BATMAN
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What is your ideal world... Iran?
Bhensa has been controlled.
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haviZsultan
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We need to improve our countries rights situation. That much is clear
The exact thing that is all wrong with Pakistan today. We need to sit together, accept each others views and debate.
We need to improve our countries rights situation. That much is clear
The site is for debate. In every situation there will be people you agree with and disagree with. I will try to avoid qouting you in the future since you like to threaten instead of debate even though I agreed with a lot of what you said. It shows the belief that "you don't agree with me you are wajibul qatal" which is behind the behavior against these bhensa people. I don't see them committing blasphemy here. Its more about our small, easily hurt egos.
The exact thing that is all wrong with Pakistan today. We need to sit together, accept each others views and debate.
Bro I never said Iran and its theological constitution is an ideal place. But we need to continue to search for a system best designed for us. One not copied from the west but one also distinct for our own population.
Khafee
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Masafi boy, with what you are in real life, you are bound to have a small fragile ego. Please take good care of it.
Psychic
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I only quoted parts with which I didn't agree.
Hate speech is a fitnah whether the perpetrator of it is a sectarian extremist or an atheist extremist. Churning out such content on a daily basis invites the likes of mumtaz Qadri to take the law into their own hands since the 'state' appears helpless in front of their vitriol.
The bhensa people didn't commit blasphemy? Clearly you are unaware of the extent to which these bhensa etc people went in defaming and mocking our Prophet (SAW). Clearly you haven't visited their pages when they were at their peak for you to make such a statement.
It's not about hurt egos. Criticizing,arguing and raising questions is one thing and mocking someone is quiet another. Just as this forum has some rules, some code of conduct so are there rules regarding blasphemy in Pakistan. You can't make degoratory cartoons of the prohet (SAW) in the Islamic republic of Pakistan which these 'activists' did on a daily basis.
airmarshal
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According to Amir Liaquat program, the Bhensa page is up and running with an Indian IP address.
VCheng
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Another point of view:
http://www.dawn.com/news/1310211
I've known Salman Haider for 14 years and he is not anti-Islam
IMRAN BUKHARI
In September 2002, I got admission in MSc in Psychology at Government College University (GCU), Lahore. A few months prior, I had pledged allegiance to famous religious scholar Dr Israr Ahmed and made the struggle for an Islamic revolution my primary aim in life.
I met Salman Haider at GCU, where he was a senior in my department. We eventually became great friends. He had a gifted mind and was amongst the few bright students in the programme. Apart from being an excellent student, he was an active participant in the drama and debating clubs.
He won several prizes at the university and was popular amongst students and teachers alike. As a person, he was kindhearted, straightforward, and loving toward people around him.
I come from Multan and whatever inhibitions I had as someone who found himself in a big city, Salman helped me shed them. My integration in a new environment was made possible by Salman. Even though he was liberal and I was religious, he never allowed difference of opinion come between our friendship.
Read our Editorial: Missing activists
Just as he was close to his other friends, he was close to me as well. After completing his degree, Salman received a scholarship from the Higher Education Commission (HEC) and moved to Quaid-i-Azam University (QAU) in Islamabad to pursue his PhD.
When I finished my degree, it was Salman who convinced me to apply for the same scholarship. I followed his footsteps and went to QAU for my PhD as well.
QAU’s hostel 2, room 58 had two occupants: Salman and Shahadat. I was unable to get hostel accommodation when I joined the university in 2006. But Salman came to my rescue and gave me space in his room.
The room originally had two single-beds, but Salman and Shahadat took them out and arranged floor beddings instead for the three of us. The only space we had left was between the door and the mattresses; we kept our shoes there. Although we had a fan, the room used to get so hot that we had to soak our mattresses with water every two hours.
One summer, two friends from Multan gave me a surprise visit. I thought they would go back later at night, but they were planning on sleeping over. We barely had room to move, but Salman accommodated us all. He gave his bed to my friends and slept on a chador in the little space where we had our shoes.
On the same topic: Times of iron and fire: The case of Pakistan's missing activists
As I mentioned earlier, I have been a follower of Dr Israr Ahmed since 2002. In these years, my religious thought has developed and my inclination toward Islam has increased. So when I saw the propaganda against Salman on social media, I felt it was time for me to tell people the truth about my dear friend.
