BD’s economy; apparent, noticed and unnoticed.

[CaPtAiN_pLaNeT]

@CaPtAiN_pLaNeT:

There is no question that BD is so poor now because of the former Pakistan era.

As the decades pass, then if things continue like they have for the last 2 decades, BD will catch and then increase it's lead in GDP/capita over Pakistan.

BD is increasing GDP/capita by 5% a year while Pakistan achieved around 3% a year in the 1960s and the 1980s - it's best decades since independence. Those two decades were unique as in the 1960s, Pakistan was able to take billions from Bangladesh in fiscal transfers and in the 1980s the US supplied billions of dollars in aid due to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

I hate to say this but Pakistan has yet to prove in 65 years of independence that it an grow relatively fast without external resources.

Shhh!!! Dnt say this stuff here. Many of your Bangladeshi Pakistani Dalal friend will get more angry on you then the fellow Pakistanis!!!

But saying all these I wish Pakistan and all the south asian countries grow faster. But hate those people those who dnt like to give Bangladesh and it's hard working people it's due credit for achieving higher growth rate then east pakistan era and for improving it's HDI and various social indicators.

 

[Skies]

@CaPtAiN_pLaNeT

So your argument has turned now from average GDP growth rate to average per capita gdp growth rate and comparison is selected 8 year of Pakistan era to that of long 40 years of independent Bangladesh.

#Prove that I wrote about average GDP growth rate, not the average per capita gdp growth rate, show me which post, which line, otherwise you are a lair.

GDP growth and GDP per capita growth rate are two different thing but closely related to each other. From the time of 1950-70 Bangladesh witnessed a population growth rate was on average 1.96% each year where population in 1950 was 45,645,964 and in 1970 population was 67,331,349. In contrast in post independent Bangladesh population growth rate was 2.08% on average this year where in 1972 population was 70,676,996 and in 2012 it was 161,083,804. That means Bangladesh had to share its GDP and its growth with higher number of people.

#To calculate GDP per capita, number of population is used, not population growth rate, why showing that, makes no sense. Anyway.

And interestingly you used this long 40 years average per capita GDP growth to say it is exaggerated to say there were discrimination when it was in all sectors and can be seen clearly in GDP when it was almost same in 1950 but in 1970 it increased by more then 60% for west Pakistan.

#We are talking about average growth rate, not total growth rate like 60%. But where is your data of 60% and 1950, anyway?

Okay new calculation again, for sake of you, Captain,

This calculation is based on the current US dollar value of 2012 which is subjected to change from year to year.

Obtained from: http://api.worldbank.org/datafiles/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD_Indicator_MetaData_en_EXCEL.xls

Now here,
I have taken the last 10 [1970-1960] years BD at PK-era and the last 30 [2012-1982] years in the modern BD-era.

Yes, 10 years vs. 30 years, and the comparison makes more sense as I have taken the data of modern BD era [no war effect], and the last 10 years of Pk era assuming that the more discrimination was happened in 60s which leaded to the six points, rather than the 50s.

Calculation:

Equation: LN (End Year/First year)*(1/Number of years)*100

Here:

End year GDP per capita in 1970 = 135.61
First year GDP per capita in 1960 = 86.29
Number of years = 1970-1960 = 10
Result = 4.52% [BD at PK-era]

Calculation:

Equation: LN (End Year/First year)*(1/Number of years)*100

Here:

End year GDP per capita in 2012 = 747.33
First year GDP per capita in 1982 = 207.75
Number of years = 2012-1982 = 30
Result = 4.26% [BD at BD-era]


Comment: 4.52% > 4.26%, so sill I can see that the BD at PK-era had higher rate than the last 30 years from 1982-2012. And it indicates that the talking about the discrimination was exaggerated.

But still in terms of US value it increased at a higher rate which only explains the reason and it is none other then fluctuation of Pakistani rupee at that time against US dollar not for any economic prosperity or any higher living standard.

#Yes, this is the matter, generally, current US dollar value is used to compare country to country, as we see in the the newspapers or websites. This current US dollar value takes into account of local currency's value of appreciation and depreciation of the all the past years to present years. It makes more sense to think that what improvement BD has done based on the capital BD got from E.pk after the war comparing to the Pk-era, and that change can be easily understood if current US dollar value is used, not local currency. Therefore, current US dollar value using is more justified here, and I also did that.

Out of the 8 year East Pakistan witnessed 5 times negate per capita GDP growth where as west Pakistan seen none!!! As it was likely mainly because West Pakistan due to heavy discriminatory policy used to transfer all the revenue generated to the West where despite East Pakistan had almost 60% of the total Pakistani population. In terms of rupee East Pakistan did not see much economic prosperity from 1950-1970.

