BD-PAK relations in Hasina's Regime

[TopCat]

Tell me would you be willing to put up those BDs (almost all of whom you guys consider to be your freedom fighters and heroes) up for trial on our claims of mass murder against West Pakistani people and personnel? If your answer is yes (there is plenty of proof available on the excesses committed against West Pakistanis too),

My answer is yes, if it were unarmed civilian.. But not for personnel.
We are not seeking justice for any combat casualties(Killing freedom fighter).. It was a war and both parties suppose to bear the casualties...
The tribunal will look into all the cases, even if you had one you need to come forward...

My simple quesion to you.. If you knew that a person raped a 13 years old girl to death in 1971, will you go ahead with a marriage proposal for you sister with that person???
The tribunal will at least unearth the true faces of those criminals, and thats good for Pakistan as well..

Thanks

 

[blain2]

My answer is yes, if it were unarmed civilian.. But not for personnel.
We are not seeking justice for any combat casualties(Killing freedom fighter).. It was a war and both parties suppose to bear the casualties...
The tribunal will look into all the cases, even if you had one you need to come forward...

Thanks

While there was no dearth of excesses against civilians but why not military personnel? Were the personnel not subject to Geneva convention upon their capture? Why would their killings be out of the scope of the tribunal's responsibilities?

The slope is a slippery one my friend.

 

[idune]

Pakistan and Bangladesh people to people relation will be excellent as it is. As long (which will be always) as Hasina govt take its policy dictate from indian, inter govt relation between Bangladesh and Pakistan will be less than what it was (for lack of a better term). Face it Awami league at helm, independence of Bangladesh foreign policy will further loose its independence. It was and is indian goal to steer Bangladesh from forging any deep relation with Pakistan, China or any other states for that matter. And now it will be indians who will be influence these agenda.

But there are still scopes for Pakistan and Bangladesh enhance trade and defense relation. One very important aspect of bilateral trade was to setup direct shipping line. That did not happen because of lack of volume of trade. Perhaps, Pakistan and Bangladesh can set up shipping and trade incorporating Dubai.

Like Chittagong <->Karachi<->Dubai. Perhaps that will produce expected volume and boost long over due trade volume.

 

[BanglaBhoot]

There are many people who should be brought to justice if we are strictly discussing law and there is some confusion whether war crimes trials can be brought at all. If we are talking about war crimes then many Mukti Bahini and Mujib Bahini's committed war crimes. We all remember the picture of Kader Siddique bayoneting two Pakistani soldiers in front of a crowd. Many of the Mujib Bahini actions were in the form of assassination operations on behalf of RAW against left wing elements opposed to India and had nothing to do with the war with Pakistan. Also we face the legal question of the tripartite agreement of 1974 which sent 195 of the war criminals to Pakistan. Without the original perpetrators how do you bring actions against accomplices etc.

If we really want to address the past then should not the Rakkhi Bahini be also brought to trials for the offenses under Mujib.

This thing can go on forever and would be a mistake for Hasina to thing that she if opens this pandoras box everything will stay in the box.

As for Pak-BD relations they are bound to go down hill under this government. I remember the removal of the Pak diplomat for his comments concerning the 1971 war but has any Indian diplomat been sent packing. An Indian diplomat in the early 1980's actually slapped a DGFI officer but nothing happened. This is surely a disgrace. I believe it would be a mistake to have bad relations with Pakistan because it would allow Indian to dominate us and the region which is not good at all. India does not have the interests in mind and we should never forget that.

 

[Al-zakir]

Tripartite Agreement Between India, Bangladesh And Pakistan For Normalisation Of Relations In The Sub-Continent, 1974

Friday January 16 2009 20:36:29 PM BDT

1. On July 2, 1972, the President of Pakistan and the Prime Minister of India signed an historic agreement at Simla under which they resolved that the two countries put to an end the conflict and confrontation that has hitherto marred their relations and work for the promotion of a friendly and harmonious relationship and the establishment of a durable peace in the sub-continent. The Agreement also provided for the settlement of "their difference by peaceful means by bilateral negotiations or by any other peaceful means mutually agreed upon.

2. Bangladesh welcomed the Simla Agreement. The Prime Minister of Bangladesh strongly supported its objective of reconciliation, good neighborliness' and establishment of durable peace in the sub-continent.

3. The humanitarian problem arising in the wake of the tragic events of 1971 constituted a major obstacle in the way of reconciliation and normalization among the countries of the sub-continent. In the absence of reconciliation, it was not possible to have tripartite talks to settle the humanitarian problems, as Bangladesh could not participate in such meeting on the basis of sovereign equality.