I have known Salman for 14 years and in that time, I never heard him express anti-theistic or anti-Islam sentiments. He was not against religion, but against ignorance, narrow-mindedness, and socio-political oppression. It is an outright lie that Salman was against Islam.
Those who are smearing him don’t know how enlightened he was. Gifted people like Salman are assets to our society.
I found Salman’s views and values to be far more humanistic than the values of these so-called mazhab ke thekedaars.
Salman valued logic and rationality was his litmus test for accepting or rejecting ideas. He always listened to contesting views graciously. He was especially critical of people who exploited slogans and political ideologies for their own benefit. I often heard Salman criticising his own comrades.
Our deep friendship was due to his broad-mindedness and accepting nature. And even though we were on opposing ideological poles, we still found common ground when it came to our analysis of society.
We both wondered why Muslims were never able to live peacefully with each other even though they were all followers of the same religion.
Our second grievance was regarding the role of the state. We both firmly believed that it was the state’s responsibility to ensure the welfare, well-being and security of its citizens.
Read further: Salman Haider’s disappearance won’t silence our voices
We would often lament how this country, whose founders envisaged it to be a welfare state, had deviated from those ideals.
Today, power, authority and wealth are concentrated in the hands of a few. As soon as the exploited, cheated, and oppressed raise their voices to demand their rights, they are labeled ‘traitors,’ ‘foreign agents,’ ‘anti-religion’ and so on.
I think one such voice was Salman's. Unsurprisingly, he is now being labeled as a ‘traitor’ and a ‘blasphemer’.
Salman’s real crime was to raise his voice – not for his personal benefit but for the rights of others. His crime was to dream of a society where there was freedom and where people lived without fear.
It is really painful for me to be part of demonstrations demanding Salman’s recovery.
He used to protest against the missing persons and now he himself is missing.
He wanted freedom for others, but today we wait for him to be freed.
This blog originally appeared in Urdu and has been translated by Bilal Karim Mughal.
http://www.dawn.com/news/1310211
I've known Salman Haider for 14 years and he is not anti-Islam
IMRAN BUKHARI
In September 2002, I got admission in MSc in Psychology at Government College University (GCU), Lahore. A few months prior, I had pledged allegiance to famous religious scholar Dr Israr Ahmed and made the struggle for an Islamic revolution my primary aim in life.
I met Salman Haider at GCU, where he was a senior in my department. We eventually became great friends. He had a gifted mind and was amongst the few bright students in the programme. Apart from being an excellent student, he was an active participant in the drama and debating clubs.
He won several prizes at the university and was popular amongst students and teachers alike. As a person, he was kindhearted, straightforward, and loving toward people around him.
I come from Multan and whatever inhibitions I had as someone who found himself in a big city, Salman helped me shed them. My integration in a new environment was made possible by Salman. Even though he was liberal and I was religious, he never allowed difference of opinion come between our friendship.
Read our Editorial: Missing activists
Just as he was close to his other friends, he was close to me as well. After completing his degree, Salman received a scholarship from the Higher Education Commission (HEC) and moved to Quaid-i-Azam University (QAU) in Islamabad to pursue his PhD.
When I finished my degree, it was Salman who convinced me to apply for the same scholarship. I followed his footsteps and went to QAU for my PhD as well.
QAU’s hostel 2, room 58 had two occupants: Salman and Shahadat. I was unable to get hostel accommodation when I joined the university in 2006. But Salman came to my rescue and gave me space in his room.
The room originally had two single-beds, but Salman and Shahadat took them out and arranged floor beddings instead for the three of us. The only space we had left was between the door and the mattresses; we kept our shoes there. Although we had a fan, the room used to get so hot that we had to soak our mattresses with water every two hours.
One summer, two friends from Multan gave me a surprise visit. I thought they would go back later at night, but they were planning on sleeping over. We barely had room to move, but Salman accommodated us all. He gave his bed to my friends and slept on a chador in the little space where we had our shoes.
