Bars, Nightclubs, Lottery, Casinos, HorseRacing - Why can't we have those things?

[War Thunder]

I'm sorry but what you have just portrayed is an idealised version of Pakistan, it's not the reality.
It's like an Indian portraying India as a first world superpower. It's what he would like it to be, it's not the reality.
Either you go round with your eyes closed or you are ignoring the evidence of your own eyes.
The other thing is that you are branding people who advocate a regulation of these underground activities as somehow defending their own vices, not necessarily true.
Some people have the ability to stand back, see the bigger picture and understand the problems in a society and try to find solutions regardless of what their own personal preferences might be.
Despite your rosy picture, Pakistan is riddled with societal problems that require solutions, and fast. The only solution that is acceptable for most people is to ban that particular activity. Although it's well meaning, it doesn't work. It doesn't work because all you are doing is taking away the supply without reducing the demand. In other words you are creating a vacuum, which will be filled whether you like it or not, and it will be filled by corrupt mafias, protected by corrupt police, protected by corrupt politicians and on it goes. Far from cleaning society by your well meaning ban you have created a layer of corruption which will affect the daily lives of every citizen whereas legal alcohol and prostitution only affects those who want to participate anyway.
The Americans tried to ban alcohol, they succeeded in creating and empowering the Mafia. We have done the exact same thing, the only difference is that they realised what they had done and reversed it because it was damaging society, we seem to think it will just go away because we are Muslims. It won't.

I am sorry but your argument lacks logical reasoning.
If murder is banned because it's wrong, but since people do it anyway so let's make it legal, so people do it openly and whoever is left uncorrupted gets corrupted as well?
Since rape is banned because it's wrong, but since people rape anyway so let's make it legal, so people do it openly and whoever is left uncorrupted gets corrupted as well?

Stop seeking petty justifications for corrupted acts of defiance against Allah and trying to seek public's approval behind it. That's what every other small minded weak person is out there to do.

We are a Muslim society, not some gay *** bullshit like Europe or America. We do what is allowed by Allah and we forbid and punish what is not.
If we start allowing filth, then we as a nation become amongst those who Allah is at war against.

And just to give you some additional logic. Only a rapist would want to legalize raping. Try to better than the sorry state some of you are living and try to throw it at the rest of us.
Comprende?

Ask yourself a few questions
1. What is the ideal life that a human should live on the planet? A life which doesn't deprive anyone of their right and that gives you everything you need to grow, sustain and evolve as a human being.

When you are able to define "an ideal you" and ask yourself what you need to become that, you may surprise yourself that 98% of things you think you need or want are actually irrelevant and un-necessary to pursue. Now as yourself, what will you end up getting by opening or going to bars, clubs, and lotteries? What good things will you earn for yourself or anyone in society because you spent life and financial resources on the above three things?

Now your question: when a few are doing it anyway... shy should they not be streamlined so everyone does that and possibly contributes to National income? Taking the example of a society composed of 100 people, some 2-5% of them will be radical and non-complying, but that 2-5 % do not become your principle-setters or direction setters. As a society we know some people are involved in wrong-doings, like corruption, breaking law etc - but you cannot make corruption and breaking traffic laws as main-stream, even when these people end up paying penalty for their wrongdoing and apparently penalty money seems to help a few people.

In the West (that you are using as an example and where much of what you are asking for is available openly), the government is running programs that help people quit drinking and gambling as these are considered social problems. So even if your source of inspiration is the west, know they are trying to keep these problems in control and despite being available to everyone, the government runs campaigns to help people avoid them.

A thug wants stealing to be legalized. A rapist wants raping to be legalized, and a prostitute would want prostitution to be legalized.
People never see the filth they are drowning in, they only want to envelope every one else along with them, and to gain some momentary benefits while in the process.

 

[Placemat]

Good question. They will do it when Saudi does it maybe. That day is not far off. Btw gambling drugs etc are extremely controlled in most countries. It’s a social evil. Alcohol should be allowed because according to research human being survived because of our ability to breakdown alcohol in our metabolism. So alcohol is important in small quantities.
If beef is allowed then all these can be allowed.

 

[Yaseen1]

most of clubs, brothel house in west are run by human traffickers who exploit poor women to serve their body to people visiting these places,these women are mostly younger girls who have no knowledge of how their body is used and agents of these houses trap these women by false representation of facts and once they enter in this circle they cannot move out of it

Ask yourself a few questions
1. What is the ideal life that a human should live on the planet? A life which doesn't deprive anyone of their right and that gives you everything you need to grow, sustain and evolve as a human being.

When you are able to define "an ideal you" and ask yourself what you need to become that, you may surprise yourself that 98% of things you think you need or want are actually irrelevant and un-necessary to pursue. Now as yourself, what will you end up getting by opening or going to bars, clubs, and lotteries? What good things will you earn for yourself or anyone in society because you spent life and financial resources on the above three things?