4. On April 17, 1973, India and Bangladesh took a major step forward to break the deadlock on the humanitarian issues by setting aside the political problems of recognition. In a Declaration issued on the date they said that they "are resolved to continue their efforts to reduce tension, promote friendly and harmonious relationship in the sub-continent and work together towards the establishment of a durable peace ". Inspired by the vision and "in the larger interest of reconciliation, peace and stability in the sub-continent" they jointly proposed that the problem of the detained and stranded persons should be resolved on humanitarian considerations through simultaneous repatriation of all such persons except those Pakistani prisoners of war who might be required by the Government of Bangladesh for trial on certain charges.

5. Following the Declaration there were a series of talks between India and Bangladesh and India and Pakistan. These talks resulted in an agreement at Delhi on August 28, 1973 between India and Pakistan with the concurrence of Bangladesh, which provided for a solution of the outstanding humanitarian problems.

6. In pursuance of the Agreement, the process of three-way repatriation commenced on September 19, 1973. So far nearly 300,000 persons have been repatriated which has generated an atmosphere of reconciliation and paved the way for normalization of relations in the sub-continent.

7. In February 1974, recognition took place thus facilitating the participation of Bangladesh in the tripartite meeting envisaged in the Delhi Agreement, on the basis of sovereign equality. Accordingly His Excellency Dr.Kamal Hossain, Foreign Minster of the Government of Bangladesh, His Excellency Sardar Swaran Singh, Minister of External Affairs, Government of India and His Excellency Mr.Aziz Ahmed, the Minister of State for Defense and Foreign Affairs of the Government of Pakistan met in New Delhi from April 5 to April 9, 1974 and discussed the various issues mentioned in the Delhi Agreement in particular the question of the 195 prisoners of war and the completion of the three-way process of repatriation involving Bangalees in Pakistan, Pakistanis in Bangladesh and Pakistani prisoners of war in India.

8. The Ministries reviewed the progress of the three-way repatriation under the Delhi Agreement of August 28, 1973. They were gratified that such a large number of persons detained or stranded in the three countries had since reached their destinations.

9. The Ministers also considered steps that needed to be taken in order expeditiously to bring the process of the three-way repatriation to a satisfactory conclusion.

10. The Indian side stated that the remaining Pakistani prisoners of war and civilians internees in India to be repatriated under the Delhi Agreement, numbering approximately 6,500, would be repatriated at the usual pace of rain on alternate days and the likely short-fall [text illegible] ..to April 10, 1974 on account of Kumb Mela, would be made up by running additional trains after April 19. It was thus hoped that the repatriation of prisoners of war would be completed by the end of April 1974.

11. The Pakistani side stated that the repatriation of Bangladesh nationals from Pakistan was approaching completion. The remaining Bangladesh nationals in Pakistan would also repatriated without let or hindrance.

12. In respect of non-Bangalees in Bangladesh, the Pakistan side stated that the Government of Pakistan had already issued clearances for movement to Pakistan in favor of those non-Bangalees who were either domiciled in former West Pakistan, were employees of the Central Government and their families or were members of the divided families, irrespective of their original domicile. The issuance of the clearance to 25,000 persons who constitute hardship cases was also in progress. The Pakistan side reiterated that all those who fall under the first three categorize would be received by Pakistan without any limits to numbers. In respect of persons whose applications had been rejected, the Government of Pakistan would upon request, provide reasons why any particular case was rejected. Any aggrieved applicant could, at any time, seek a review of his application provided he was able to supply new facts or further information to the Government of Pakistan in support of his contention that he qualified in one or other of the three categories. The claims of such persons would not be time-barred. In the event of the decision of the review of a case being adverse, the Government of Pakistan and Bangladesh might seek to resolve it by mutual consultation.

13. The question of 195 Pakistani prisoners of war was discussed by the three Ministers, in the context of the earnest desire of the Governments for reconciliation, peace and friendship in the sub-continent. The Foreign Minister of Bangladesh stated that the excesses and manifold crimes committed by these prisoners of war constituted according to the relevant provisions of the U.N General Assembly Resolutions and International Law, war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide, and that there was universal consensus that persons charged with such crimes as the 195 Pakistani prisoners of war should be held to account and subjected to the dues process of Law. The Minister of State for Defense and Foreign Affairs of the Government of Pakistan said that his Government condemned and deeply regretted any crimes that may have been committed.

14. In this connection the three Ministers noted that the matter should be viewed in the context of the determination of the three countries to continue resolutely to work for reconciliation. The Minister further noted that following recognition, the Prime Minister of Pakistan declared that he would visit Bangladesh in response to the invitation of the Prime Minister of Bangladesh and appeal to the people of Bangladesh, to forgive and forget the mistakes of the past. Similarly, the Prime Minister of Bangladesh had declared with regard to the atrocities and destruction committed in Bangladesh in 1971 that he wanted the people to forget the past and to make a fresh start,stating that the people of Bangladesh knew how to forgive.

