Beneath the radar, a Russia-Pakistan entente takes shape

[Birbal]

What is the matter with you. It is the general dynamics of a fluid situation. Iran and Russia have in the past been closer to India yet they find themselves turning towards Pakistan and China. You cant look at just Pakistan. Its not Pakistan running to anyone. If that was the case Russians would not be interested. Russia wants closer links with China too. Chinese relationship with India and Pakistan also becomes relevant. There are wheels within wheels. Try to look beyond simplistic two nation relations

Russia has always been a traditional ally of India, but has also been looking to bring China into the partnership for quite some tim. I think Russia has always been interested in friendship with any nation in the region, but for the first time the Pakistani leadership has shown a willingness to stand up to America, so Russia sees that opportunity opening up.

Iran, which has never had any historical allies since the Islamic Revolution, but whose anti-Taliban stance agreed with India and Russia, isn't really looking to get closer to anybody, including Pakistan. It's chosen self-reliance as its path.

 

[VelocuR]

Dear friend, u treating Pakistan like some child who is crying mummy mummy after some thrashing from uncle Sam. And yes as Aryan pointed out, Pakistan is not running after Russia.
My take on Pakistan Russia relationship is that currently Pakistan trying fill up trust deficit with russia. That's it. Being Indian, I don't see anything irksome here. Coz, even if u want to go further with Russia, Russia is not in china like position to provide assistant to u on long term loans.
Therefore, they done a right thing by welcoming u. Regarding anything on pipeline, I think we should discuss after Iran us and Israel geo politics. Until there is this nuclear weapon issue. No one will ever construct tht pipeline, no matter how hard u try.

That's what Pakistan did so far honestly. Russia's past bitter memories with Pakistan is unforgettable.....Do you really think Russia (via Soviet officers) will change good heart?

Putin is not stupid, he had some bad experiences with Pakistan in the past, who knows!

Hey Canadian Raptor! There are no permanent friends or enemies in International Relations(Do i need to remind you of Europe before 1945?).

Yes, Europeans became more united after the first and second war experiences, they realized something benefits. For the current SouthAsia, they will try third world war experiences and maybe fourth. We haven't learned anything.

It is clear to me that you have not read all the posts on the cars threads. What do you get out of putting Pakistan or Pakistanis down? We have been cursed with leaderships as all Muslim countries have in the neo colonial game that America has played since the second world war in bribing our leaders.It was these bribed traitors who sold Pakistan to Americans. The average Pakistan as you full well know has never felt any great like to America.

Yes it is correct Russia will get benefits from Pakistan but so what,. As I said Our interests converge. The weight of those converging interests is such that even a bribed leadership can not overcome them. Do you think Zardari and his like want to go to Russia for medical treatment-no, send their kids to Russian unis-no, invest their looted wealth in Russia-no. But the convergent interests and geo strategic convergence that seems beyond your comprehension is forcing these events

Pakistan itself has been putting us down last sixty five years. They will definitely do again to put us down. No one is intersted to look up at the role model of Quad e Azam.

 

[cyphercide]

But mate that is a misnomer. Pakistan should never have allied with America because it was never in our interests. It was only the rich 100 200 families who have ruled Pakistan directly and indirectly who want to send their kids to Oxford, invest their looted money in America and west who have pushed us towards alliances with the west.

For the first time I think Pakistan in improving its relations with Russia is not looking for protection but because it is in the interest of Pakistan and it's people.

As I said earlier Russia is coming to Pakistan as much as Pakistan is going towards Russia its because both countries benefit from the Putin plans for our neighbourhood

I don't think that being allied with the United States is the bigger problem for Pakistan,the primary concern would be how to effectively handle them and keeping them away from what Pakistan defines as her independent strategic area.The United States still can offer to Pakistan what others can't and by a big margin of it too.It's upto Pakistan to clarify the negotiables and non-negotiables in the equation.

Either way, Amreeka being kicked out of Pakistan would require an extraordinarily persuasive exercise from the latter.

