Battles of 1971

[eastwatch]

Even 1 innocent death is regrettable and not allowed to go easily, but i have seen lot of hatred in Bangladeshi eyes and nearly everyone quotes these millions figures, all i need is a govt researched approx figure so that we should know how many in reality died, as if the millions figure proves to be a lie, then why it is still quoted and also it shows the real intent of those who had quoted those figures initially as they used this figure of their own people killed for exploitation.

This is what the children are taught in BD. A person who refuses to accept this 3 million figure will be rediculed as collaborator. But, I believe that the historical truths must be set in their genuine perspectives.

 

[toxic_pus]

1. Recognize the fact that mass killings were committed by the EPR, EBR and Muki bahini before the army action.

Non-Bengalis were indeed killed, but only as reaction to the atrocities committed by the Pakistani army. Your allegation is akin to accusing a rape victim of ‘hurting’ her rapist in the process of defending herself.

‘Revolution is not a dinner party, nor an essay, nor a painting, nor a piece of embroidery; it cannot be advanced softly, gradually, carefully, considerately, respectfully, politely, plainly, and modestly. A revolution is an insurrection, an act of violence by which one class overthrows another.’ – Mao.

2. Provide the proof for 3 million killings.

You forgot to tell us, what would constitute ‘proof’ in your book. In fact you have ended up doing exactly what you have accused people of – that of beating about the bush. Not only that, to provide your ‘proof’ you have simply distorted history – even the ones which are recorded by neutral parties – and have quoted dubious research works to support your claim.

Initial thoughts:

While the killings were unfortunate but blaming it purely on the Pakistan Army alone is very one-sided. Pakistan Army in any case was a very late entrant in the drama. By the time they took action, massive number of West Pakistani soldiers, their families, civilians and non Bengalis were already killed by Indian created and trained Mukti Bahini, deserters form the East Pakistan Rifles and the East Bengal Regiment. The killings even continued months after surrender of Pakistan Army.

Horsesh!t. That’s what it is.

Far from being a ‘late entrant’ – PA was the reason why things happened the way it happened. On March 1st, 1971, US Memorandum report to Kissinger notes:

‘A general atmosphere of tension prevails throughout Dacca, and numerous spontaneous processions and demonstrations calling for the independence of East Pakistan are reported to be underway. So far violence reportedly has been limited, but the potential for major destructive outbursts would seem to be great, especially if the West Pakistani-controlled provincial regime takes any heavy-handed actions against the demonstrators.’

On March 4th, 1971 Memorandum report to Kissinger notes:

‘At least one Pakistani air force C–130 has been seen flying into Dacca and there are recurrent reports of forces being flown into Dacca via the Pakistani commercial airline and of the movement of troops from the West via ship. These reports can not be confirmed but it is known that there is pressure from some elements in the military to make a quick repressive strike against the East Pakistani leaders in hopes of cowing them and the rest of the province.[The contingency paper says intervention is “very unlikely”. This seems less and less true. CIA working level judges that the East would respond with further violence rather than surrender.] ’

At that point, PA had around 20,000 troops of which, 15,000 alone were deployed in Dacca – the initial killing fields.

On 13th March, 1971, the Memorandum report to Kissinger notes:

‘An immediate showdown between East and West Pakistan has been averted for the time being. […] There is also evidence that the military forces in the East Wing are being gradually strengthened by troops being airlifted through Ceylon.

[…]

Yahya could decide not to take Rahman’s challenge lying down and to retaliate, perhaps to the extent of arresting Rahman and the other leaders, and attempting to clamp a military lid on East Pakistan. There are two basic problems here: (1) Rahman has embarked on a Gandhian-type non-violent non-cooperation campaign which makes it harder to justify repression; and (2) the West Pakistanis lack the military capacity to put down a full scale revolt over a long period.

A static waiting game could develop with neither the army nor the civilians prepared to take a bold initiative to break the deadlock and each hoping the other will break first. This is where we are now and Rahman would probably prefer to continue like this for a while longer so that he can gradually take de facto control of East Pakistan without forcing a showdown.’

