Battle of Yarmouk

[anonymus]

hey i just read a book called khalid bin waleed sword of allah which gives a very detailed info about the wars with eastern roman empire. Anyhow western historian for ages have been manipulating the strength of byzantine during battle of yarmouk. the real strength was ofcourse was no less then 150,000 while Muslims being 41,000. but the western historians
present the byzantine numbers as 35,000-50,000 which is totally wrong.

The low strength if academically proven may be because of following factors.....

1. Byzantine did not realised the importance of coming battle and sent only provincial army than their core forces.Rise of Islam was quite sudden and rapid and a whole lot of people would have misjudged the power of some desert nomads ( no offence intended )

2.Byzantine also had areas west of Constantinople as part of it's kingdom.It could not have evacuated that area of military as Huns would have moved in.

3.Armys have always ran on the surplus revenue.With the progression of time,the strength of standing armies have fallen as new avenues which appropriate taxes have arose.Strength of Armies in ancient times was about 10% of population while modern armies have less than 1%.

4.The figure of 50,000 probably looks low to you because you must have read biased account of other battles.Example is that of Battle of thermopyale.Herodotus ascribe strength of Xerses army at 2.6 million Vs 7000 greeks.But most of the modern historian believes that strenght of Xerxes army was between 70,000-300,000 and for this number he has to scrap whole of his Empire spanning from India to modern day Turkey.


I have little knowledge about the said battle ( Yarmouk ) and it's prelude.But the case is that i have rarely seen a professional historian of today's world lying as lying damages their professional integrity and being proved academically dishonest is bad for one's career.They usually tinker with interpretation to suit their ideology rather than numbers.

 

[anonymus]

The Muslim and Arab historians do not lie, we can compare with Greek historians against the Ottoman empire (the Greeks always won the maritime battles!?)and the Hindu Historians about the Muslim massacre of Hindus (80 million they say, so how big the entire Hindu population was at that time?)
In a recent article I came across translations of "Quaatilou" as Kill instead of fight against, so how much manipulation is there in historic facts, if this is just one word!!!

Muslim and Arabs had their share of liars.lying in historical matters is a psychological condition which get better of people unless it goes through process of peer review.

You seem to be ignorant of the fact that historical frontier of India lie between Kabul-Kandahar-Ghazni line thus incorporating Pakistan and 20% of Afghanistan in India.

Also figure of massacre is given for 540 years of Muslim rule on Indian subcontinent so 80 million is not so high.Also include in figure are Buddhist count of Afghanistan and Indian state of Bihar which is usually counted with Hindus as lot of people (Including Indian government) treat Buddhists as a sect of Hinduism.

 

[Juice]

I tend to believe the lower numbers. The whole "we beat 2 million with a horse , 2 goats and 5 realllly tough guys doesn't wash. As stated earlier, modern historians have debunked most of these claims (can't remember which battle, but it was calculated if the numbers had been true, the rear columns would have still been forming up to leave Rome while the front of the column would have already been fighting). Some how I doubt the Byzantines had a good proportion of the troop numbers used in Barbarossa stuck between two small creeks.

 

[Juice]

(that's not even trying to figure the logisics for those numbers before they had trucks or rail-roads.)

 

[somebozo]

History has often been manipulated to show superiority of one over another especially in Middle East with so many rival power struggles. Many muslim historians will only quote the numbers of official army men accompanying KBW however a large force of volunteers who joined the war is often ignored. A few historians have described the Arab assault of Byzantine as a wave over wave of human attacks so that's some thought for food. None the less..Khalid Bin Walid fought over a 100 battles without defeat and that makes him one of the finest and bravest generals in history.

 

[AUz]

Muslim and Arabs had their share of liars.lying in historical matters is a psychological condition which get better of people unless it goes through process of peer review.

You seem to be ignorant of the fact that historical frontier of India lie between Kabul-Kandahar-Ghazni line thus incorporating Pakistan and 20% of Afghanistan in India.

