modern education. Media will play key role in this. Gone are days when you ask/force news anchors, journalists for dupatta. We will become more open society, if one takes burka on news channel, other will not criticize it, if other don't wear hijab/dupatta, other has nothing to do in her business.
Time is changing slowly.

 

[VCheng]

Look what erdogan has done to beautiful country turkey , it is burning due to wrong policies. Peace is looking difficult under AKP party. Dictator Erdogan is busy arresting people commenting on twitter & Facebook just to revenge opponents instead of dealing extremism & terrorism. They again need secular leader like mustafa Kemal attaturk but damage is done and it will take decade to settle & stabilize country. Attacks on night clubs , suicide attacks on peaceful protests & others will continue . AKP Has soft stance on militants like we have terrorist sympathizers. Some people really don't use brain, such narrow minded people has to suffer. Feeding snakes, and expecting them to guard you.
About Pakistan I think things will change in future, but it will take some decades.Secularism has to make place , and will, extremism will go to gutter. Our new generation loves songs, loves singing, dancing in school, prefers science & want to learn , more open than previous decade time. Better time coming ahead! More international school should invest in Pakistan and give modern education. Media will play key role in this. Gone are days when you ask/force news anchors, journalists for dupatta. We will become more open society, if one takes burka on news channel, other will not criticize it, if other don't wear hijab/dupatta, other has nothing to do in her business.
Time is changing slowly.

I will leave your optimism intact, without agreeing with it. What is happening in Turkey will soon come to Pakistan.

 

[django]

so instead of countering me with facts and logic you're threatening me with this really? i didn't committed any blasphemy so what are you gonna tell police?

oh really than let me tag all of them and lets expose your dirty extremist nature.
@Khafee @django @Hell hound @Mentee
@Zibago @Zaki @Moonlight @RealNapster

Bro you are a patriotic Pakistani and no one should question your patriotism or Aqeedah. Kudos

 

[M. Sarmad]

Hate speech is a fitnah whether the perpetrator of it is a sectarian extremist or an atheist extremist. Churning out such content on a daily basis invites the likes of mumtaz Qadri to take the law into their own hands since the 'state' appears helpless in front of their vitriol.

The Holy Quran prescribes severe punishment for spreading "Al-Fitnah" or "Al-Fasaad" on Allah's land (5:33). Allah tells us that Fitnah is worse than killing (2:191) ...... FITNAH means unrest or rebellion, especially against a rightful ruler. and FASAD means spreading mischief in a Muslim land, creating disorder in the Muslim community, or a revolution or war against a just government/establishment, or other similar things..


As for hate speech/blasphemy, the Holy Quran does not prescribe any worldly punishment for this offense. Quite the contrary, Allah tells us to ignore and avoid blasphemers, and leave it to Allah almighty to decide their fate (9:74, 4:140, 28:55, 7:199)


So, as per the Holy Quran, hate speech/blasphemy is not "Fitnah/Fasad"(Fasad is a crime punishable by death)...


In fact, the Holy Quran does not prescribe any worldly punishment for religious offenses (Blasphemy, Apostasy etc.) .... The Holy Quran prescribes worldly punishments only for worldly crimes (Murder, Theft, Fasad etc.) ... It's really that simple




And Pakistan law includes the principle of fasad-fil-arz (mischief on earth) ... Let the courts decide whether or not the alleged criminals committed "fasad-fil-arz" .... Section 311, Pakistan Penal Code:

http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/legislation/1860/actXLVof1860.html#123

 

[VCheng]

Facebook says:

"Content that attacks people based on their actual or perceived race, ethnicity, national origin, religion, sex, gender or gender identity, sexual orientation, disability or disease is not allowed. We do, however, allow clear attempts at humor or satire that might otherwise be considered a possible threat or attack. This includes content that many people may find to be in bad taste (ex: jokes, stand-up comedy, popular song lyrics, etc.).
For information about our policies please review the Facebook Community Standards"

And yet they allowed all the pages freely on their private website. That alone shows that the content some have found objectionable was not in violation of their stated policies.

And before somebody says that it is mischief on FB's part, that is just as pathetic an excuse as saying the Interior Minister of the world's only Muslim nuclear power is too afraid to implement the applicable laws within their own self-proclaimed Castle of Islam. Clearly, the State of Pakistan is much stronger than that.