Now your question: when a few are doing it anyway... shy should they not be streamlined so everyone does that and possibly contributes to National income? Taking the example of a society composed of 100 people, some 2-5% of them will be radical and non-complying, but that 2-5 % do not become your principle-setters or direction setters. As a society we know some people are involved in wrong-doings, like corruption, breaking law etc - but you cannot make corruption and breaking traffic laws as main-stream, even when these people end up paying penalty for their wrongdoing and apparently penalty money seems to help a few people.

In the West (that you are using as an example and where much of what you are asking for is available openly), the government is running programs that help people quit drinking and gambling as these are considered social problems. So even if your source of inspiration is the west, know they are trying to keep these problems in control and despite being available to everyone, the government runs campaigns to help people avoid them.

 

[Menace2Society]

most of clubs brothel house in west are run by human traffickers who exploit poor women to serve their body to people visiting these places,these women are mostly younger girls who have no knowledge of how their body is used and agents of these houses trap these women by false representation of facts and once they enter in this circle they cannot move out of it

I can go do anything I want right now and so can millions of others but we choose to be good citizens, make money, feed and care for your families. Some of them devout, some of them not. Do you see anarchy and chaos? Its peaceful, clean and abdundant here. We have Allahs blessing here but your violent socities Allah has not blessed, doesn't matter how much you try to con him with your rituals. Its the state of mind and life choices which make the difference.

 

[Rusty]

most of clubs, brothel house in west are run by human traffickers who exploit poor women to serve their body to people visiting these places,these women are mostly younger girls who have no knowledge of how their body is used and agents of these houses trap these women by false representation of facts and once they enter in this circle they cannot move out of it

Source?

Also everything you have said 100% exists in Pakistan right now.

A little while back police in Islamabad raided a brothel where the women were trafficked.

 

[Placemat]

Source?

Also everything you have said 100% exists in Pakistan right now.

A little while back police in Islamabad raided a brothel where the women were trafficked.

That’s really bad this trafficking.. happens all over the poor countries. Should make only call girls and escorts legal. So that those who want to do it can do it

 

[mzain]

I never understood this. How can a place, or an object, have a religion.

Is your bed a Muslim? Is your house a Muslim? Is your mobile phone a Muslim?

OP is right. Let the people do what they want as long as it doesn't harm others. Religion is a personal matter between man and God, not between man and state.



Don't worry dear, women are being shagged (raped) for free, burkha ho ya na ho, and our people can't do shit.

Problem lies in culture.

Islam is not a personal matter. It a matter of state, city, street, home, your family and you. if bad things happening all around you while you are enjoying you worship silently. You will still going to hell.

 

[Menace2Society]

if bad things happening all around you while you are enjoying you worship silently. You will still going to hell.

Define bad things?

Murder is bad, I get that, praying away but doing nothing about murders happening around you. Thats immoral. I totally understand and agree with you.

What about a father of 5 going for a quiet drink with his buddies? Is that bad? Is that hell worthy?

I think your political leaders have used religion to control you and your mind.

A person who believes in God living in a peaceful and just society will go to heaven.

The west is clean and peaceful because it follows these principles. It is the blessings of God.

Muslim countries are a mess, you are clearly not practicing what you are preaching.

 

[Placemat]

Islam is not a personal matter. It a matter of state, city, street, home, your family and you. if bad things happening all around you while you are enjoying you worship silently. You will still going to hell.

What if there is no hell

 

[The Accountant]

You are factually wrong

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_schools_and_branches

Let's just do a thought experiment.
In the Hanafi school, shellfish such as crabs and prawns are Haram.
In others, such as Shafi, they are halal.

Now is it the job of the government to make crabs illegal?

But what about Shafi Muslims?
They consider it halal?

And that's just between Sunni Muslims, now add shia, Ismailia, etc

You will waste billions of dollars in this futile and pointless pursuit.

Money and effort that could be used for betterment of people's lives.

Let people follow what they want and let government do its job of bettering people's lives.

And you are factually wrong becoz none of school of thoughts are binding on Muslims. They are interpretations and its your own personal choosing that you want to take most lenient interpretation or the most harshest interpretation.

As per all school of thoughts no one will be committing based on difference of interpretation from any of these interpretation.

It is comparable that if there are two army cadets trained by different instructor one being harsh give him more harsh targets and other being lenient set easy target, does that means that it will change the status of 2 cadets ? Both of them will remain cadets.

The difference is of interpretation, nothing significant. Furthermore, the responsibility of Islamic state is limited to implementation of Faraiz only (proved from both Quran and Sunnah)

 

[mzain]

Define bad things?

Read about islam.

What about a father of 5 going for a quiet drink with his buddies? Is that bad? Is that hell worthy?

Yes he can be if don't think it as bad

 

[Placemat]

Define bad things?

Murder is bad, I get that, praying away but doing nothing about murders happening around you. Thats immoral. I totally understand and agree with you.

What about a father of 5 going for a quiet drink with his buddies? Is that bad? Is that hell worthy?

I think your political leaders have used religion to control you and your mind.

A person who believes in God living in a peaceful and just society will go to heaven.

The west is clean and peaceful because it follows these principles. It is the blessings of God.