Also figure of massacre is given for 540 years of Muslim rule on Indian subcontinent so 80 million is not so high.Also include in figure are Buddhist count of Afghanistan and Indian state of Bihar which is usually counted with Hindus as lot of people (Including Indian government) treat Buddhists as a sect of Hinduism.

80 million is a HOAX , unless you give some credible neutral historian and/or any experts' calculation? (And yes , you don't need to post BS Spencer's JW site author or something of that (retarded) caliber...) ...

----

On topic : I read in the book , "Islam at war" by George F. Nafziger , that historians until now are unable to explain the success of The Great Arab Conquests . Arabs were ill-equipped , ill-experienced , ill-trained , poor in resources , AND less in numbers but yet they defeated the "Super-powers" of their time...the Roman and Persian Empires. One theory is that Roman and Persian Empires were exhausted due to fighting against eachother and hence couldn't stand rise of Islam and forces of Muhammad. But this theory , Nafizger says , is absolutely rubbish because Arabs themselves were exhausted due to the tribal wars of CENTURIES , before Muhammad (SAW) united them. Secondly , even "exhausted" Roman/Persian millitaries were far , far superior , organized , well-trained , and well-equipped as compared with the Arab militaries...and even more on that...they were also had the NUMERIC advantage on their side and Arabs were fighting on the ENEMY'S lands for the first time in their history probably. So Roman/Persian empires also had the "home-advantage" ....Kinda fascinating..

And oh yeah...the other explanation is that since the God was with Arab forces , they won against all odds. Problem solved.

 

[Juice]

Well, considering the success of Roman, Mongol, etc. armies through history, you would have to believe in their gods too...(if you buy the whole gods give victory). I would say morale (new religion, fanatical believers), along with a large calvary force (the Mongols also used light mobile forces, the "blitzkreig" of the day)

 

[somebozo]

Well, considering the success of Roman, Mongol, etc. armies through history, you would have to believe in their gods too...(if you buy the whole gods give victory). I would say morale (new religion, fanatical believers), along with a large calvary force (the Mongols also used light mobile forces, the "blitzkreig" of the day)

Exactly my logic..

Much of the concept of Jihad in islam draws lines on Arab tribal and nomadic culture. That is invading foreign lands and bringing war bounty. Something exactly what the pagan era Arabs used to do by making constant raids across the trade routes of Syria and Persia..

Secondly, a much small Israel spanked the brains out of Arabs so it could be argued that God is on Israel side which once again validates their entire "choosen people" claim.


Religion back in the day was a political force much like ideologies of today. Soviet Union invaded to spread socialism and USA invaded to spread democracy. So it can be argued that socialism and democracy are also religions of 21st century. Ironically sane and level headed leaders who think with common sense and not religious cues tend to be far more sucessfull. No God's play here.

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

and KBW never belived in arab brotherhood so that squares it all

repression of free intellectual thinking does no good an here is a proof of it.

otherwise please abandon the claim to 1000 something Islamic inventions as well because many of these scientists and inventors were not Arabs. Its like how the soviet union claimed the credits of Ukrainian aviation industry, German and Polish rocket experts in the name of socialism.

i am not sure if I should laugh with you or laugh as you?

Only people with great history are allowed in this discussion.
ملØ*ق:قائمة علماء العرب - ويكيبيديا، الموسوعة الØ*رة

Now, show me your scientific contributions to humanity.
You have abandoned Muslim brotherhood, so never show off to others especially Indians with our history. The last thing I could ever expect is people from S/E Asia questioning Arabs history, hehehe ...

Exactly my logic..

Much of the concept of Jihad in islam draws lines on Arab tribal and nomadic culture. That is invading foreign lands and bringing war bounty. Something exactly what the pagan era Arabs used to do by making constant raids across the trade routes of Syria and Persia..

Secondly, a much small Israel spanked the brains out of Arabs so it could be argued that God is on Israel side which once again validates their entire "choosen people" claim.


