Beneath the Ice, the last ‘Salam’

[Al Bhatti]

The wall paper on the main page of the forum says ".............and you my "NATION" are sill sleeping, unfortunately"

The nation is kept busy to just think inside the triangle of "food, cloth and shelter" and now a new triangle has been formed "electricity, gas & water" so that they the politicians remain in power for as long as time can go.

Countries which value it's biggest resource which all countries have (it's citizens) don't even allow their citizens to think about these issues as they are the basic of the basic rights of the citizens and are given to them by the government without even thinking anything else.

 

[satishkumarcsc]

In Western countries if a man dies it is an 'Incident'. In sub-continent if a man dies it is just 'NEWS'.

Pathetic.

 

[Jango]

I feel we did not do enough , fast enough and given up hope too quickly
A nation with 1 million resources at disposal only sent in 200-400 rescue workers
30,000 workers and we would have turned Himalayas upside down

Response was/is too late ..

If we had necessary helicopters sure in first 5 hours we could have transported 5,000-10,000 workers when ice was soft

We could have asked for thermal sett-elite based assistance from foreign parties if we lacked (and we do lack) it

I think its a operational failure and shows our inefficient rescue effort plans which are always apparent when ever we have a situation where helicopters are needed.

I think the families of Soliders have the right to get every single one of them back even if that means after 3 days (when most supplies will last or end) if they get even some part of their loved ones back

Very respectfully I say, you have no idea what you are talking about here sir.

There is no shortage of helis, i dont know from where you made that assumption.

I would just like to ask you, have you ever been up there?

I am sure with proper Transport helicopters we would have been able to transport 30 bulldozers from near by cities and 10 cranes in first 9 hours pretty certain

But because this was urgent matter , probably , in first 3.5 hours the rescue should have started when snow was very soft

Day 1
6:00 am Avalanche occurred
7:00 am Team would have been assigned to handle it
10:00 am 10-20 bulldozers flown in
11:00-3:00pm ...crane + diggers + ice melting chemicals + salt etc
4:00-6:pm night flood lights flown in ... more workers ...

Night shift:
6-8 fly in flame throwers to help melt excess ice sheets faster ....
Ice melting chemicals ... keep spraying it

.......

What are you talking on about?

There are ample Mi-17's in our inventory. But a big problem is the weather, and you can't just predict, at this time, the bulldozers, this time the lights, this time this this time that. '

 

[Rank]

The wall paper on the main page of the forum says ".............and you my "NATION" are sill sleeping, unfortunately"

The nation is kept busy to just think inside the triangle of "food, cloth and shelter" and now a new triangle has been formed "electricity, gas & water" so that they the politicians remain in power for as long as time can go.

Countries which value it's biggest resource which all countries have (it's citizens) don't even allow their citizens to think about these issues as they are the basic of the basic rights of the citizens and are given to them by the government without even thinking anything else.

So who is responsible ??? again not LEADERS "Civilians" are the responsible for all this because how many times people of this nation come out from their homes and protest against the govt ?????? for Electricity and Gas Load Shedding? Fuel prices??? etc

 

[surya kiran]

At those altitudes, with rarefied air, most choppers wont work. Let alone take heavy loads. So if there are 10 choppers which can do the trip, they will have to be used again and again. Also, from experience I can tell you, people working in those altitudes require acclamatisaion. High Alt Sickness can strike if you are not properly used to the heights there. If you push up a 1000 people without accltion you will have 900 of them getting sick. it just increases trouble if even one person falls sick in those terrains.

 

[joekrish]

I'm sure they did their best.

 

[blain2]

I feel we did not do enough , fast enough and given up hope too quickly
A nation with 1 million resources at disposal only sent in 200-400 rescue workers
30,000 workers and we would have turned Himalayas upside down

Response was/is too late ..

If we had necessary helicopters sure in first 5 hours we could have transported 5,000-10,000 workers when ice was soft

We could have asked for thermal sett-elite based assistance from foreign parties if we lacked (and we do lack) it

I think its a operational failure and shows our inefficient rescue effort plans which are always apparent when ever we have a situation where helicopters are needed.