#We are comparing the BD at pk-era with BD at modern BD-era. Anyway, that 5 times negative rate is obtained due to using PK and BD's local currencies' current value, but I am here using only the single international currency which is the Current US value, and now there are only two little negative growths in 1964 and 1968 instead of five shown in the picture below.

pic:

Plus, W.pk was the investor and profit taker in E.pk, like all Jute industries were established by W.pk, so naturally W.pk has bigger GDP growth than E.pk.

But despite all the destruction in 1971 Bangladesh started outperformed Pakistan in average GDP growth from 1990 in clear way which we can see from the curve which never would be possible under East Pakistan era. Now see Bangladesh's economic growth is going up but for Pakistan it is going down!!! As population growth rate is coming down in recent time Bangladesh is goign to witness more high average per capita GDP growth rate then earlier times but the case for Pakistan is reverse for dual reason, 1st low GDP growth rate and 2nd higher population growth rate.

#Ok we will see it in future, when BD will cross Pk in future. ha ha.. but I was mainly talking about the BD at pk era and BD in last 30 years time frame, not when BD will transcend Pk.

How ever as Bangladeshi Taka gained strength against USD as of 2012 per capita GDP should be higher then 747.

#Yes, that updated data has used here too as World bank as updated their data.

For information Bangladesh is still using backdated 1995 year as the base for calculating GDP which does not count a big portion of the GDP. Bangladesh is going to witness at least 15-20% GDP rise if it has been rebased. In 2000 when it was rebased from 1985 to 1995 GDP witnessed close to 30% GDP growth.

With rebase and 15% GDP growth from 1976 to 2012 Bangladesh's average per capita GDP growth rate will be 5.48% but the present 4.82% growth with 1995 base is not also bad for this long 36 years.

#Haha, last time your Finance minister did not rebase, dont know why. But one day modern BD era will certainly cross the 4.52% [BD at PK-era] average rate, but in future. Why so fuss? My today's claim is based on upto 2012 time frame, I mean how much average rate BD has got in last 30 years compare to pk era. Understand? I never said that BD will not cross the 4.52% [BD at PK-era] average rate ever.


#PS: In post#71, there is a little mistake, I put the value of 1960 in 1961, as in the last year's data by world bank 1960 was not available. But no problem, a new calculation is provided here in this post.

 

[Skies]

@CaPtAiN_pLaNeT:

There is no question that BD is so poor now because of the former Pakistan era.

As the decades pass, then if things continue like they have for the last 2 decades, BD will catch and then increase it's lead in GDP/capita over Pakistan.

BD is increasing GDP/capita by 5% a year while Pakistan achieved around 3% a year in the 1960s and the 1980s - it's best decades since independence. Those two decades were unique as in the 1960s, Pakistan was able to take billions from Bangladesh in fiscal transfers and in the 1980s the US supplied billions of dollars in aid due to the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

I hate to say this but Pakistan has yet to prove in 65 years of independence that it an grow relatively fast without external resources.

1. Another awami delusion that BD is still poor because of war/w.pk.

2. BD's avg. GDP per capita is 4.26% for last 30 years, 2012-1982 , where you got 5%?

3. And who paid the costs of war by pk in afghan in 80s, you?

 

[UKBengali]

1. Another awami delusion that BD is still poor because of war/w.pk.

2. And who paid the costs of war by pk in afghan in 80s, you?

Do not make assumptions about what I am trying to say.

Yes, the war did not help matters by destroying much infrastructure but the main issue is that over the course of the preceding 24 years, BD's fiscal revenues were used to prop-up Pakistan.

BD missed a golden period in the 1950s and 1960s to be able to use it's fiscal revenues from jute to develop itself..

 

[Saiful Islam]

Forget GDP for moment and look around you in Bangladesh it's still one of the poorest countries in South Asia. The only places you'll find middle income families is in Dhaka in areas like Gulshan, Dhanmondhi, Mirpur and even then you look around everyones poor. We can bash Pakistan/India, although I know India has certain parts worse than Sub Saharan poverty the cities but regardless. We need to stop dwelling over GDP because the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer.

Some of you brothers may have not experience much of rural life in Bangladesh but if you go places like Sylhet then you'll see that even some middle class families have no electricity. Problem with Bangladeshis is that we make our selves believe things which we know very well aren't true! I know some Pakistani brothers here in the UK that that live like kings, yet when I go back home I got no electricity routed to my house, using kerosene lamps, basically Bangladesh is still a sh-thole regardless of GDP.

 

[CaPtAiN_pLaNeT]

@CaPtAiN_pLaNeT



#Prove that I wrote about average GDP growth rate, not the average per capita gdp growth rate, show me which post, which line, otherwise you are a lair.



#To calculate GDP per capita, number of population is used, not population growth rate, why showing that, makes no sense. Anyway.