Religion back in the day was a political force much like ideologies of today. Soviet Union invaded to spread socialism and USA invaded to spread democracy. So it can be argued that socialism and democracy are also religions of 21st century. Ironically sane and level headed leaders who think with common sense and not religious cues tend to be far more sucessfull. No God's play here.

Israel haven't ever fought alone but with USA and the west, India spanked the hell out of your brain although you were backed by two superpowers China and USA, you just give up lands to China and cry over Kashmir, and don't forget to pray for USA to stop air raids... say hello to your Arab boss.

 

[Takaavar]

and KBW never belived in arab brotherhood so that squares it all

repression of free intellectual thinking does no good an here is a proof of it.

otherwise please abandon the claim to 1000 something Islamic inventions as well because many of these scientists and inventors were not Arabs. Its like how the soviet union claimed the credits of Ukrainian aviation industry, German and Polish rocket experts in the name of socialism.

i am not sure if I should laugh with you or laugh as you?

Those achievements occured because there was a Muslim brotherhood at that time
But now there is only hostility between Muslims -- the reason for all Muslim backwardness
Shame to all of us

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

80 million is a HOAX , unless you give some credible neutral historian and/or any experts' calculation? (And yes , you don't need to post BS Spencer's JW site author or something of that (retarded) caliber...) ...

----

On topic : I read in the book , "Islam at war" by George F. Nafziger , that historians until now are unable to explain the success of The Great Arab Conquests . Arabs were ill-equipped , ill-experienced , ill-trained , poor in resources , AND less in numbers but yet they defeated the "Super-powers" of their time...the Roman and Persian Empires. One theory is that Roman and Persian Empires were exhausted due to fighting against eachother and hence couldn't stand rise of Islam and forces of Muhammad. But this theory , Nafizger says , is absolutely rubbish because Arabs themselves were exhausted due to the tribal wars of CENTURIES , before Muhammad (SAW) united them. Secondly , even "exhausted" Roman/Persian millitaries were far , far superior , organized , well-trained , and well-equipped as compared with the Arab militaries...and even more on that...they were also had the NUMERIC advantage on their side and Arabs were fighting on the ENEMY'S lands for the first time in their history probably. So Roman/Persian empires also had the "home-advantage" ....Kinda fascinating..

And oh yeah...the other explanation is that since the God was with Arab forces , they won against all odds. Problem solved.

And God was with Zionists in 1967 war? right? and wasn't he with Indians in their wars with you?

 

[somebozo]

Only people with great history are allowed in this discussion.
ملØ*Ù‚:قائمة علماء العرب - ويكيبيديا، الموسوعة الØ*رة

Ibn Majoosi was really arab..as the name implies..come on man..fool someone else...

علي بن العباس المجوسي أو ابن المجوسي المتوفي سنة 400 هجرية الموافق 1009 ميلادي. من أشهر أطباء الدولة العباسية، أصله فارسي من الأحواز. وقد اشتهر بكتابه المسمى (كامل الصناعة الطبية الضروري&#1577 والمشهور باسم (الكتاب الملك&#1610، فيه عشرون مقالة عن الطب الإسلامي وعلم الاجتماع وهو لايزال إلى الآن مخطوطة.

And Ibn-Sina from the same Wikipedia list you posted:

ابن سينا هو أبو علي الحسين بن عبد الله بن الحسن بن علي بن سينا، عالم وطبيب مسلم من بخارى اشتهر بالطب والفلسفة واشتغل بهما. ولد في قرية (أفشن&#1577 بالقرب من بخارى (في أوزبكستان حالي&#1575 من أب من مدينة بلخ (في أفغانستان حالي&#1575 وأم قروية سنة 370هـ (980&#1605 وتوفي في مدينة همدان (في إيران حالي&#1575 سنة 427هـ (1037&#1605.