 

[sputnik]

That's what Pakistan did so far honestly. Russia's past bitter memories with Pakistan is unforgettable.....Do you really think Russia (via Soviet officers) will change good heart?

Putin is not stupid, he had some bad experiences with Pakistan in the past, who knows!



Yes, Europeans became more united after the first and second war experiences, they realized something benefits. For the current SouthAsia, they will try third world war experiences and maybe fourth. We haven't learned anything.



Pakistan itself has been putting us down last sixty five years. They will definitely do again to put us down. No one is intersted to look up at the role model of Quad e Azam.

Read post #30 on this thread by Aryan.last two para.
I think u reading too much into these recent visits. Pakistan being used by Russia sounds funny . Infact it is too early to say anything on this. As I said earlier it is just to fill up trust deficit. Relax nobody is going to use you.

 

[jbond197]

For Pakistan/Russian relation to develop they will need to buy Russian weapons/planes thereby moving away from Chinese stuff.. Question is - Is Pakistan ready to ditch China for Russia?

Another question, what will Russia benefit from getting aligned with Pakistan and turning their backs toward India? Some body mentioned Pakistan along with China can provide a big market for Russian Arms. But let me ask you this - When Chinese are producing their weapons themselves then why do they need to buy them from Russia? Even if they decide to buy more from Russians why will they not deal with them on one to one basis instead of carrying Pakistan as baggage..

 

[lem34]

I don't think that being allied with the United States is the bigger problem for Pakistan,the primary concern would be how to effectively handle them and keeping them away from what Pakistan defines as her independent strategic area.The United States still can offer to Pakistan what others can't and by a big margin of it too.It's upto Pakistan to clarify the negotiables and non-negotiables in the equation.

Either way, Amreeka being kicked out of Pakistan would require an extraordinarily persuasive exercise from the latter.

It goes back to leadership. We have had weak leadership who have wanted to side with the west and who do not represent Pakistan. There are countries much smaller resources etc that have managed to defy America.

 

[sputnik]

For Pakistan/Russian relation to develop they will need to buy Russian weapons/planes thereby moving away from Chinese stuff.. Question is - Is Pakistan ready to ditch China for Russia?

Anybody who is analysizing foreign diplomacy with military perspective is doing terribly wrong thing.
If pak get engines for JF-17 and few helis still nothing will change between pak and china & india and Russia. As all of us have time tested relationships.
I would say to the extent that in its current state of India, we should not even take note of such small developments in the region.

 

[lem34]

Read post #30 on this thread by Aryan.last two para.
I think u reading too much into these recent visits. Pakistan being used by Russia sounds funny . Infact it is too early to say anything on this. As I said earlier it is just to fill up trust deficit. Relax nobody is going to use you.

Spot on mate. Its all about interests of our people and states ally because their interests converge period

 

[lem34]

For Pakistan/Russian relation to develop they will need to buy Russian weapons/planes thereby moving away from Chinese stuff.. Question is - Is Pakistan ready to ditch China for Russia?

Another question, what will Russia benefit from getting aligned with Pakistan and turning their backs toward India? Some body mentioned Pakistan along with China can provide a big market for Russian Arms. But let me ask you this - When Chinese are producing their weapons themselves then why do they need to buy them from Russia? Even if they decide to buy more from Russians why will they not deal with them on one to one basis instead of carrying Pakistan as baggage..

Its the geo strategic game about oil and pipelines. Nothing to do with arms purchases. The question is who benefits is it American corporations or the countries in the neighbourhood. Weapons as every day passes Chinese engineers will surpass Russian and American because they are simply producing such large numbers its inevitable. Pakistan can rely on China for weapons

 

[jbond197]

Anybody who is analysizing foreign diplomacy with military perspective is doing terribly wrong thing.
If pak get engines for JF-17 and few helis still nothing will change between pak and china & india and Russia. As all of us have time tested relationships.
I would say to the extent that in its current state of India, we should not even take note of such small developments in the region.

Hey, I don't think giving away 50 Russian engines for JF17 is bothering India even a bit. Probably Russians and Indians would have discussed this behind the scenes to be same page and agreement would have been reached on this issue even before giving green signal to Chinese.

