Bangladesh to China ordered 16 F-7BGI light fighter

[scholseys]

we need some missile defense systems to guarantee our national security, hope china makes them as clearly the ruskies wont sell them to us.

 

[kobiraaz]

we need some missile defense systems to guarantee our national security, hope china makes them as clearly the ruskies wont sell them to us.

India will not allow this... For this you have to get rid of Hasina to inhibit india's influence on our decision makers.. Even newdelhi panicked when c-802 was introduced in the navy!

 

[scholseys]

There is no point getting all these toys, we need to get some air defense systems to protect our sovereignty.

 

[Major Shaheb]

India will not allow this... For this you have to get rid of Hasina to inhibit india's influence on our decision makers.. Even newdelhi panicked when c-802 was introduced in the navy!

India panicked for two reasons mainly.

1. Govt. felt reluctant to inform them about the test fire.
2. Its range of 180+ Km is good enough to hit some important potential targets well within Indian boundary.

And it was C-802A.

 

[Major Shaheb]

mr.major 32 to 48 4th+++ cost 5bn$ and operational cost will be some few hundred millions $ every year . so how can an air force with small budget afford it ? i think current low price low operational cost fighters are best . your thoughts and dreams as patriotic Bangladeshi are well and i respect them but reality is there is no threat and there is no money for spent on fighters . best way is keep good relations with both neighbors and enjoy development rather then thinking abut world top expensive jets its my thoughts abut BD feel free to disagree .

Thank you for sharing your views Mr. Khan. I agree that if the cost is $5bln then I am dreaming. However, I was talking about 4+gen (for example: Mig-29SMT, JAS-39, F-16 C/D, Su-27SK etc.) and 4++ gen (for example: F-16 E/F, Su-30MK*, JAS-39NG, Mig-29MRCA etc.) but not 4+++ gen (for example: Mig-35, Su-35BM, F-15SE, EF-2000 etc.). According to recent pricing, the cost per aircraft comes something like following:

For 32 unit: (in 2011 Bln $)

Mig 29SMT : 1.12
Mig-29MRCA : 1.24
Su-30MK : 1.35
Su-30MK* : 1.76
F-16CD (blk 40/42) : 2.4
F-16CD (Blk 50/52) : 4.1
JAS-39 : 1.6
JAS-39NG : 2.3

Yes, if ordered 48 aircraft then for the non Russian aircraft it will cost $ 3.4 to 6.2 bln. If the govt plans to strict to Russian or with JAS-39C/D then they can manage that within budget.

 

[Imran Khan]

Thank you for sharing your views Mr. Khan. I agree that if the cost is $5bln then I am dreaming. However, I was talking about 4+gen (for example: Mig-29SMT, JAS-39, F-16 C/D, Su-27SK etc.) and 4++ gen (for example: F-16 E/F, Su-30MK*, JAS-39NG, Mig-29MRCA etc.) but not 4+++ gen (for example: Mig-35, Su-35BM, F-15SE, EF-2000 etc.). According to recent pricing, the cost per aircraft comes something like following:

For 32 unit: (in 2011 Bln $)

Mig 29SMT : 1.12
Mig-29MRCA : 1.24
Su-30MK : 1.35
Su-30MK* : 1.76
F-16CD (blk 40/42) : 2.4
F-16CD (Blk 50/52) : 4.1
JAS-39 : 1.6
JAS-39NG : 2.3

Yes, if ordered 48 aircraft then for the non Russian aircraft it will cost $ 3.4 to 6.2 bln. If the govt plans to strict to Russian or with JAS-39C/D then they can manage that within budget.

in that case i agree but still 4++ cost allot of money not only fighter there is huge cache of weapons supports spares and base for new fighter also ground equipment which lead it to near 5bn still its better if mig-29smt su-27 or jas gripen in small numbers like 18-24 is possible .and personally i don't believe in these unit costs because they are not include any thing .and yes if they go to 4+ or 4++ they should take out current whole fleet from service just get 3 types . first primary trainer 2nd jet trainer like K-8 L-15 or howks or any other and then those 4+ -4++ fighter sqns only . it will be healthy and easy to maintain but if they keep these horses along with them cost of maintain the fleet will go beyond the budget .

 

[Major Shaheb]

A report published on ASIAN DEFENSE NEWS in 2011:


Pakistani JF-17 A Thunder OR A Blunder

Pakistan has witnessed new defense acquisitions in this decade than any other, and in the center of it all is the new fighter which was designed by China with partial funding from Pakistan. It is formally known as JF-17 Thunder. When the fighter was in development, Pakistani online communities were jumping with excitement comparing it with its arch rival India’s modern combatants Su-30MKI, Mig-29S & Mirage-2000H. There were claims of it featuring western Radars and long range missiles, & Chinese ordering some due to its superior capabilities. But the reality is far from it.

China having spent significant amount of money into a fighter which it is never going to use, most probably forced Pakistan to accept its avionics to offset some its development costs. Chinese who are known for their self reliance first and quality next, are further downgrading JF-17s capabilities with their poorly copy-pirated avionics. Along with their dubious weapons, any chance of JF-17 maintaining BVR edge over its adversary’s front-line combatants, for the most part, is unlikely.

