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Bars, Nightclubs, Lottery, Casinos, HorseRacing - Why can't we have those things?

Does someone who gets robbed consent to being robbed?
Does someone who gets murdered consent to getting murdered?
Does a child being abused consent?
Whereas a prostitute consents.
An alcohol drinker consents.
Apples and oranges.
Your analogy is rubbish.

Banning solves nothing.
Has your puritan thinking managed to cure these ills?
The answer is no.

It has succeeded in creating a hypocritical, criminal, corrupt society that covers a pile of excrement in a white sheet and calls it pure.
Prostitution and alcohol is rife, freely available and out of control in Pakistan. It is controlled by criminal mafias.
You are devoid of answers because you can't see past your own self piety.
Your assertion that people who want to see this being regulated by the state are somehow doing it because they believe that these things are right, proper and moral and want to indulge freely couldn't be further from the truth. These people are realists and see human nature for what it is. They also see what damage driving these things underground causes to the fabric of society. I don't doubt that you yourself and people who think like you mean well, but you have no answer to these problems because you cannot or are not prepared to think outside the box. More of the same isn't the answer. The Taliban when they were in power in Afghanistan couldn't stop prostitution. Because banning and force isn't and never has been a solution to anything.
Education and regulatory control is the way forward.


So why it's ban in western countries like USA and UK ?
 
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The rich already have more than what they deserve in Pakistan with very minimum of efforts whereas poor is getting no justice despite of the continuous laborious job from last 70 years. So, lets talk about the needs which are essential for the life of a poor. Lets talk about clean drinking water, food and shelter.
 
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I had a good laugh at the first line :lol:


Ok bro, sure, shia, Ismailis, etc don't exist.
I even provided a link, but I guess I am wrong since an internet person said, with no evidence, that I was wrong.

Anyways, even in Sunni Islam we have different factions

Just YouTube barelvi vs deobandi

So, which Islam is the government going to follow?

Will they make shrimp illegal?
I'll let you know that if any government tries to take my shrimp away.....we gonna have a fight:butcher:
Where did in islam rules of different sects are binding? Give me one reference where it is mandatory to follow shia, sunni or hanafi or shafi schools of thaughts ... give me one example ?
 
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Islam is not a personal matter. It a matter of state, city, street, home, your family and you. if bad things happening all around you while you are enjoying you worship silently. You will still going to hell.

You will judge when even God has promised not to judge till the end of days.

And you will decide who is going to hell and who isn't?

Think twice what you're saying here because you're trying to assume the position of God himself, and that is positively shirk.
 
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You will judge when even God has promised not to judge till the end of days.

And you will decide who is going to hell and who isn't?

Think twice what you're saying here because you're trying to assume the position of God himself, and that is positively shirk.

He is explaining the principle stated by Prophet Muhammad SAW. He is not judging an individual as a person but stating a rule.
 
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He is explaining the principle stated by Prophet Muhammad SAW. He is not judging an individual as a person but stating a rule.

Huh, according to him the principle is sufficient to send me to hell.

Mashallah for him : )
 
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Huh, according to him the principle is sufficient to send me to hell.

Mashallah for him : )
I dont remember the punishment of this sin but this is a major sin...

Similarly if someone is not offerring prayers five times a day as per principle he is going to hell however this is punishment but power to give this punishment or to forgive is with Allah alone ... so we can state the principle based on quran and hadith but offcourse Allah knows the heart and he will judge on the day of judgement ...
 
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Where did in islam rules of different sects are binding? Give me one reference where it is mandatory to follow shia, sunni or hanafi or shafi schools of thaughts ... give me one example ?


:rolleyes:

lol

Look, we all can see exactly what you are doing. we are not stupid.

let me show you in a diagram what is happening

My point --> Government should not get involve in religion because there are so many different ways people practice Islam (Sunni, Shia, deobandi, baralvie, etc)

Your response --> BUT MUDHABS ARE NOT MANDATORY, SHOW ME WHERE MADHABS ARE MANDATORY

That fact that we can't even have a civil conversation on what IS Islam is proof that it is not the job of the government to get involved in this.

Imagine the government, with the tools of force like police and military, getting into this debate.
100% a few people, if not more, are going to die.
 