#We are talking about average growth rate, not total growth rate like 60%. But where is your data of 60% and 1950, anyway?

Okay new calculation again, for sake of you, Captain,

This calculation is based on the current US dollar value of 2012 which is subjected to change from year to year.

Obtained from: http://api.worldbank.org/datafiles/NY.GDP.PCAP.CD_Indicator_MetaData_en_EXCEL.xls

Now here,
I have taken the last 10 [1970-1960] years BD at PK-era and the last 30 [2012-1982] years in the modern BD-era.

Yes, 10 years vs. 30 years, and the comparison makes more sense as I have taken the data of modern BD era [no war effect], and the last 10 years of Pk era assuming that the more discrimination was happened in 60s which leaded to the six points, rather than the 50s.

Calculation:

Equation: LN (End Year/First year)*(1/Number of years)*100

Here:

End year GDP per capita in 1970 = 135.61
First year GDP per capita in 1960 = 86.29
Number of years = 1970-1960 = 10
Result = 4.52% [BD at PK-era]

Calculation:

Equation: LN (End Year/First year)*(1/Number of years)*100

Here:

End year GDP per capita in 2012 = 747.33
First year GDP per capita in 1982 = 207.75
Number of years = 2012-1982 = 30
Result = 4.26% [BD at BD-era]


Comment: 4.52% > 4.26%, so sill I can see that the BD at PK-era had higher rate than the last 30 years from 1982-2012. And it indicates that the talking about the discrimination was exaggerated.





#Yes, this is the matter, generally, current US dollar value is used to compare country to country, as we see in the the newspapers or websites. This current US dollar value takes into account of local currency's value of appreciation and depreciation of the all the past years to present years. It makes more sense to think that what improvement BD has done based on the capital BD got from E.pk after the war comparing to the Pk-era, and that change can be easily understood if current US dollar value is used, not local currency. Therefore, current US dollar value using is more justified here, and I also did that.



#We are comparing the BD at pk-era with BD at modern BD-era. Anyway, that 5 times negative rate is obtained due to using PK and BD's local currencies' current value, but I am here using only the single international currency which is the Current US value, and now there are only two little negative growths in 1964 and 1968 instead of five shown in the picture below.

pic:

Plus, W.pk was the investor and profit taker in E.pk, like all Jute industries were established by W.pk, so naturally W.pk has bigger GDP growth than E.pk.



#Ok we will see it in future, when BD will cross Pk in future. ha ha.. but I was mainly talking about the BD at pk era and BD in last 30 years time frame, not when BD will transcend Pk.



#Yes, that updated data has used here too as World bank as updated their data.



#Haha, last time your Finance minister did not rebase, dont know why. But one day modern BD era will certainly cross the 4.52% [BD at PK-era] average rate, but in future. Why so fuss? My today's claim is based on upto 2012 time frame, I mean how much average rate BD has got in last 30 years compare to pk era. Understand? I never said that BD will not cross the 4.52% [BD at PK-era] average rate ever.


#PS: In post#71, there is a little mistake, I put the value of 1960 in 1961, as in the last year's data by world bank 1960 was not available. But no problem, a new calculation is provided here in this post.

Again another vague attempt of doing Pakistani dalali!!!

1st thing that I have shown even counting war effect from 1972-2012 in long 40 year time frame year on year Bangladesh has achieved 5.33% GDP per capita growth that is really impressive.

Where as in Pakistan period no such growth rate was achieved.

Just from the birth time measuring of per capita GDP growth is much more authentic then any selective year.

Secondly you measured from 1982 saying that is the modern era of Bangladesh infact it was not as GDP was sliding after the death of Ziaur Rahman like that of 1975. That is why 1982 can not also be a reference point like that of 1975. But from 1983 it started to rise again.

From 1983 to present time average per capita GDP growth rate achieved 4.66% average per capita GDP growth and this is also higher then Pakistan era GDP growth.

Real modern era of Bangladesh started after democratic government came to power and that is after 1991. You can say last 20 year is the modern era of Bangladesh and from 1992-2012 Bangladesh has achieved 4.8% average per capita GDP growth. This is also higher then the Pakistan era.

In addition to that I would also like to point out that Bangladesh's average per capita GDP is going more upwards. This wont never possible under Pakistani rule.

Now lets look how Pakistan has performed in this time frame. Pakistan also has seen a slide in GDP in 1982 so I have taken the 1983 as the reference year. From 1983-2012 Pakistan has achieved an average 4.57% per capita GDP growth which is lower then Bangladesh's 4.66% average per capita GDP growth rate.

Bottom line Bangladesh has performed way better then what it performed during Pakistan era despite witnessing higher average population growth from 1972-2012 then Pakistan era period of 1961-1969.