And Ibn-Salah became an Arab too in the same fashion as Salahudin Ayyubi was Arab

أبُو عَمْرٍو عُثْمَانُ ابْنُ المُفْتِي صَلاَحِ الدِّيْنِ عَبْدِ الرَّحْمَانِ بنِ عُثْمَانَ بنِ مُوْسَى الکردی، الشَّهْرُزُوْرِيُّ(السلیمانی&#1577، المَوْصِلِيُّ المعروف بابن الصلاح أحد علماء الحديث تفقه على والده بشهرزور، ثم اشتغل بالموصل مدة ثم درس بالمدرسة الصلاحية ببيت المقدس مديدة، فلما أمر بهدم سور المدينة، نزح إلى دمشق، فدرس بالرواحية مدة عندما أنشأها الواقف، فلما أنشئت الدار الأشرفية صار شيخها، ثم ولي تدريس الشامية الصغرى.

Hassan Najfi, from the beloved nation all of you arabs love to hate - Iran

حسن توفيق النجفي ولد في الموصل سنة 1345هـ/1926م، ودرس في كلية الملك فيصل وهي مدرسة لا يدخلها غير المتميزين من الطلبة، وتخرج فيها عام 1944م، ثم دخل كلية التجارة ببغداد وحصل على ليسانس تجارة واقتصاد عام 1950.[1]

Abu Kamel al Haseb was Egyptian..again a country only linguistically Arab

العالم العربي المسلم أبو كامل شجاع بن أسلم بن محمد بن شجاع، الحاسب، المصري، مهندس وعالم بالحساب. عاش في القرن الثالث للهجرة، ولم تذكر عنه المصادر العربية القديمة ما يزيل الغموض المحيط بتاريخ حياته. جاء في كتاب (أخبار العلماء بأخبار الحكما&#1569: (وكان فاضل وقته، وعالم زمانه، وحاسب أوانه. وله تلاميذ تخرجوا بعلم&#1607. وذكره ابن النديم في (الفهرس&#1578 ابن حجر العسقلاني في (لسان الميزا&#1606. ويعتبر من أعظم علماء الحساب في العصر الذي تبع عصر الخوارزم

During the Soviet era, Russia took over the credits of Ukranian Aviation experts, Polish rockets experts and German nuclear scientest all in the name of socialism. Same implies here - Arabs stole the credits of great historians, scientests and mathematicians in the name of Islamic Brotherhood.

Now, show me your scientific contributions to humanity.
You have abandoned Muslim brotherhood, so never show off to others especially Indians with our history. The last thing I could ever expect is people from S/E Asia questioning Arabs history, hehehe ...

Category:Inventions of the Indus Valley Civilization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Centers of Ancient Learning in Pakistan

Main article: Taxila


The Ancient University of Taxila in Pakistan.
Pakistan was the seat of ancient learning and some consider Taxila to be an early university [12] [13] [14] or centre of higher education,[15] others do not consider it a university in the modern sense, [16] [17] [18] in contrast to the later Nalanda University.[18][19][20]
Takshashila is described in some detail in later Jātaka tales, written in Sri Lanka around the 5th century CE.[21] Generally, a student entered Taxila at the age of sixteen. The Vedas and the Eighteen Arts, which included skills such as archery, hunting, and elephant lore, were taught, in addition to its law school, medical school, and school of military science.[22]

Tell me if you were even having a civilization at that time. And dont come back with info on Roman ruins of Petra because those signify that the area was under "Roman Imperialism" at that time. Nothing indigenous about it.

Israel haven't ever fought alone but with USA and the west, India spanked the hell out of your brain although you were backed by two superpowers China and USA, you just give up lands to China and cry over Kashmir, and don't forget to pray for USA to stop air raids... say hello to your Arab boss.

When its a defeat - we do admit defeat. We dont twist takes of defeat into victory.

In 1948 two wars were fought.

On country fought against a much larger neighbor and actually gained territory.