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:rolleyes:

lol

Look, we all can see exactly what you are doing. we are not stupid.

let me show you in a diagram what is happening

My point --> Government should not get involve in religion because there are so many different ways people practice Islam (Sunni, Shia, deobandi, baralvie, etc)

Your response --> BUT MUDHABS ARE NOT MANDATORY, SHOW ME WHERE MADHABS ARE MANDATORY

That fact that we can't even have a civil conversation on what IS Islam is proof that it is not the job of the government to get involved in this.

Imagine the government, with the tools of force like police and military, getting into this debate.
100% a few people, if not more, are going to die.
No this is not stupid but a deliberate attempt to malign importance of relogion. Lets discuss economics for exemple. What is the chance that we will have a same opinion ? It is zero but still we give right to the government to make economic policies or other laws. But when it comes to islam suddenly u can find all the differences.

Dont u find difference of opinion in constitution or any other law but still u allow government to make interpret and implement those but when same difference of opinion is there in case of islam it became a reasoning to not to follow it ... what a shameful hypocricy ...
 
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Ask yourself a few questions
1. What is the ideal life that a human should live on the planet? A life which doesn't deprive anyone of their right and that gives you everything you need to grow, sustain and evolve as a human being.

When you are able to define "an ideal you" and ask yourself what you need to become that, you may surprise yourself that 98% of things you think you need or want are actually irrelevant and un-necessary to pursue. Now as yourself, what will you end up getting by opening or going to bars, clubs, and lotteries? What good things will you earn for yourself or anyone in society because you spent life and financial resources on the above three things?

Now your question: when a few are doing it anyway... shy should they not be streamlined so everyone does that and possibly contributes to National income? Taking the example of a society composed of 100 people, some 2-5% of them will be radical and non-complying, but that 2-5 % do not become your principle-setters or direction setters. As a society we know some people are involved in wrong-doings, like corruption, breaking law etc - but you cannot make corruption and breaking traffic laws as main-stream, even when these people end up paying penalty for their wrongdoing and apparently penalty money seems to help a few people.

In the West (that you are using as an example and where much of what you are asking for is available openly), the government is running programs that help people quit drinking and gambling as these are considered social problems. So even if your source of inspiration is the west, know they are trying to keep these problems in control and despite being available to everyone, the government runs campaigns to help people avoid them.



A thug wants stealing to be legalized. A rapist wants raping to be legalized, and a prostitute would want prostitution to be legalized.
People never see the filth they are drowning in, they only want to envelope every one else along with them, and to gain some momentary benefits while in the process.
Does someone who gets robbed consent to being robbed?
Does someone who gets murdered consent to getting murdered?
Does a child being abused consent?
Whereas a prostitute consents.
An alcohol drinker consents.
Apples and oranges.
Your analogy is rubbish.

Banning solves nothing.
Has your puritan thinking managed to cure these ills?
The answer is no.

It has succeeded in creating a hypocritical, criminal, corrupt society that covers a pile of excrement in a white sheet and calls it pure.
Prostitution and alcohol is rife, freely available and out of control in Pakistan. It is controlled by criminal mafias.
You are devoid of answers because you can't see past your own self piety.
Your assertion that people who want to see this being regulated by the state are somehow doing it because they believe that these things are right, proper and moral and want to indulge freely couldn't be further from the truth. These people are realists and see human nature for what it is. They also see what damage driving these things underground causes to the fabric of society. I don't doubt that you yourself and people who think like you mean well, but you have no answer to these problems because you cannot or are not prepared to think outside the box. More of the same isn't the answer. The Taliban when they were in power in Afghanistan couldn't stop prostitution. Because banning and force isn't and never has been a solution to anything.
Education and regulatory control is the way forward.



Here comes another flawed attempt at logic instead of trying to comprehend what was written.

Who spoke about the victim? I'm talking about the crime, can you comprehend the difference?

A rapist is not the victim, he is consenting to his crime.
A murderer is not a victim, he is consenting to what he is doing.
A drunk retard is not a victim except of his own.

It's a choice people make.

Just like you cannot legalize murder because people consent to committing it anyway, in the same way you cannot legalize prostitution just because some people will do it, and others will seek it.