On 15th March, the US assessment was:

‘If Yahya, or others in the military, decide to resist Mujib’s action by force, East Pakistan will be engulfed in a struggle between the military and the Bengali nationalists, the outcome of which can only be eventual independence of Bengal and the breaking of all ties with West Pakistan—unless, as seems unlikely in the long run, the army can successfully contain a rebellion. Mujib’s statement called on Bengalis to resist “by all possible means” any force used against them.’

It is pretty clear that during March, right upto the infamous crackdown, the situation in Bangladesh was nowhere near as violent as ‘mass killings’ of non-Bengalis would indicate. In fact there was a ‘deadlock’ between the military and the civilians. Even US was doubtful, if any severe crackdown could be justified by PA, given the status quo. Your allegation that by 25th March, ‘massive number of West Pakistani soldiers, their families, civilians and non Bengalis were already killed’ just doesn't fly. It is nothing but a self-serving delusional rant. Besides, there are two gross factual errors.

a) The mass defection had taken place only after the crackdown, not before and b) Indian trained Mukti Bahinis entered East Pakistan for the first time, only during the last week of April, 1971. So they couldn’t have possibly taken part in any sort of ‘killings’ of non-Bengalis, before the crack down. The killings didn’t continue even after surrender, because all the prisoners, 90,000 in total, were in Indian custody and Mukti Bahinis were disarmed, accept for some pockets in the rural areas.

A word or two (or three) about Hamoodur Rahman Commission (HRC).

1. No one has seen the original HRC. What is available on the net is what GoP released as supplementary report. No one knows for sure if the contents on that supplementary report actually correspond with the original report. Hence any conclusion of the report, which goes against common and/or researched knowledge and wisdom, would have to be taken with a pinch of salt.

2. HRC was formed to investigate into the failure of PA and to find the reason behind the break up of Pak and not to investigate into the number of deaths.

3. The supplementary HRC report claims that only 213 witnesses were examined to arrive at its conclusion. HRC arrived at that outrageously ridiculous number of deaths on the basis of this even outrageously little witness. It is a joke, by any standard.

Quoting HRC figures of death toll, as something etched in stone, is intellectual bankruptcy.

 

[eastwatch]

LETTERS OF 1971
A 7th letter.

This letter was written on 23 May, 1971 by a 16 year old and class X student of Chittagong City Collegiate School. Amanullah Chowdhury Faruque became a Shaheed in the 1971 war of independence. He was killed in a battle at the embankment south of Bamoni Bazaar of Kompaniganj Thana in Noakhali district. It is a long letter to his father. I will try not to shorten it.

Respected Abbajan,

I am leaving today, but I do not know exactly where. I can say only that I am going to a place where a strong-minded and heroic freedom-seeking son should go. Bengal has been infested with the barbaric blood-thirsty Pakistani troops who are committing unimaginable torture and killings. Even after knowing all these acts I have sinned by living a luxurious life for the last one month and twenty five days. In order to relieve myself of this sin, I have started my journey, so that all the Bangalis can forgive my sins.

I understand that my decision may sadden you. The way you have raised me, the way I have always displeased you and broke your peace of mind, but you have always forgiven that unruly son of yours. You did so only because of your affection towards me as I am your son.

Father, will it sadden you if your eldest son Faruque goes to war and die in a battle while fighting against the Pakistani oppressors? Father, you should not sadden yourself because even if I die fighting against the aggressors, then you will become the father of a Shaheed. And if I come back alive, you will become the father of a Ghazi. In both cases, I will become your pride. If I am a Shaheed, then it will bring you more pride. You will become the father of a warrior hero. Both Ghazi and Shaheed are equal.

I must say you something. I was going to sit for my matric exam. I have so many expectations and dreams that I will go to College, and after that to a University. I wanted to be a man of fame.

You have also been hoping for and dreaming for the same. But, in a single blow of wind every dream of ours has been shattered. But, who are responsible for this? You know them, all the people know of them. There is a saying in Engliash, "Mother and motherland are superior to heaven."