On other hand, an alliance of 11 countries ganged up on a much tiny resource starved country only to end up losing a lot of territory...You think and decide the victor..!

Date 15 May 1948 – 10 March 1949

Final armistice agreement concluded on 20 July 1949

Location: Former Mandate Palestine, Sinai Peninsula, southern Lebanon
Result: Israeli victory, tactical and strategic Arab failure,[2] Armistice Agreements
Territorial changes: Israel keeps area allotted to it by Partition Plan, captures 50% of area allotted to Arab state, Jordanian occupation of West Bank, Egyptian occupation of the Gaza Strip

1948 Arab

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

By 712 A.D., Arab had reached till Mekran, the ancient Gedrosia. To the east of this province lay the kingdom of Sindh ruled by Dahir, son of Brahman Chach. The story begin when the king of Ceylon was sending to Hajjaj, Viceroy of the eastern provinces of the Caliphate, the orphan daughters of Muslim merchants who had died in his dominion. The vessel was attacked and plundered by the pirates at the coast of Sindh. Hajjaj sent a letter through Mohammed Bin Haroon, Governor of Mekran demanding reparation. But Dahir replied that the aggressors were beyond his control. Enraged Hajjaj then obtained from Caliph Walid the permission to send an expedition into Sindh and dispatched Ubaidullah against Debul but he was defeated and slained and Budail who followed met the same fate.

Hajjaj deeply affected by these two failures sent his cousin and son-in-law Mohammed bin Qasim. Soon, Debul fell to his armies in 711 A.D. due to a treachery by a Brahman of Debul fort. What followed next was plunder and destruction of temples of Debul. Thousands of men were brutally killed and the women folk were most shamelessly dishonored.

Soon the army of Qasim reached Nirun (75 miles north-east of Hyderabad, in modern Pakistan) and captured it in early 712 A.D. In accordance with the orders received from Hajjaj, Qasim proceeded towards Bahmanabad, where Dahir was prepared to oppose his further advance into the country. In June 712 A.D., Qasim crossed the Indus river. Dahir had meanwhile assembled an army consisting of 50,000 horses and marched from Bahmanabad to Rawar to meet the invader. The armies lay opposite to one another during which some skirmishes took place and on June 20, Dahir mounted his elephant and advanced to the attack.

The battle was sustained with great valor by the Dahir's men. But an Arab succeeded in planting an arrow, to which a burning cotton was attached, in Dahir's elephant. The terrified beast fled towards the river pursued by the Arabs. But soon, Dahir was back, inflicting heavy casualties on the Arabs. But Dahir fell, after being hit by an arrow. A section of the remaining Dahir's army led by Jai Singh fled towards Bahmanabad while Dahir's wife Rani Bai and her handmaids immolated themselves at Rawar. The remnant of the Hindu army rallied under Jai Singh and gave a great resistance to Qasim's army. But soon Jai Singh was forced to Chitroor. Rani Ladi, another wife of Dahir along with the two daughters of Dahir, Suryadevi and Parmaldevi fell into the hands of Qasim. Qasim married Rani Ladi and sent the daughters to the Caliph.

Ungrateful people...

 

[somebozo]

By 712 A.D., Arab had reached till Mekran, the ancient Gedrosia. To the east of this province lay the kingdom of Sindh ruled by Dahir, son of Brahman Chach. The story begin when the king of Ceylon was sending to Hajjaj, Viceroy of the eastern provinces of the Caliphate, the orphan daughters of Muslim merchants who had died in his dominion. The vessel was attacked and plundered by the pirates at the coast of Sindh. Hajjaj sent a letter through Mohammed Bin Haroon, Governor of Mekran demanding reparation. But Dahir replied that the aggressors were beyond his control. Enraged Hajjaj then obtained from Caliph Walid the permission to send an expedition into Sindh and dispatched Ubaidullah against Debul but he was defeated and slained and Budail who followed met the same fate.