15. In the light of the foregoing and, in particular, having regard to the appeal of the Prime Minister of Pakistan to the people of Bangladesh to forgive and forget the mistakes of the past, the Foreign Minister of Bangladesh stated that the Government of Bangladesh has decided not to proceed with the trials as an act of clemency. It was agreed that the 195 prisoners of war may be repatriated to Pakistan along with the other prisoners of war now in process of repatriation under the Delhi Agreement.

16. The Minister expressed their convictions that the above agreements provide a firm basis for the resolution of the humanitarian problems arising out of the conflict of 1971. They reaffirmed the vital stake of seven hundred million people of the three countries have in peace and progress and reiterated the resolve of their Governments to work for the promotion of normalization of relations and the establishment of durable peace in the sub-continent.

Signed in New Delhi on April 9, 1974 in three original, each of which is equally authentic.

Sd/-

Dr.Kamal Hossain, Foreign Minster of the Government of Bangladesh,

Sd/-

Sardar Swaran Singh, Minister of External Affairs, Government of India

Sd/-

Mr.Aziz Ahmed, the Minister of State for Defense and Foreign Affairs of the Government of Pakistan


Yahoo! Groups

 

[rajk20002002]

Whether we talk of BD-Pak relations, China-Pak relations or any other relations, India some how always gets into picture. That means whether one likes or not, India is also an important variable in these equations. No such relations can be stabilized without taking into consideration the Indian concerns. We have no interests in the internal affairs of any neighbour, but we have to certainly safeguard our interests. As I can see, slowly but steadily China and India are improving their relations to a mature level. Business between both the countries has increaded to almost $$60.00 billion per year. Both counties understand fairly well how other neighbors tend to play between them. Approach to good relations between any two countries in the region has to keeping in mind all the regional concerns.

RK

 

[idune]

Whether we talk of BD-Pak relations, China-Pak relations or any other relations, India some how always gets into picture. That means whether one likes or not, India is also an important variable in these equations. No such relations can be stabilized without taking into consideration the Indian concerns.
RK

No one invite india but india because of its hegemonic ambition and insecurity interfere in neighbors internal politics and policy. So self professing justification and place for india only reflects indian hegemonic agenda.

We have no interests in the internal affairs of any neighbour, but we have to certainly safeguard our interests.

Thats typical hypocratic stand of indians. First part of that statement is blatant lie and second part is sugar coated justification for interferance in internal affairs of neighbors.

As I can see, slowly but steadily China and India are improving their relations to a mature level.

That's where hypocracy is more vivid; india would pursue its economic interest with China but would subotage neighbors attems to have the same with China. There are plenty of examples in Bangladesh, Pakistan, Nepal and else where to support that hypocracy. Oh indian reap benefit of economic relation with China but also interfere in Chinese internal affairs by sheltering Dalai Lama and would help instigating unreast by Dalai Lama and his gang.

 

[rajk20002002]

No one invite india but india because of its hegemonic ambition and insecurity interfere in neighbors internal politics and policy. So self professing justification and place for india only reflects only indian hegemonic agenda.



Thats typical hypocratic stand of indians. First part of that statement is blatant lie and second part is sugar coated justification for interferance in internal affairs of neighbors.




That's where hypocracy is more vivid; india would pursue its economic interest with China but would subotage neighbors attems to have the same with China. There are plenty of examples in Bangladesh, Pakistan, Nepal and else where to support that hypocracy. Oh indian reap benefit of economic relation with China but also interfere in Chinese internal affairs by sheltering Dalai Lama and by helping and instigating unreast casued by Dalai Lama and his gang.

It hardly maters how you interpret. No bilateral relations will work without addressing the regional concerns. If you don't understand this simple fact, then better take some lessons in international relations. Personal emotions don't goo far in international diplomacy.

RK

 

[Al-zakir]

Lets not cleverly divert this tread into some other nonsense issue with India. Frankly I am getting tired of this garbage. Let us discuss BD-Pak relations under Hasina. Stick to the topic for once...........

 

[rajk20002002]

Lets not cleverly divert this tread into some other nonsense issue with India. Frankly I am getting tired of this garbage. Let us discuss BD-Pak relations under Hasina. Stick to the topic for once...........

We have no problem till discussions are without any mention of India or any Indian agency. We respond only when any reference is made to India or any Indian agency. .... What do u expect from us when someone talks of positioning missiles in BD directed towards us. Some one talks of RAW and slaping some office without any refernce to his claims. Keep the discussions bilateral and we won't bother at all what all you guys talk.

RK

 

[Al-zakir]

We have no problem till discussions are without any mention of India or any Indian agency. We respond only when any reference is made to India or any Indian agency. .... What do u expect from us when someone talks of positioning missiles in BD directed towards us. Some one talks of RAW and slaping some office without any refernce to his claims. Keep the discussions bilateral and we won't bother at all what all you guys talk.