I am going to rescue my motherland from the grasp of the enemies. I want to fight to wipe out the enemy force. Father, please pray to Allah so that I can come back as a Ghazi. I request you not to curse me for my joining the war.

I am guilty of doing many sins in the past. But, you have forgiven me. I hope that this time also you will forgive me. Accept my million Salaam and convey my Salaam to Ammajan. Tell her to pray for me. Tell Fupi also to pray for me. Convey my affection to the younger ones.


Respectfully yours

Faruque

 

[SekrutYakhni]

3 million Bengalis were killed?????

How can you even believe that?

What kind of Army we had?

We did not even have capability to support our troops and we killed 3 million Muslims..
Sounds weird...


Conclusion of 1971 in my opinions is

Politicians made blunders not mistakes
Army also made some mistakes
Some Bengalis were traitors along with some West/East Pakistan politicians and India took advantage of that....
Some good Bengalis started to hate West Pakistan because of our policies...


but we could handle the situation if there was no foreign involvement involved!

Anyone can disagree with me but please choose respectful words as I did

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Non-Bengalis were indeed killed, but only as reaction to the atrocities committed by the Pakistani army. Your allegation is akin to accusing a rape victim of ‘hurting’ her rapist in the process of defending herself.

‘Revolution is not a dinner party, nor an essay, nor a painting, nor a piece of embroidery; it cannot be advanced softly, gradually, carefully, considerately, respectfully, politely, plainly, and modestly. A revolution is an insurrection, an act of violence by which one class overthrows another.’ – Mao.

You forgot to tell us, what would constitute ‘proof’ in your book. In fact you have ended up doing exactly what you have accused people of – that of beating about the bush. Not only that, to provide your ‘proof’ you have simply distorted history – even the ones which are recorded by neutral parties – and have quoted dubious research works to support your claim.

Horsesh!t. That’s what it is.

Far from being a ‘late entrant’ – PA was the reason why things happened the way it happened. On March 1st, 1971, US Memorandum report to Kissinger notes:

‘A general atmosphere of tension prevails throughout Dacca, and numerous spontaneous processions and demonstrations calling for the independence of East Pakistan are reported to be underway. So far violence reportedly has been limited, but the potential for major destructive outbursts would seem to be great, especially if the West Pakistani-controlled provincial regime takes any heavy-handed actions against the demonstrators.’

On March 4th, 1971 Memorandum report to Kissinger notes:

‘At least one Pakistani air force C–130 has been seen flying into Dacca and there are recurrent reports of forces being flown into Dacca via the Pakistani commercial airline and of the movement of troops from the West via ship. These reports can not be confirmed but it is known that there is pressure from some elements in the military to make a quick repressive strike against the East Pakistani leaders in hopes of cowing them and the rest of the province.[The contingency paper says intervention is “very unlikely”. This seems less and less true. CIA working level judges that the East would respond with further violence rather than surrender.] ’

At that point, PA had around 20,000 troops of which, 15,000 were alone deployed in Dacca – the initial killing fields.

On 13th March, 1971, the Memorandum report to Kissinger notes:

‘An immediate showdown between East and West Pakistan has been averted for the time being. […] There is also evidence that the military forces in the East Wing are being gradually strengthened by troops being airlifted through Ceylon.

[…]

Yahya could decide not to take Rahman’s challenge lying down and to retaliate, perhaps to the extent of arresting Rahman and the other leaders, and attempting to clamp a military lid on East Pakistan. There are two basic problems here: (1) Rahman has embarked on a Gandhian-type non-violent non-cooperation campaign which makes it harder to justify repression; and (2) the West Pakistanis lack the military capacity to put down a full scale revolt over a long period.

A static waiting game could develop with neither the army nor the civilians prepared to take a bold initiative to break the deadlock and each hoping the other will break first. This is where we are now and Rahman would probably prefer to continue like this for a while longer so that he can gradually take de facto control of East Pakistan without forcing a showdown.’