Muslim countries are a mess, you are clearly not practicing what you are preaching.

I agree with most of what you are saying. However let’s leave god out of this. A good guy who keeps to himself and a normal every day who doesn’t believe in god or heaven or hell also deserves good. Now he’ll and heaven are also religious concepts. Suddenly you will realise that you don’t have to be good or bad out of fear of hell or heaven but being good to others just makes your current life easier.

 

[Rusty]

And you are factually wrong becoz none of school of thoughts are binding on Muslims. They are interpretations and its your own personal choosing that you want to take most lenient interpretation or the most harshest interpretation.

As per all school of thoughts no one will be committing based on difference of interpretation from any of these interpretation.

It is comparable that if there are two army cadets trained by different instructor one being harsh give him more harsh targets and other being lenient set easy target, does that means that it will change the status of 2 cadets ? Both of them will remain cadets.

The difference is of interpretation, nothing significant. Furthermore, the responsibility of Islamic state is limited to implementation of Faraiz only (proved from both Quran and Sunnah)

I had a good laugh at the first line


Ok bro, sure, shia, Ismailis, etc don't exist.
I even provided a link, but I guess I am wrong since an internet person said, with no evidence, that I was wrong.

Anyways, even in Sunni Islam we have different factions

Just YouTube barelvi vs deobandi

So, which Islam is the government going to follow?

Will they make shrimp illegal?
I'll let you know that if any government tries to take my shrimp away.....we gonna have a fight

 

[Longhorn]

I am sorry but your argument lacks logical reasoning.
If murder is banned because it's wrong, but since people do it anyway so let's make it legal, so people do it openly and whoever is left uncorrupted gets corrupted as well?
Since rape is banned because it's wrong, but since people rape anyway so let's make it legal, so people do it openly and whoever is left uncorrupted gets corrupted as well?

Stop seeking petty justifications for corrupted acts of defiance against Allah and trying to seek public's approval behind it. That's what every other small minded weak person is out there to do.

We are a Muslim society, not some gay *** bullshit like Europe or America. We do what is allowed by Allah and we forbid and punish what is not.
If we start allowing filth, then we as a nation become amongst those who Allah is at war against.

And just to give you some additional logic. Only a rapist would want to legalize raping. Try to better than the sorry state some of you are living and try to throw it at the rest of us.
Comprende?





A thug wants stealing to be legalized. A rapist wants raping to be legalized, and a prostitute would want prostitution to be legalized.
People never see the filth they are drowning in, they only want to envelope every one else along with them, and to gain some momentary benefits while in the process.

Does someone who gets robbed consent to being robbed?
Does someone who gets murdered consent to getting murdered?
Does a child being abused consent?
Whereas a prostitute consents.
An alcohol drinker consents.
Apples and oranges.
Your analogy is rubbish.

Banning solves nothing.
Has your puritan thinking managed to cure these ills?
The answer is no.

It has succeeded in creating a hypocritical, criminal, corrupt society that covers a pile of excrement in a white sheet and calls it pure.
Prostitution and alcohol is rife, freely available and out of control in Pakistan. It is controlled by criminal mafias.
You are devoid of answers because you can't see past your own self piety.
Your assertion that people who want to see this being regulated by the state are somehow doing it because they believe that these things are right, proper and moral and want to indulge freely couldn't be further from the truth. These people are realists and see human nature for what it is. They also see what damage driving these things underground causes to the fabric of society. I don't doubt that you yourself and people who think like you mean well, but you have no answer to these problems because you cannot or are not prepared to think outside the box. More of the same isn't the answer. The Taliban when they were in power in Afghanistan couldn't stop prostitution. Because banning and force isn't and never has been a solution to anything.
Education and regulatory control is the way forward.

 

[SkyWolf]

Does someone who gets robbed consent to being robbed?
Does someone who gets murdered consent to getting murdered?
Does a child being abused consent?
Whereas a prostitute consents.
An alcohol drinker consents.
Apples and oranges.
Your analogy is rubbish.

Banning solves nothing.
Has your puritan thinking managed to cure these ills?
The answer is no.

It has succeeded in creating a hypocritical, criminal, corrupt society that covers a pile of excrement in a white sheet and calls it pure.
Prostitution and alcohol is rife, freely available and out of control in Pakistan. It is controlled by criminal mafias.
You are devoid of answers because you can't see past your own self piety.
Your assertion that people who want to see this being regulated by the state are somehow doing it because they believe that these things are right, proper and moral and want to indulge freely couldn't be further from the truth. These people are realists and see human nature for what it is. They also see what damage driving these things underground causes to the fabric of society. I don't doubt that you yourself and people who think like you mean well, but you have no answer to these problems because you cannot or are not prepared to think outside the box. More of the same isn't the answer. The Taliban when they were in power in Afghanistan couldn't stop prostitution. Because banning and force isn't and never has been a solution to anything.
Education and regulatory control is the way forward.

Man this guy longhorn is an absolute destroyer. Pdf consider him for your thinktank consulting. He has a moderate approach and a sound reasoning. He balances idealism with realism.