I think the families of Soliders have the right to get every single one of them back even if that means after 3 days (when most supplies will last or end) if they get even some part of their loved ones back

Azad,

There are many technical challenges with just getting people to that area. You have to have a lot of lift capability, then you have to adequately equip the manpower so it can perform in that terrain and then also have enough space for a huge relief team to operate out of.

On all three of these counts, we are limited. So the ones on the ground are trying with what is at their disposal.

You get 30,000 people out there, how do you suppose they would be fed? Accommodated over days?

 

[VCheng]

Azad,

There are many technical challenges with just getting people to that area. You have to have a lot of lift capability, then you have to adequately equip the manpower so it can perform in that terrain and then also have enough space for a huge relief team to operate out of.

On all three of these counts, we are limited. So the ones on the ground are trying with what is at their disposal.

Speed and safety cost money.

How much do you want to spend on one operation, at what speed, and with what risk?

 

[anathema]

Azad,

There are many technical challenges with just getting people to that area. You have to have a lot of lift capability, then you have to adequately equip the manpower so it can perform in that terrain and then also have enough space for a huge relief team to operate out of.

On all three of these counts, we are limited. So the ones on the ground are trying with what is at their disposal.

You get 30,000 people out there, how do you suppose they would be fed? Accommodated over days?

Also i presume you cannot just airlift people to the area - since acclimatization is required. That itself takes some time without which rescue workers would have been open to the peril's of high altitude !

 

[VCheng]

Also i presume you cannot just airlift people to the area - since acclimatization is required. That itself takes some time without which rescue workers would have been open to the peril's of high altitude !

Acclimatization is no problem if all personnel can be equipped with personal portable oxygen generator units in addition to other required gear.

 

[blain2]

Acclimatization is no problem if all personnel can be equipped with personal portable oxygen generator units in addition to other required gear.

It still is an issue even if you have portable oxygen as you cannot have that on all the time but you are stuck at a significant altitude the entire time. The reality of the situation is that the rear HQ of 6 NLI is placed on limited real estate as it is. With the landslide, that space is even more limited as you also have to dig and place the removed snow/mud/rocks somewhere. Secondly I think we all need to understand that there is a method to this madness of recovery work at high altitude and its very different from throwing manpower at relief effort such as in an earthquake where you have bare hands removing debris.

I am sure the Army would move in more troops as needed.

 

[VCheng]

It still is an issue even if you have portable oxygen as you cannot have that on all the time but you are stuck at a significant altitude the entire time. The reality of the situation is that the rear HQ of 6 NLI is placed on limited real estate as it is. With the landslide, that space is even more limited as you also have to dig and place the removed snow/mud/rocks somewhere. Secondly I think we all need to understand that there is a method to this madness of recovery work at high altitude and its very different from throwing manpower at relief effort such as in an earthquake where you have bare hands removing debris.

I am sure the Army would move in more troops as needed.

The units I have in mind can be used 24/7, but I agree with your other points.

I am sure that the recovery effort is being guided by people who know what they are doing as best as the the conditions allow them.

 

[jabalultariq]

If you carefully see the location of NLI Battallion HQ , its right in the path of a potential land slide / avalanche

Sorry couldnt attach the picture, but here is the url

http://www.imposingheadlines.com/2012/04/siachen-landslide-operation-continues.html

 

[MuZammiL Dr. s[1]n]

May all my soldier brethren be blessed always...Aameen!

shaheed ki jo mot hai , wo qom ki haiyaat hai

Lahuu hai jo shaheed ka , wo qom ki zakaat hai .


Allah bless the Lions of PakisTan army , pakisTan navy and PakisTan airforce ... aameen ALLah humma aameen .

 

[jawaddar]

Sir with due respect,many a times villages,which are established for centuries come under avalanche and i think mudslide is a major contributor.