RK

Understandable. Thank you. I appreciate it..........

 

[IceCold]

To BD people, you guys have voted for Hasina i mean majority of you as a result of which she comes to power. If your concerns about BD-PAK relations were so point of concern, you would have given it a thought before giving vote to Hasina. Now that you have, it is pretty evident that she is a pro-Indian and will definitely carry the Indian stance as Pak-BD relations are concerned but let me be very clear, 1971 hurts us even to this day, while BD got Independence, another country lost its territory so if BD wants to open this issue again, you will gain nothing but a tough response from Pakistan. We have already rejected such claims and if made again will be rejected again and with a tougher stance towards BD. Hope you guys understand.

 

[BanglaBhoot]

To BD people, you guys have voted for Hasina i mean majority of you as a result of which she comes to power. If your concerns about BD-PAK relations were so point of concern, you would have given it a thought before giving vote to Hasina.

The people of BD did not vote for AL because of some new found love for that party. Hasina promised many things and the people voted for her on this ground. There was also voter manipulation by the CEC and COAS to gaurantee a AL victory. I had urged the BNP not to participate in these elections for the reasons stated above or at least to demand the resignation of the CEC before participation but the Pakistan High Commission gave the opposite advice and look what happened.

Now that you have, it is pretty evident that she is a pro-Indian and will definitely carry the Indian stance as Pak-BD relations are concerned

There is no doubt that the AL will take a pro-Indian stance but Pakistan is also responsible for this situation by giving wrong advice to the BNP.

but let me be very clear, 1971 hurts us even to this day, while BD got Independence, another country lost its territory so if BD wants to open this issue again, you will gain nothing but a tough response from Pakistan. We have already rejected such claims and if made again will be rejected again and with a tougher stance towards BD. Hope you guys understand.

It is this same attitude that lost you this territory. It is for this reason that Pakistan always loses to India in nearly all areas. What Pakistan should be doing is to foster better relations with the post-1971 generation in BD. Similarly they should better project their views through the media and newspapers. Pakistan and also the BNP/Jamaat have been very weak in this. In terms of information warfare Pakistan fares particularly badly compared to India. The BNP has been similarly weak in propaganda and suffered for this in the elections. I have noticed that Pakistan relies too much on the older generation (who were opposed to independence) to convey their message in BD. This is a wrong policy and such people should be discarded.

That BNP/Jamaat is facing this present debacle is partly the fault of Pakistan for proffering wrong advice and also not being able to provide media and information support. Although I am a keen supporter for better Pak-BD relations I think that there should be better planning, coordination and thought.

 

[IceCold]

The people of BD did not vote for AL because of some new found love for that party. Hasina promised many things and the people voted for her on this ground. There was also voter manipulation by the CEC and COAS to gaurantee a AL victory. I had urged the BNP not to participate in these elections for the reasons stated above or at least to demand the resignation of the CEC before participation but the Pakistan High Commission gave the opposite advice and look what happened.



There is no doubt that the AL will take a pro-Indian stance but Pakistan is also responsible for this situation by giving wrong advice to the BNP.



It is this same attitude that lost you this territory. It is for this reason that Pakistan always loses to India in nearly all areas. What Pakistan should be doing is to foster better relations with the post-1971 generation in BD. Similarly they should better project their views through the media and newspapers. Pakistan and also the BNP/Jamaat have been very weak in this. In terms of information warfare Pakistan fares particularly badly compared to India. The BNP has been similarly weak in propaganda and suffered for this in the elections. I have noticed that Pakistan relies too much on the older generation (who were opposed to independence) to convey their message in BD. This is a wrong policy and such people should be discarded.

That BNP/Jamaat is facing this present debacle is partly the fault of Pakistan for proffering wrong advice and also not being able to provide media and information support. Although I am a keen supporter for better Pak-BD relations I think that there should be better planning, coordination and thought.

While you have found this new love for AL or not, it is not for me to judge, i am only concerned about the mere fact about this regime's attitude towards Pakistan and as a result of which our relationships could severely be damaged, precisely what India wants and you on the other hand would have to face even more Indian involvement in internal matters of BD then it was ever before.
As for the attitude, no attitude was not a fault rather people that we thought were our own, however i wont go into details for obvious reasons, bad things happened and we do need to move on.
Also Pakistan does not loose to India in everything, in case you didn't notice we have relatively out maneuvered Indians in the recent Mumbai acts. Also apart from 71, tell me when did we loose to Indians?

 

[TopCat]

While there was no dearth of excesses against civilians but why not military personnel? Were the personnel not subject to Geneva convention upon their capture? Why would their killings be out of the scope of the tribunal's responsibilities?

The slope is a slippery one my friend.

In your case YES, if that violates geneva convention.. None should be harmed after captured...