Hajjaj deeply affected by these two failures sent his cousin and son-in-law Mohammed bin Qasim. Soon, Debul fell to his armies in 711 A.D. due to a treachery by a Brahman of Debul fort. What followed next was plunder and destruction of temples of Debul. Thousands of men were brutally killed and the women folk were most shamelessly dishonored.

Soon the army of Qasim reached Nirun (75 miles north-east of Hyderabad, in modern Pakistan) and captured it in early 712 A.D. In accordance with the orders received from Hajjaj, Qasim proceeded towards Bahmanabad, where Dahir was prepared to oppose his further advance into the country. In June 712 A.D., Qasim crossed the Indus river. Dahir had meanwhile assembled an army consisting of 50,000 horses and marched from Bahmanabad to Rawar to meet the invader. The armies lay opposite to one another during which some skirmishes took place and on June 20, Dahir mounted his elephant and advanced to the attack.

The battle was sustained with great valor by the Dahir's men. But an Arab succeeded in planting an arrow, to which a burning cotton was attached, in Dahir's elephant. The terrified beast fled towards the river pursued by the Arabs. But soon, Dahir was back, inflicting heavy casualties on the Arabs. But Dahir fell, after being hit by an arrow. A section of the remaining Dahir's army led by Jai Singh fled towards Bahmanabad while Dahir's wife Rani Bai and her handmaids immolated themselves at Rawar. The remnant of the Hindu army rallied under Jai Singh and gave a great resistance to Qasim's army. But soon Jai Singh was forced to Chitroor. Rani Ladi, another wife of Dahir along with the two daughters of Dahir, Suryadevi and Parmaldevi fell into the hands of Qasim. Qasim married Rani Ladi and sent the daughters to the Caliph.

Ungrateful people...

Ungrateful and Despotic rulers:

personal preferences always making a priority over talent and caliber.
Treating their men and subjects like cattle and property - a trait which continues today and some people are so engulfed into this system that they accept their life of a sheep!

For comparison purpose, Greeks invented democracy 4000 years ago. Why would I knowingly subscribe a governing system where the sword of my own Khalifa will be used against me - and there are plenty of events as such in the history. So don't deny it!

Death

Muhammad bin Qasim had begun preparations for further expansions when Hajjaj died, as did Caliph Al-Walid I, who was succeeded by Sulayman ibn Abd al-Malik, who then took revenge against all who had been close to Hajjaj. Sulayman owed political support to opponents of Hajjaj and so recalled both of Hajjaj's successful generals Qutaibah bin Muslim and Qasim. He also appointed Yazid ibn al-Muhallab, once tortured by Hajjaj and a son of Al Muhallab ibn Abi Suffrah, as the governor of Fars, Kirman, Makran, and Sindh; he immediately placed Qasim in chains.


There are two different accounts regarding the details of Qasim's fate:


The account from the Chachnama narrates a tale in which Qasims demise is attributed to the daughters of King Dahir who had been taken captive during the campaign. Upon capture they had been sent on as presents to the Khalifa for his harem. The account relates that they then tricked the Khalifa into believing that Muhammad bin Qasim had violated them before sending them on and as a result of this subterfuge, Muhammad bin Qasim was wrapped in oxen hides,[22] and returned to Syria, which resulted in his death en route from suffocation. This narrative attributes their motive for this subterfuge to securing vengeance for their father's death. Upon discovering this subterfuge, the Khalifa is recorded to have been filled with remorse and ordered the sisters buried alive in a wall.


The Persian historian Baladhuri, however, states that the new Khalifa was a political enemy of Umayyad ex-governor Al-Hajjaj ibn Yusuf, Muhammad bin Qasim’s paternal uncle and thus persecuted all those who were considered close to Hajjaj. Muhammad bin Qasim was therefore recalled in the midst of a campaign of capturing more territory up north. Upon arrival, he was howevere promptly imprisoned in Mosul, (in modern day Iraq) and subjected to torture, resulting in his death.[4][24]
Whichever account is true, is unknown. What is known however is that he was 20 years old when he was killed by his own Caliph. None have read the tombstone marking his grave for none know where he lies.
Muhammad bin Qasim had a son named Amr bin Muhammad who later became governor of Sindh.