[What you said about GDP and population clearly indicates that you have no knowledge about economics. Suppose if the population growth rate is 1.5% then if the country had 100 million population it will be 101.5 million after 1 year but if it has a population growth rate of 2% it will see 102 million population after a year. Even if the country witness 10% GDP growth in the second case per capita GDP will be less.]

Bangladesh could be in a much better position without Pakistan. It cost Bangladesh at least to lag behind by 20 years. If the current trend continues it will overtake Pakistan in terms of per capita GDP also soon like all other indicators.

 

[Skies]

Again another vague attempt of doing Pakistani dalali!!!

# Another personal attack, in which you are the best indeed, without showing the proof I solicited.

1st thing that I have shown even counting war effect from 1972-2012 in long 40 year time frame year on year Bangladesh has achieved 5.33% GDP per capita growth that is really impressive.

# This higher rate is because of you are using the value of current BDT, but current US $ is used in international comparison, not BDT. Plus, before war it was Ruppee, and now it's BDT, so using the value of BDT in comparison to Rupee's value is invalid. As I said earlier, current US dollar value takes into account of local currency's value of appreciation and depreciation of the all the past years to present years. It makes more sense to think that, what improvement BD has done based on the capital BD got from E.pk [also based on the capital from 1960] after the war comparing to the Pk-era; and that change can be easily understood if current US dollar value is used to evaluate the value of capital BD got from E.pk through the transformation of Rupee to Taka, but not local currency value. So using single current US $ is more justified.

Just from the birth time measuring of per capita GDP growth is much more authentic then any selective year.

# Yes, measuring from 1950 could show the more authentic result, but I assume that more corruption was occurred in 1960s that lead to ultimate separation.

From 1983 to present time average per capita GDP growth rate achieved 4.66% average per capita GDP growth and this is also higher then Pakistan era GDP growth.

Real modern era of Bangladesh started after democratic government came to power and that is after 1991. You can say last 20 year is the modern era of Bangladesh and from 1992-2012 Bangladesh has achieved 4.8% average per capita GDP growth. This is also higher then the Pakistan era.

# First you were saying to remove the war effect, and 1975, So I remover upto 1981 according to you. So do you even want me to compare using the last 10 or 5 years of BD?! I told you that one day [may be after 5-7 years] BD will certainly exceed that rate of pk-era, but my argument here on the last 30 years time frame.

Now lets look how Pakistan has performed in this time frame. Pakistan also has seen a slide in GDP in 1982 so I have taken the 1983 as the reference year. From 1983-2012 Pakistan has achieved an average 4.57% per capita GDP growth which is lower then Bangladesh's 4.66% average per capita GDP growth rate.

# Pk is in war since 2001, excluding the last 12 years of war of terrorism will show different rate, but here this comparison is between pre-bd and post-bd, not BD vs PK.

Bottom line Bangladesh has performed way better then what it performed during Pakistan era despite witnessing higher average population growth from 1972-2012 then Pakistan era period of 1961-1969.

# can not be said certainly that BD has performed very well compared to BD at pk-era after seeing the 4.52% > 4.26%.

[What you said about GDP and population clearly indicates that you have no knowledge about economics. Suppose if the population growth rate is 1.5% then if the country had 100 million population it will be 101.5 million after 1 year but if it has a population growth rate of 2% it will see 102 million population after a year. Even if the country witness 10% GDP growth in the second case per capita GDP will be less.]

# Again you are bringing the population growth rate, not the population number which is used to calculate the GDP per capita [GDP divided by population number]. You are saying that even if the country witness 10% GDP growth in the second case per capita GDP will be less, but you are ignoring that population growth can both proportionally or inversely affect the GDP per capita. Not negative always. So, now it seems you do not have enough knowledge on economics. Now look at the study finding below:

[[[[[

The results support a positive (negative) and statistically significant relationship between population growth and per capita income for developed (developing) countries. Population growth could be beneficial or detrimental to per capita income depending on whether a country is developed or still developing. Hence, developing countries can expect to make gains in income dramatically by limiting population growth and therefore family planning programs can be justified; in contrast to developed countries which can follow policy actions to increase population growth rates in order to increase income.

A study link: https://iaes.confex.com/iaes/Boston68/techprogram/P3486.HTM


]]]]]

Bangladesh could be in a much better position without Pakistan. It cost Bangladesh at least to lag behind by 20 years. If the current trend continues it will overtake Pakistan in terms of per capita GDP also soon like all other indicators.

# Many basic infrastructure were built at Pk-era, like dam, power plants, fertilizer plants, paper mills, jute mills, official colonies, some prominent govt universities, medicals, sea ports, air ports, oil refineries, and even building Nuke plant at Rupgong was thought, so such 20 lagging claim needs more comprehensive study, not a plain claim.