Just because some people love to take a dive into filth, and live a live of filth, and condemn themselves to the hellfire and have nothing to do with Allah and His religion, and then come suggest us to allow our general public to also be "allowed" to have free unrestricted access to filth. That does not mean we should condemn our entire society to filth by making it legal for them.

We are a nation of Muslims and created for Muslims and we allow what Allah has allowed and we stop what Allah has made haram.
If people still choose to live a life of an animal and eat and sleep filth and enjoy the delusion till death approached them, then they are responsible for it and they will answer for it. Am I worried if they burn in hell? No I'm worried if the dimwits whose future is in hell are trying to lure others towards it by asking to legalize filth.

Man this guy longhorn is an absolute destroyer. Pdf consider him for your thinktank consulting. He has a moderate approach and a sound reasoning. He balances idealism with realism.


No, only because he carries the same ignorant views that match yours.
A one eyed person is king in front of blind animals.
 
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whose winning?

who said anything about that type of tourism. Why are all the conservatives so perverted?

perversion is a deeply personal construct.

it can only be understand by law as a consensus of majority who disapprove of such behavior.

everything beyond this would be tyrannical
 
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Many Pakistanis drink, dance and gamble often at underground parties. Why can't we have bars, nightclubs, lotteries, sportsbetting and casinos and tax the shit out of them for the national exchequer?

Why do we have this facade where everyone is wonderfully Muslim? In Defence, private parties are protected by the Police to keep unwelcome public out.

Why should pious and often hypocritical Muslims impose their pseudo-morality on others?

Pakistan used to have bars, ballrooms and was a fun place to be at one time.

In the west, lottery revenue is used to provide for students and elderly.

Turkey has all of these things. Why can't Pakistan have anything fun?

in south asia, drinking has been looked down upon since more than two thousand years, arabs record how indians abstained from drinking, indians meaning entire south asia not just present day country of india. kautiliya also reports with disgust how chandragupta maurya engages in drinking and abhors his habits, it doesnt mean people here didn't drink in olden days, only just it was considered social and morally bad and was looked down upon. Today in a pakistani society, the one im aware of, no one tolerates a groom's smoking habit let alone drinking habit. In our social reality, we abstain from pre marital sex, our culture is family oriented, we dont kick our children or our parents and put them in old age homes, we dont dress half naked and wear bikini, this is not our culture, but western culture, the child service doesnt take away the kids and admit them in adopted homes.

So if you want western culture so badly be in the west dont ask us to adopt your cultural norms.
 
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I never understood this. How can a place, or an object, have a religion.

Is your bed a Muslim? Is your house a Muslim? Is your mobile phone a Muslim?

OP is right. Let the people do what they want as long as it doesn't harm others. Religion is a personal matter between man and God, not between man and state.



Don't worry dear, women are being shagged (raped) for free, burkha ho ya na ho, and our people can't do shit.

Problem lies in culture.
Jub Allah nay ban lagaya who are we to interfere?

Sure we aren't proper Muslims ...doesn't mean we need to be all out.

If you want harm ka paisa you can get in USA...keep it there. Our treasury already lacks barkat as it is...We sit on active tectonic plates don't need Allah's wrath...

As for how can a place have a religion the same way it can lack religion.

My ancestors moved to Pakistan for its religion. You having American passport can go to India and enjoy all this...why do you want to legalise haram? Does our society need it?

Just because a few does not mean every one should be allowed to do so. Just coz a few rape women doesn't mean we need to allow it.

Wrong even if majority do is still wrong!
 
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even in india some states have banned alcohol for example gujarat, bihar etc, these are not muslim states but hindu states.

In bihar recently when alcohol was banned some wives celebrated it, commenting how their husbands snuck to get drunk, as i stated alcohol has been considered socially and morally bad if not religiously bad in this part of the world.

on underground parties, black market, there is prostitution ban in USA although some states like california allow it, why doesnt it follow the netherlands and make it legal and people some ''fun'' along with drugs as well? read recent news on how some dutch politicians are proposing drug prostitution ban again due to social situations.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/netherlands-consider-total-ban-prostitution-14274275

regards
 
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