What's new

Battle of ALCMs : BrahMos A vs Pakistan’s Ra’ad

INDIAPOSITIVE

ELITE MEMBER
Joined
Sep 20, 2014
Messages
9,318
Reaction score
-28
Country
India
Location
India
SOURCE: Anand SG / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG

raad_vsbrahmos.jpg


The scene at India Air force Headquarters will be celebratory since air force will finally be getting its hands on an Air-launched variant of India’s most potent Cruise missile dubbed as BrahMos-A after facing years of constant delays in its development .

Recently IAF’s Specially modified Front line fighter aircraft sukhoi-30MKI carried under its belly a 2.5 tonne monster of Air-launched Cruise missile which can hit its target at nearly Mach 3 speed giving IAF a unique distinction of having in its possession an ALCM which literally can take out any targets , Yes any target even an Aircraft carrier .

BrahMos-A is 500kgs lighter than its land-based variant since its looses its larger booster to accommodate a smaller one and will also have additional tail fins since missile will be launched from Air when aircraft its self-has clocked Mach 0.6 speeds. BrahMos-A will pack a much heavier 300kilos warhead when compared to 200-kilo warhead seen on land/ship based missiles .

Now Comparison

Arch rival Pakistani Air force has in its possession subsonic Ra’ad air-launched cruise missile (ALCM) which is operational with vintage Dassault Mirage III aircraft , while Some Pakistani media reports indicate that Ra’ad ALCM has been integrated into JF-17s and F-16s but there is little evidence to back that claim .

Weight

Ra’ad is just 1100 kgs in weight which is nearly half the weight of BrahMos-A ALCM but packs a 450 kilograms of warhead when compared to 350 kilograms since it lacks the advantage of kinetic energy due to its lower speed to take out heavily fortified targets . Ra’ad is subsonic which means its speed is lower than Mach 1 when compared to Mach 2.9 which

Range

Ra’ad ALCM has claimed range of 350kms to take out its targets which seem to be more than claimed range of 290kms of BrahMos-A ALCM but for a decade now Indian Defence Analyst argued that BrahMos can achieve much more range than claimed due to MTCR regulations and that claim got substantial backing when former BrahMos Aerospace boss A Sivathanu Pillai said that BrahMos can achieve better range if certain profiles are used on its complete mission but leaving that fact aside Ra’ad holds minor advantage in range .

Stealth

Ra’ad due to its stealthier build and design will be difficult to track when flying at tree top level but BrahMos-A does not have any stealth in its design since it doesn’t have to since flying at near Mach 3 speed will ensure enemy will have no time to track BrahMos-A in flight .

Survivability

Speed alone will ensure that no ground-based air-defence systems can intercept BrahMos-A once launched from its launch aircraft . BrahMos-A will also give lesser reaction time to rivals air-defence system team to even try their luck to carry out interception of it , Even when Enemy can see and track Sukhoi-30 approaching in advance little can it do once BrahMos-A is fired from the aircraft which gives BrahMos-A highest survivability ratio of nearly 100 % . Ra’ad can fly low and avoid Radar Line of Sight but it is also slow which means the time required to reach its maximum target range will be more than 12-15 minutes once launched from launch platforms . Once launch platform is tracked its launch too can be recorded , deployment of Radars specifically developed to track small flying objects like an Air-launched cruise missile , UAV’s and other Air-to-Ground missiles will make it easier to track a slow-moving ALCM and with advancement in Air defence missile systems successful interception too can be achieved .

Affordability

Ra’ad enjoys lower production and acquisition cost due to the lower level of technology involved in it . BrahMos-A due to its liquid-fueled ramjet engine and other on board sensors makes it very expensive weapon system which also limits its usage to high-value targets while Pakistan can use cheaper Ra’ad ALCM to take out targets which are poorly defended yet has some level of significant value to its rivals .

Conclusion

Well it’s not fair comparison and some of you will argue that it is like comparing Oranges to Apples since both ALCMs are technological from different class and belong to different league altogether but since Ra’ad and BrahMos-A will be Primarily air-launched cruise missile (ALCM) for their respected air force for few years down the line it seems fair to compare them .

http://idrw.org/battle-alcms-indias-brahmos-vs-pakistans-raad/
 
. .
For anyone who's interested. This is an informative post from @gambit


Is it possible to intercept Brahmos with a CIWS ?

Gambit's answer : Sure, but the problems of detection and tracking remains. You need to keep in mind that CIWS will be at ground level, therefore most susceptible to line-of-sight issues. When the Brahmos breaks horizon, the gun will have only literally seconds to reorient itself and fire. This short time span require equally precise radar information as if you are relying on a missile's radar to make its interception.

Question by me : lets say that the radar can track the target at distance of 8km but the gun can engage at 3 km, so can the target be intercepted when it's speed is 2 km/s ?

Gambit's answer : Assume radar tracking and gun reorient is perfect. It does not matter if target is supersonic. If the gun can engage at 3km, which in this case the assumption is head-on, then target speed is not an issue. The gun radar will calculate target speed, estimate when it will reach that 3km point, then fire just before the target reach that 3km point. If radar tracking and gun response are perfect, then bullets and target will meet at 3km distance out.