By the way what was Mr Khalifa the Pious trying to do with virgin hindu girls in his hareem? And killing his own qualified men upon to testimony of "slave hindu girls"...what a shame..does it get more pathetic than this? Man I never want to be ruled by a moron like this! In true neutrality how many accounts are there of Hindu kings taking Arab women as hareem slaves? Looks like Mr.Khalifa was more motivated by hedonism than Islamic brotherhood

 

[BLACKEAGLE]

Ibn Majoosi was really arab..as the name implies..come on man..fool someone else...



And Ibn-Sina from the same Wikipedia list you posted:


And Ibn-Salah became an Arab too in the same fashion as Salahudin Ayyubi was Arab


Hassan Najfi, from the beloved nation all of you arabs love to hate - Iran

What about the rest 100 or 150 hundred Arab scientists!

Abu Kamel al Haseb was Egyptian..again a country only linguistically Arab

So, you imply that the only Arabs who only came from Arabian Peninsula! And guess what? I am not an Arab anymore...according to Pakistani Somebozo...

During the Soviet era, Russia took over the credits of Ukranian Aviation experts, Polish rockets experts and German nuclear scientest all in the name of socialism. Same implies here - Arabs stole the credits of great historians, scientests and mathematicians in the name of Islamic Brotherhood.

ملØ*Ù‚:قائمة علماء العرب - ويكيبيديا، الموسوعة الØ*رة

And off course the scientists achievements we stole were Pakistanis right? you are the only people who didn't contribute anything unlike Persians and Kurds who contributed allot, Anyway, even those were Arabized and they flourished only under Arab rule you poor Pakistani.

Category:Inventions of the Indus Valley Civilization - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Centers of Ancient Learning in Pakistan

Main article: Taxila


The Ancient University of Taxila in Pakistan.
Pakistan was the seat of ancient learning and some consider Taxila to be an early university [12] [13] [14] or centre of higher education,[15] others do not consider it a university in the modern sense, [16] [17] [18] in contrast to the later Nalanda University.[18][19][20]
Takshashila is described in some detail in later Jātaka tales, written in Sri Lanka around the 5th century CE.[21] Generally, a student entered Taxila at the age of sixteen. The Vedas and the Eighteen Arts, which included skills such as archery, hunting, and elephant lore, were taught, in addition to its law school, medical school, and school of military science.[22]

Tell me if you were even having a civilization at that time. And dont come back with info on Roman ruins of Petra because those signify that the area was under "Roman Imperialism" at that time. Nothing indigenous about it.





When its a defeat - we do admit defeat. We dont twist takes of defeat into victory.

In 1948 two wars were fought.

On country fought against a much larger neighbor and actually gained territory.

On other hand, an alliance of 11 countries ganged up on a much tiny resource starved country only to end up losing a lot of territory...You think and decide the victor..!

Date 15 May 1948 – 10 March 1949

Final armistice agreement concluded on 20 July 1949

Location: Former Mandate Palestine, Sinai Peninsula, southern Lebanon
Result: Israeli victory, tactical and strategic Arab failure,[2] Armistice Agreements
Territorial changes: Israel keeps area allotted to it by Partition Plan, captures 50% of area allotted to Arab state, Jordanian occupation of West Bank, Egyptian occupation of the Gaza Strip

1948 Arab

You have just come up with five inventions by Indians...!

Show me your history, show me your achievements, you have non... in the other thread you considred Indians and Arab rule of Sindh part of your history!

Yes, I am arrogant with people who bite the hands that feed them, those people don't deserve any sympathy. Enough with you Somebbozo, you should be grateful with the time and attention I have given you, which u don't dream of in your real life.