If others read too much in such small developments then they better need to be aware. India is not moving anywhere any time soon. Russia had been a trusted partner and India respects that and I think the feelings are mutual.. India/Russia may go deal with any one but will never ever indulge in activities to harm each other in a bad way.

---------- Post added at 02:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:19 PM ----------

Its the geo strategic game about oil and pipelines. Nothing to do with arms purchases. The question is who benefits is it American corporations or the countries in the neighbourhood. Weapons as every day passes Chinese engineers will surpass Russian and American because they are simply producing such large numbers its inevitable. Pakistan can rely on China for weapons

Russia has huge reserves of oils and Europe, Middle east and a big consumer China sits right next to it. So what role do you think Pakistan can play in this arrangement? Probably, I think of one that is to provide transit routes to India so that Russia can lay pipe lines to send its gas/oil to India (another big consumer).

 

[VelocuR]

Read post #30 on this thread by Aryan.last two para.
I think u reading too much into these recent visits. Pakistan being used by Russia sounds funny . Infact it is too early to say anything on this. As I said earlier it is just to fill up trust deficit. Relax nobody is going to use you.

I am surprised, only Indian like you is friendly to Pakistan. Thumb up. I don't have anything to say until Pakistan leaderships must change. Probably hundred years later, not very soon because Pakistan is not easy to transform from corruption and bribes.

 

[lem34]

Russia has huge reserves of oils and Europe, Middle east and a big consumer China sits right next to it. What role can Pakistan play in this arrangement? Probably, I think of one to provide transit routes to India so that Russia can lay pipe lines to send its gas/oil to India (another big consumer).

Mate the deal is China with Gwador can avoid American and Indian navies if they wish with a pipeline through Pakistan. In any event Russians want to link a pipeline to Iran and Pakistan with Iran and Russia that's 50% of the worlds gas supplies, Russians also need Chinese finance to assist in developing oil and gas under Antartic. Also China will want resilience and ore than one supply route.

---------- Post added at 07:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:29 PM ----------

I am surprised, only Indian like you is friendly to Pakistan. Thumb up. I don't have anything to say until Pakistan leaderships must change. Probably hundred years later, not very soon because Pakistan is not easy to transform from corruption and bribes.

One minute you pm me asking me to talk about Pakistan. Then when I do all you can do us whine about our lot. We must not give up hope. Pakistan is blessed with resources not least our population of 180 million. With your attitude nothing will change even after 100 years.

Wake up Pakistan does not have a monopoly on corruption. All countries have it to some extent and we need to overcome it

 

[jbond197]

Mate the deal is China with Gwador can avoid American and Indian navies if they wish with a pipeline through Pakistan.

China already got pipelines from middle east and why has American and Indian navy come into play? World war 3 is the scenario you are talking about and tbh that is a far away call.. Also lets assume it comes to a point that American Navy plan to block Chinese shipments then why would they not destroy pipelines going through Pakistan..

In any event Russians want to link a pipeline to Iran and Pakistan with Iran and Russia that's 50% of the worlds gas supplies,

Why is the world Russia will link their pipelines to Iranian pipelines? For good sake, if they want to supply it to China then it is sitting right next to it. Why would they go in circles to reach China please explain?

Russians also need Chinese finance to assist in developing oil and gas under Antartic. Also China will want resilience and ore than one supply route.

It's their bilateral issue, Pakistan got nothing to do their and got no leverage either..

 

[joekrish]

Russia's relationship improving with Pakistan is a good step and I wish them luck though I don't think the Russians would connect India's relationship with Pakistan, Russia will surely do what is good for her like any other country.

 

[Lonely Hermit]

Well in today geopolitics it's stupid to be end up in military bloc, it's no longer a cold war. If nation have to move ahead they need corporation all major powers. I think it will be agood move by Pakistan if they improve their relation with Russia.
Remember the old saying In politics there are no permanent enemies nor permanent friends only permanent interest.