On 15th March, the US assessment was:

‘If Yahya, or others in the military, decide to resist Mujib’s action by force, East Pakistan will be engulfed in a struggle between the military and the Bengali nationalists, the outcome of which can only be eventual independence of Bengal and the breaking of all ties with West Pakistan—unless, as seems unlikely in the long run, the army can successfully contain a rebellion. Mujib’s statement called on Bengalis to resist “by all possible means” any force used against them.’

It is pretty clear that during March, right upto the infamous crackdown, the situation in Bangladesh was nowhere near as violent as ‘mass killings’ of non-Bengalis would indicate. In fact there was a ‘deadlock’ between the military and the civilians. Even US was doubtful, if any severe crackdown could be justified by PA, given the status quo. Your allegation that by 25th March, ‘massive number of West Pakistani soldiers, their families, civilians and non Bengalis were already killed’ just doesn't fly. It is nothing but a self-serving delusional rant. Besides, there are two gross factual errors.

a) The mass defection had taken place only after the crackdown, not before and b) Indian trained Mukti Bahinis entered East Pakistan for the first time, only during the last week of April, 1971. So they couldn’t have possibly taken part in any sort of ‘killings’ of non-Bengalis, before the crack down. The killings didn’t continue even after surrender, because all the prisoners, 90,000 in total, were in Indian custody and Mukti Bahinis were disarmed, accept for some pockets in the rural areas.

A word or two (or three) about Hamoodur Rahman Commission (HRC).

1. No one has seen the original HRC. What is available on the net is what GoP released as supplementary report. No one knows for sure if the contents on that supplementary report actually correspond with the original report. Hence any conclusion of the report, which goes against common and/or researched knowledge and wisdom, would have to be taken with a pinch of salt.

2. HRC was formed to investigate into the failure of PA and to find the reason behind the break up of Pak and not to investigate into the number of deaths.

3. The supplementary HRC report claims that only 213 witnesses were examined to arrive at its conclusion. HRC arrived at that outrageously ridiculous number of deaths on the basis of this even outrageously little witness. It is a joke, by any standard.

Quoting HRC figures of death toll, as something etched in stone, is intellectual bankruptcy.

Maharaj I STOPPED to read your post when you talked about revolution..
get your history books correct...

 

[toxic_pus]

^^ At least you are honest enough to admit that you have chosen to remain ignorant.

 

[SekrutYakhni]

^^ At least you are honest enough to admit that you have chosen to remain ignorant.

Yeah

If you read my post and on the first line it said that India attacked the U.S.

Would you consider my post serious when you read the rest of it?
I don't think so...

You did the same..
you wrote revolution...
So there was no reason to read rest of your post for me....

 

[toxic_pus]

Yeah

If you read my post and on the first line it said that India attacked the U.S.

Would you consider my post serious when you read the rest of it?
I don't think so...

You did the same..
you wrote revolution...
So there was no reason to read rest of your post for me....

Yeah sure Whatever gets you to sleep at night.

On the other hand, if you had actually read it through, you would have realised that a) the 'revolution' part is a quote from Mao and b) the sources that I have used are all declassified US documents.

But hey, whatever suits your fancy.

 

[Saleem]

as for number of troops,

Pakistan had 45,000 regular Army personnel including some 32 Infantry Battalions. If we take fighting strength of each as say 500, that is 16,000 men -

paramilitaries may have numbered 100,000 effectives

 

[SekrutYakhni]

Yeah sure Whatever gets you to sleep at night.

On the other hand, if you had actually read it through, you would have realised that a) the 'revolution' part is a quote from Mao and b) the sources that I have used are all declassified US documents.

But hey, whatever suits your fancy.

Ohh yeah

a) So you used the quote to enlighten us...wow
b) You used the quote because you made some relevance of revolution with East Pakistan in 1971
c) You told us your "fancy thinking."

You mentioned revolution as you thought there was a true revolution in East Pakistan...
You cannot refute it.