 

[Nilgiri]

More international school should invest in Pakistan and give modern education.

The thing is there is massive govt legislation and control of education sector. Anyone trying to start a school has to pay off the right thugs, grease all the right hands, be prepared to meet the expense from all the delays after starting such a thing and make it impossible to do more than just a one-off project (because govt prevents it from being chartered/franchised/expandable/scaleable easily). Basically any competitor to public schooling is prevented in any significant relevant amount (for mass quality education at lowest cost possible).

Its a problem in India and South Asia too generally....I am diligently gathering resources and information about it in India's case so I can attempt at least one quality school later in life when I have more time while also hoping the situation becomes easier to do so in future too.

 

[VCheng]

The thing is there is massive govt legislation and control of education sector. Anyone trying to start a school has to pay off the right thugs, grease all the right hands, be prepared to meet the expense from all the delays after starting such a thing and make it impossible to do more than just a one-off project (because govt prevents it from being chartered/franchised/expandable/scaleable easily). Basically any competitor to public schooling is prevented in any significant relevant amount (for mass quality education at lowest cost possible).

Until somebody orders everyone to leave within three days, effectively shutting down a whole school system working well, such as what happened to the Turkish schools in Pakistan.

 

[war&peace]

The site is for debate. In every situation there will be people you agree with and disagree with. I will try to avoid qouting you in the future since you like to threaten instead of debate even though I agreed with a lot of what you said. It shows the belief that "you don't agree with me you are wajibul qatal" which is behind the behavior against these bhensa people. I don't see them committing blasphemy here. Its more about our small, easily hurt egos.

The exact thing that is all wrong with Pakistan today. We need to sit together, accept each others views and debate.

Sir,
You might have heard "your liberty to swing your fist ends just where my nose starts"... and this site PDF also is not totally unbridled and uncontrolled forum where anyone can say or post anything..there are rules on this very forum and being a title holder, I think you know more than me. If anyone starts insulting and abusing others on this forum, should we just ignore rather appreciate and support that person under the pretext of freedom of speech? In every country there are rules against blasphemy and even disagreement from official account of some event

• Blasphemy laws in England, Scotland and Ireland (even punishable by death) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy_law_in_the_United_Kingdom#Abolition
• Law against holocaust denial in most of the European countries https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laws_against_Holocaust_denial

I think two examples are sufficient .... now you said they did not commit blasphemy...who are you to determine whether they committed blasphemy or not?... some anonymous title-holder on pdf that's it... The blasphemy has been well defined in the Holy Quran and Hadeeth and we go by that definition and damn whether the liberal-fascists like it or not ... I mean they are such hypocrites that if we say the same thing about their parents and family members, they will be running after us with guns ....
Bhensa admins committed blasphemy and they have to be punished as per the rules of shariah and Pakistan period.

 

[Nilgiri]

Until somebody orders everyone to leave within three days, effectively shutting down a whole school system working well, such as what happened to the Turkish schools in Pakistan.

Yup actions like that would definitely deter many of those potentially wanting to invest into education in Pakistan.

Retroactive ban like that is very bad thing to do for any business, but especially in education where the margins are razor thin because govt has 99%+ control and ability to suffocate and stifle as required in the first place.

What are the details of this action anyway? Was the Turk schooling system you speak of allowed to challenge/appeal in court, at least to recuperate some of its asset money by liquidating etc? Were they all owned by one consortium or were they all independent of each other?

 

[VCheng]

Yup actions like that would definitely deter many of those potentially wanting to invest into education in Pakistan.

Retroactive ban like that is very bad thing to do for any business, but especially in education where the margins are razor thin because govt has 99%+ control and ability to suffocate and stifle as required in the first place.

What are the details of this action anyway? Was the Turk schooling system you speak of allowed to challenge/appeal in court, at least to recuperate some of its asset money by liquidating etc? Were they all owned by one consortium or were they all independent of each other?

That discussion belongs in a different thread altogether, lest I be punished for going off topic, or for responding to the many personal attacks against me being made by title holders.

Back to the topic, why is FB not removing the new Bhensa page?

=================

Edit: Spelling mistake corrected.