On the same topic: Times of iron and fire: The case of Pakistan's missing activists
As I mentioned earlier, I have been a follower of Dr Israr Ahmed since 2002. In these years, my religious thought has developed and my inclination toward Islam has increased. So when I saw the propaganda against Salman on social media, I felt it was time for me to tell people the truth about my dear friend.
I have known Salman for 14 years and in that time, I never heard him express anti-theistic or anti-Islam sentiments. He was not against religion, but against ignorance, narrow-mindedness, and socio-political oppression. It is an outright lie that Salman was against Islam.
Those who are smearing him don’t know how enlightened he was. Gifted people like Salman are assets to our society.
I found Salman’s views and values to be far more humanistic than the values of these so-called mazhab ke thekedaars.
Salman valued logic and rationality was his litmus test for accepting or rejecting ideas. He always listened to contesting views graciously. He was especially critical of people who exploited slogans and political ideologies for their own benefit. I often heard Salman criticising his own comrades.
Our deep friendship was due to his broad-mindedness and accepting nature. And even though we were on opposing ideological poles, we still found common ground when it came to our analysis of society.
We both wondered why Muslims were never able to live peacefully with each other even though they were all followers of the same religion.
Our second grievance was regarding the role of the state. We both firmly believed that it was the state’s responsibility to ensure the welfare, well-being and security of its citizens.
Read further: Salman Haider’s disappearance won’t silence our voices
We would often lament how this country, whose founders envisaged it to be a welfare state, had deviated from those ideals.
Today, power, authority and wealth are concentrated in the hands of a few. As soon as the exploited, cheated, and oppressed raise their voices to demand their rights, they are labeled ‘traitors,’ ‘foreign agents,’ ‘anti-religion’ and so on.
I think one such voice was Salman's. Unsurprisingly, he is now being labeled as a ‘traitor’ and a ‘blasphemer’.
Salman’s real crime was to raise his voice – not for his personal benefit but for the rights of others. His crime was to dream of a society where there was freedom and where people lived without fear.
It is really painful for me to be part of demonstrations demanding Salman’s recovery.
He used to protest against the missing persons and now he himself is missing.
He wanted freedom for others, but today we wait for him to be freed.
This blog originally appeared in Urdu and has been translated by Bilal Karim Mughal.
what voice did he raise? every post ob their pages are anti islam in one sense or the other....
can any one point out a single issue that these guys have worked on for social good, and that too without trying to defile islam?
haviZsultan
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Friend I have nothing personal against you. You are always combative though just because we happened to disagree once. If this is not a fragile ego what is.
If they did the law should take action, not vigilantes. It should be proven in a court of law that they hurt the sentiments of the majority. As I said I feel we are far too sensitive about blasphemy. Such debates critical to all religion were held in part during the abassid caliphate as well. Note that I am not supported supposed blasphemy but promoting debate.
SirHatesALot
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You folks just gave some random bloggers international attention.congrats.
Skywalker
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I wasn't even aware what Bhensa or mochi or some other pages were, but the day we started discussing them in the media and different forums they got the publicity tenfolds and this is what I believed our enemies want, they know we are bunch of emotional stupid people and would ultimately play in their hands, read the history we are committing same mistakes time n again only medium or way of doing it is changed. Please for once don't fall in those basturds traps.
haviZsultan
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Instead of keeping "blasphemous content" away from the Pakistani public the youtube ban succeeded in stealing the income of numerous video producers, stifle the rights of activists and disallowed Pakistani citizens to speak for their religion positively. If the ban on youtube was against blasphemy then it only kept away Pakistanis from expressing themselves on youtube or even finding knowledge on the great platform. It was the biggest failure of the government
Not surprisingly our dogmatic stand on banning all perceived blasphemy without proof is having a similar result. It only gives the anti Islam activists voice. Banning criticism on religion does not allow us or moderate theologians to argue against or express themselves and mainstream Islam peacefully. Instead it crystalizes our opponents often negative views of Islamic tolerance. Christians are far more critical of Christianity than muslims. They are being neutral not us.
I still do believe that action against proven blasphemy should take place but we perceive blasphemy in our own small tiny ways.
VCheng
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The best action to take against perceived blasphemy for any religion is to tolerate it. Everything else, as you describe, is counter-productive.
WarFariX
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bro r u local uae or a pakistani overseas?
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