You should understand that in a head-on intercept, and continue to assume that tracking is perfect, the only reason why target approach speed is important is IF you want to avoid shrapnel. Because the intruder is coming so fast, even if you successfully hit him, there is still forward momentum at supersonic speed for a lot of small masses, still capable of doing a lot of damages if not kill something/someone.

So if we return to that 3km engagement distance, if radar tracking and gun reorient is not as good as you like, even though your bullets may intercept the intruder, that interception may be at 100 meters instead of 3km, spraying you with supersonic shrapnel. But let us say that your AWACS alerted you to a supersonic intruder, your gun reorient to the indicated direction and your gun radar begin transmitting. The moment the supersonic intruder breaks your horizon view, gun radar will have a solution and you will have interception at 3km distance out.

If you are defending something else that the intruder is going after, then the gun solution will lead the intruder, in other words, the bullets will be at an estimated point AHEAD of the intruder's flight and you still will have an interception at 3km distance out. In this situation, the lead depends on the off angle between you and whatever it is that you are defending.


Source: https://defence.pk/threads/brahmos-cant-be-intercepted-in-next-20-years.258714/page-11#post-4425874


Brahmos isn't the first hypersonic AShM. Similar Russian systems have been around for some time and NATO has continued to rely on the usual Gun and Missile based CIWS for their interception.
 
Last edited:
. .
First ,before anything - Lets the test continuing to the actual live testing of the missile

Second, anyone can shed some official info on this !... The role of this missile could be Anti -Ship or Land Attack or both (a matter of programming)

Third, the comparison is silly as they are 2 difference classes of ALCM!
 
. . . .
Brahmos is excellent but only problem I see with them in their current form is they are bulky and thus not suitable for all fighters. Only MKIs are able to carry them. Brahmos-NG will be the real game changer as almost all 4th gen fighters in our inventory will be able to carry them....
 
.
Brahmos is nothing but p-800 labelled as Indian and russian
Brahmos is nothing but an export version of P-800 Oniks AKA Yakhont.

Does it make it LESS EFFECTIVE???

Brahmos is excellent but only problem I see with them in their current form is they are bulky and thus not suitable for all fighters. Only MKIs are able to carry them. Brahmos-NG will be the real game changer as almost all 4th gen fighters in our inventory will be able to carry them....
Baby step pal baby steps! :)
 
. .
Brahmos is nothing but p-800 labelled as Indian and russian
except brahmos has indian parts in electronics (navigation & seeker )on the other hand RAAD has none as pakistan produce no major cruise missile technology according to MTCR while india does.
MTCR_Annex_Handbook_ENG.pdf
 
.
except brahmos has indian parts in electronics (navigation & seeker )on the other hand RAAD has none as pakistan produce no major cruise missile technology according to MTCR while india does.
MTCR_Annex_Handbook_ENG.pdf
funny you brought that up,you must have been to Ra'ad production facility?Cause
All the targeting and electronics are pakistani made innit.
India lives in cold war,Pakistan doesn't,pakistan doesn't publicise its achievements nor will in the future.Too keep the enemy guessing,whereas IA does need to so it can squeeze national pocket more.
 
.
funny you brought that up,you must have been to Ra'ad production facility?Cause
All the targeting and electronics are pakistani made innit.
India lives in cold war,Pakistan doesn't,pakistan doesn't publicise its achievements nor will in the future.Too keep the enemy guessing,whereas IA does need to so it can squeeze national pocket more.
no pakistan doesnt publicise because pakistan has nothing to show..even china with all secretiveness publicise all the data in form of researche paper & patents but not pakistan .pakistan produce none of these technologies

Pakistan doesn't produce any of these technology.yet many of these are in its missiles thanks to china

1. Thrust vector rocket & TVC booster
2. INS systems(Ring laser, FOG. Not even old MEMS)
3. Navigation control system
4. TERCOM
5. DSMAC/Automatic target recognition
6. Seekers
7. composite
8. RCS(radar cross section) design lab & test bed facility
9. Access to military GPS/Beidou/GLONASS/IRNSS/Galileo
=>Not sure about Chinese Beidou
10. Turbofan engines & actuators

http://mtcr_annex_handbook_eng.pdf/
 
.
except brahmos has indian parts in electronics (navigation & seeker )on the other hand RAAD has none as pakistan produce no major cruise missile technology according to MTCR while india does.
MTCR_Annex_Handbook_ENG.pdf
Regardless it will still blow the shit out of ites enemy when used, right ? And to hell with MTCR as if we tell them everything. LOL

no pakistan doesnt publicise because pakistan has nothing to show..even china with all secretiveness publicise all the data in form of researche paper & patents but not pakistan .pakistan produce none of these technologies

Pakistan doesn't produce any of these technology.yet many of these are in its missiles thanks to china

1. Thrust vector rocket & TVC booster
2. INS systems(Ring laser, FOG. Not even old MEMS)
3. Navigation control system
4. TERCOM
5. DSMAC/Automatic target recognition
6. Seekers
7. composite
8. RCS(radar cross section) design lab & test bed facility
9. Access to military GPS/Beidou/GLONASS/IRNSS/Galileo
=>Not sure about Chinese Beidou
10. Turbofan engines & actuators

http://mtcr_annex_handbook_eng.pdf/
And yet it still has a functional cruise missle program long before India did. You see unlike you, we dont need to show off
 
.
Back
Top Bottom