 

[HAIDER]

For the umpteenth time, I am only defending the rule of law and nothing else. If blasphemy law applies here, then why has Pakistan's Interior Minister said that these five have no charges pending against them?

I think its almost 900th response .....people fail to understand the question,,where is writ of the state. Instead they keep on hitting the person ......isn t it a tragedy ....... the answer is : Yes Govt Of Pakistan and intelligence agencies are two parallel powers. Unfortunately , agencies are beyond the control of GOP. That s what Nawaz Shareef cry all day and nite. No one is against blasphemy law, but the final authority should be superior courts of Pakistan, not the mobs.

 

[Khafee]

That discussion belongs in a different thread altogether, lest I be punished for going off topic, or for responding to the many personal attacks against me being made by tit holders.

Back to the topic, why is FB not removing the new Bhensa page?

@Horus Please tell this Bhensa supporter to stop being stupid and sexist.

 

[Khafee]

The Holy Quran prescribes severe punishment for spreading "Al-Fitnah" or "Al-Fasaad" on Allah's land (5:33). Allah tells us that Fitnah is worse than killing (2:191) ...... FITNAH means unrest or rebellion, especially against a rightful ruler. and FASAD means spreading mischief in a Muslim land, creating disorder in the Muslim community, or a revolution or war against a just government/establishment, or other similar things..


As for hate speech/blasphemy, the Holy Quran does not prescribe any worldly punishment for this offense. Quite the contrary, Allah tells us to ignore and avoid blasphemers, and leave it to Allah almighty to decide their fate (9:74, 4:140, 28:55, 7:199)


So, as per the Holy Quran, hate speech/blasphemy is not "Fitnah/Fasad"(Fasad is a crime punishable by death)...


In fact, the Holy Quran does not prescribe any worldly punishment for religious offenses (Blasphemy, Apostasy etc.) .... The Holy Quran prescribes worldly punishments only for worldly crimes (Murder, Theft, Fasad etc.) ... It's really that simple




And Pakistan law includes the principle of fasad-fil-arz (mischief on earth) ... Let the courts decide whether or not the alleged criminals committed "fasad-fil-arz" .... Section 311, Pakistan Penal Code:

http://www.pakistani.org/pakistan/legislation/1860/actXLVof1860.html#123

@Zarvan @Naif al Hilali you two are more learned, and I would like your views on the above post.

 

[I.R.A]

In fact, the Holy Quran does not prescribe any worldly punishment for religious offenses (Blasphemy, Apostasy etc.) .... The Holy Quran prescribes worldly punishments only for worldly crimes (Murder, Theft, Fasad etc.) ... It's really that simple

Then why Hazrat Khizar (Peace be upon him) had to kill that young boy?

 

[VCheng]

So many days and still no idea where they might be?


http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=55943#.WIdWslMrLAT

Pakistan: UN expert calls for return of four disappeared human rights and social media activists

Special Rapporteur on the promotion and protection of the right to freedom of opinion and expression David Kaye. UN Photo/Jean-Marc Ferré


11 January 2017 – A United Nations human rights expert today called on the Pakistani authorities to make it a top priority to locate, protect and return home four disappeared human rights and social media campaigners.

“I strongly urge the Government of Pakistan to take every step possible to locate the four missing activists, a first step toward reemphasizing its commitment to freedom of expression at the beginning of the year,” said David Kaye, the UN Special Rapporteur on the right to freedom of expression, in a news release from the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights (OHCHR).

According to the news release, the four men –Waqas Goraya, Asim Saeed, Salman Haider and Ahmed Raza Naseer – went missing between 4 and 7 January. Mainstream media outlets had accused them of promoting blasphemy, a criminal offense in Pakistan.

“Free expression campaigners and experts have long called for the abolition of criminal blasphemy provisions in Pakistan, which may carry the death penalty,” Mr. Kaye noted. “Not only are such laws incompatible with international human rights law, but they also facilitate threats by state and non-state actors seeking to target expression.”

The Special Rapporteur stressed that “all States have an obligation to promote a diverse space and culture for expression, but such culture does not create itself.”

Special Rapporteurs and independent experts are appointed by the Geneva-based UN Human Rights Council to examine and report back on a specific human rights theme or a country situation. The positions are honorary and the experts are not UN staff, nor are they paid for their work.