 

[khabib]

Even 1 innocent death is regrettable and not allowed to go easily, but i have seen lot of hatred in Bangladeshi eyes and nearly everyone quotes these millions figures, all i need is a govt researched approx figure so that we should know how many in reality died, as if the millions figure proves to be a lie, then why it is still quoted and also it shows the real intent of those who had quoted those figures initially as they used this figure of their own people killed for exploitation.

Brother, We are doing a academic/subjective debate and that is very healthy. Unfortunately, at this stage history seems to be biased at our point of view. Still, majority of my pakistani brothers put the blaim on the hindu india and most of the bangladeshi see the staff with a different prism. If a govt. level study is done it will be always biased depend upon the which side it is on.

 

[TopCat]

as for number of troops,

Pakistan had 45,000 regular Army personnel including some 32 Infantry Battalions. If we take fighting strength of each as say 500, that is 16,000 men -

paramilitaries may have numbered 100,000 effectives

Did that make any difference to a terrified Bengali who was running for his life? Bullets are all same either from a paramilitary or from a regular army.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Non-Bengalis were indeed killed, but only as reaction to the atrocities committed by the Pakistani army. Your allegation is akin to accusing a rape victim of ‘hurting’ her rapist in the process of defending herself.

‘Revolution is not a dinner party, nor an essay, nor a painting, nor a piece of embroidery; it cannot be advanced softly, gradually, carefully, considerately, respectfully, politely, plainly, and modestly. A revolution is an insurrection, an act of violence by which one class overthrows another.’ – Mao.

You forgot to tell us, what would constitute ‘proof’ in your book. In fact you have ended up doing exactly what you have accused people of – that of beating about the bush. Not only that, to provide your ‘proof’ you have simply distorted history – even the ones which are recorded by neutral parties – and have quoted dubious research works to support your claim.

Horsesh!t. That’s what it is.

Far from being a ‘late entrant’ – PA was the reason why things happened the way it happened. On March 1st, 1971, US Memorandum report to Kissinger notes:

‘A general atmosphere of tension prevails throughout Dacca, and numerous spontaneous processions and demonstrations calling for the independence of East Pakistan are reported to be underway. So far violence reportedly has been limited, but the potential for major destructive outbursts would seem to be great, especially if the West Pakistani-controlled provincial regime takes any heavy-handed actions against the demonstrators.’

On March 4th, 1971 Memorandum report to Kissinger notes:

‘At least one Pakistani air force C–130 has been seen flying into Dacca and there are recurrent reports of forces being flown into Dacca via the Pakistani commercial airline and of the movement of troops from the West via ship. These reports can not be confirmed but it is known that there is pressure from some elements in the military to make a quick repressive strike against the East Pakistani leaders in hopes of cowing them and the rest of the province.[The contingency paper says intervention is “very unlikely”. This seems less and less true. CIA working level judges that the East would respond with further violence rather than surrender.] ’

At that point, PA had around 20,000 troops of which, 15,000 alone were deployed in Dacca – the initial killing fields.

On 13th March, 1971, the Memorandum report to Kissinger notes:

‘An immediate showdown between East and West Pakistan has been averted for the time being. […] There is also evidence that the military forces in the East Wing are being gradually strengthened by troops being airlifted through Ceylon.

[…]

Yahya could decide not to take Rahman’s challenge lying down and to retaliate, perhaps to the extent of arresting Rahman and the other leaders, and attempting to clamp a military lid on East Pakistan. There are two basic problems here: (1) Rahman has embarked on a Gandhian-type non-violent non-cooperation campaign which makes it harder to justify repression; and (2) the West Pakistanis lack the military capacity to put down a full scale revolt over a long period.

A static waiting game could develop with neither the army nor the civilians prepared to take a bold initiative to break the deadlock and each hoping the other will break first. This is where we are now and Rahman would probably prefer to continue like this for a while longer so that he can gradually take de facto control of East Pakistan without forcing a showdown.’

On 15th March, the US assessment was:

‘If Yahya, or others in the military, decide to resist Mujib’s action by force, East Pakistan will be engulfed in a struggle between the military and the Bengali nationalists, the outcome of which can only be eventual independence of Bengal and the breaking of all ties with West Pakistan—unless, as seems unlikely in the long run, the army can successfully contain a rebellion. Mujib’s statement called on Bengalis to resist “by all possible means” any force used against them.’

It is pretty clear that during March, right upto the infamous crackdown, the situation in Bangladesh was nowhere near as violent as ‘mass killings’ of non-Bengalis would indicate. In fact there was a ‘deadlock’ between the military and the civilians. Even US was doubtful, if any severe crackdown could be justified by PA, given the status quo. Your allegation that by 25th March, ‘massive number of West Pakistani soldiers, their families, civilians and non Bengalis were already killed’ just doesn't fly. It is nothing but a self-serving delusional rant. Besides, there are two gross factual errors.

a) The mass defection had taken place only after the crackdown, not before and b) Indian trained Mukti Bahinis entered East Pakistan for the first time, only during the last week of April, 1971. So they couldn’t have possibly taken part in any sort of ‘killings’ of non-Bengalis, before the crack down. The killings didn’t continue even after surrender, because all the prisoners, 90,000 in total, were in Indian custody and Mukti Bahinis were disarmed, accept for some pockets in the rural areas.

A word or two (or three) about Hamoodur Rahman Commission (HRC).

1. No one has seen the original HRC. What is available on the net is what GoP released as supplementary report. No one knows for sure if the contents on that supplementary report actually correspond with the original report. Hence any conclusion of the report, which goes against common and/or researched knowledge and wisdom, would have to be taken with a pinch of salt.

2. HRC was formed to investigate into the failure of PA and to find the reason behind the break up of Pak and not to investigate into the number of deaths.

3. The supplementary HRC report claims that only 213 witnesses were examined to arrive at its conclusion. HRC arrived at that outrageously ridiculous number of deaths on the basis of this even outrageously little witness. It is a joke, by any standard.

Quoting HRC figures of death toll, as something etched in stone, is intellectual bankruptcy.

Keeping this above horseshit aside, leave aside HRC report, provide one single link to any Bagladeshi govt report which tells and gives little bit proof to the 3 million figure.

HRC is a biased report, agreed. Now give us the Bangladesh govt report claiming this and this were killed and total figure comes to this. Decades have passed since the independence, there must be something official by them.

Don't give a horseshit reply like above, give a proper one, even if its Bangladesh govt version.

 

[TaimiKhan]

Brother, We are doing a academic/subjective debate and that is very healthy. Unfortunately, at this stage history seems to be biased at our point of view. Still, majority of my pakistani brothers put the blaim on the hindu india and most of the bangladeshi see the staff with a different prism. If a govt. level study is done it will be always biased depend upon the which side it is on.

I have never disputed that it was the mistake of our leadership which made this fiasco happen resulting in innocents getting killed and we got seperated. But even if its a biased report,atleast a figure should have been given, a research must have been done which could have further carried on to know approx how many died. Atleast it may reduce some of the hatred among bengali brothers after knowing that what figure was quoted to them is not true about Pakistan and it was deliberate to bring much much more hatred in them for pakistan by some people. In simple, it was our mistake which was utilized by someone who doesn't wishes to see either Pakistan prosper or Bangladesh may be by looking at some of the Bangladeshi members post about what India is doing to harm BD.

 

[toxic_pus]

Keeping this above horseshit aside, leave aside HRC report, provide one single link to any Bagladeshi govt report which tells and gives little bit proof to the 3 million figure.

HRC is a biased report, agreed. Now give us the Bangladesh govt report claiming this and this were killed and total figure comes to this. Decades have passed since the independence, there must be something official by them.

Don't give a horseshit reply like above, give a proper one, even if its Bangladesh govt version.

If my reply was horsesh!t, how come you failed to refute it. Go ahead, refute it. Show us that, 'massive number of West Pakistani soldiers, their families, civilians and non Bengalis were already killed by Indian created and trained Mukti Bahini, deserters form the East Pakistan Rifles and the East Bengal Regiment.'

And while you are at it, try to find a reference to '3 million' dead in my reply.

O wait. You can't.