Even in close combat JF-17 lacks what it takes to win the fight. Its spine, & wings bearing resemblance(in wing twist & wing area) to a fighter which china knows inside out, the J-7, doesn’t have wing twist nor does it have enough area to provide a low wing loading. Its performance during low speeds and high alphas would be very dangerous for the pilot indeed. It has a Maximum G loading of only 8, as claimed by PAC. Its thrust to weight ratio is another negative point. When its arch rival, the Indian Air Force(IAF), was overtly critical of Tejas for having a low Thrust to Weight ratio, maybe they should have compared it with JF-17 which has even less, even with Emergency Thrust. Pakistan Aeronautical Complex(PAC) proudly displays the RD-93’s “Combat thrust with afterburner” as 19,200lbf, while the whole defense community knows RD-93’s thrust is 18,300lbf and the only real thrust increase was achieved with its new re-designed Sea Wasp RD-33MK engines- which has been explicitly stated by Klimov. However, Klimov’s RD-33 series 3(or series 2?), whose avatar is RD-93 with re-positioned Gear boxes, has a provision for emergency thrust which Klimov says can produce 8700kgf(~19200lbf) in their officially released document. They further state that as “Take-off emergency mode”. So the mentioned thrust can only be used during take-off where the Air is denser, and also only during emergency situations since it would seriously lower the engine’s lifespan. This is a far cry from PAC's “Combat thrust” claim. Why this is being stated is because, the engines(bought by the Chinese after pressurizing the Russians) are the only non-Chinese & non-Pakistani component, and even there they have lied about its capabilities. Hence the true, lower than published, specifications of Chinese and Pakistani components are open to any one’s guesses. In any case, the close combat capabilities of JF-17 is below average or average at best.

The next Achilles heal is JF-17’s speed. For a good interception, speed is an important criteria. However JF-17’s max speed is Mach 1.6 which is claimed by PAC. This indicates that JF-17 is draggier. When compared, their F-7s(Reverse engineered Mig-21s) have higher speed of mach 2+ with a lower thrust engine. The IAF fighters which it is going to face, all have speeds greater than the Thunder.

So why is Pakistan still inducting more and more of this fighter, which its critics increasingly call it Junk Fighter – 17 ? The answer may lie with Pakistan’s recent trauma & its psyche. Having sanctioned by the U.S, the star of their airforce, the F-16s were severally hit by lack of spares and most of the time grounded. The other 2 sources to procure modern Aircraft- Russia, have been sealed off due to the legacy of Soviet era friendship, current market in India & India’s pressure- and the other source, the European Union, for their extremely high costs. The third source, the Chinese, at that time were still flying their reverse engineered Mig-21s. In those circumstances, “Never again” was the motto of PAF and it instantly jumped into the project of further reversing the reverse engineered Mig-21, known as Super-7(a.k.a Super F-7) to obtain self reliance. The result of that project is the JF-17. So the decision was appropriate at that time, in those situations. However now with China having developed the J-10, and going by the recent reports of offering ToT(Transfer of Technology) to Pakistan, one wonders why are the Pakistanis still ordering 250 planes. Is the trauma of F-16 sanctions so high that they don’t even trust the Chinese? This can't be the case because they still need the Chinese to procure the RD-93 engines for them, even after the Chinese transfer all their associated JF-17 tech to PAC. So why...? The answer lies with their ego/psyche rather than the trauma. Unlike J-10, Pakistan shares copyright to JF-17 and that, for some weird reason, gives them something to celebrate about. This is strange for the reason, war machines are for fighting wars and achieving tactical & strategic objectives, not for gloating about who holds the copyrights. When JF-17 comes face to face with MKI or SMT, there won’t be much to celebrate about it, or the few millions if at all it earns though exports. In the end, it’s all about defending ones homeland from the enemy, and not copyrights.

 

[Imran Khan]

ASIAN DEFENSE NEWS BLOG is personal view of INDIAN blogger and this items discussed here 100s time nothing to do with this thread .simply edit your post and have a talk on BD needs and purchase .

 

[Major Sam]

WTF is with this Major Sahab ... u should be a PHD in trolling

 

[scholseys]

WTF is with this Major Sahab ... u should be a PHD in trolling

Relax he is just quoting an article.

 

[Avisheik]

India will not allow this... For this you have to get rid of Hasina to inhibit india's influence on our decision makers.. Even newdelhi panicked when c-802 was introduced in the navy!

Actually hasina buys more stuff for the military, in order to please them. Anyway the $800mil arms deal that may happen also includes SAMS

 

[Lighting_Fighter]

When are we getting the delivery of F-7s that was ordered?

 

[M_Saint]

[/B]

You are forgetting one fact that although BD has a small territory but within that small territory it has 15+ operational runways with airports. Even after that do you really need VTOL or STOL. I dont think so.

We have small budget, so we need to buy the most advanced aircraft, and equipment available. We do not need 100 JF-17 or FC-20. Rather we need 32-48 4+ or 4++ generation fighter aircraft like the Su-30 or JAS-39. I think we should go for twin engine aircraft for better performance and safety. Three to four multi-role squadron is good enough I think.

We should also maintain one manufacturer for fighter aircraft to cut operational cost. It would be even nicer if we could move into a network based force.

Do you have any idea how much more it will cost to modify f-7 to do STOL. Its not just landing gear my friend, it also need a new engine as F-7 has a one of the fastest landing speed and distance in the world. You probably would also require an arresting hook and mechanism on ground to stop the aircraft and that my friend is epic. With the cost required for that kind of modification, you can buy a full squadron of 2nd hand f-16 or Mig-29 i guess. And what good will it bring converting a stop-gap 3rd gen fighter when BAF considering them for CAS role.

Major Shaheb, are you for real? Do U have slightest idea about the targets of enemy's first blitz in air war? All the 15+ runways could be made non-functional even by cruise or ballistic missile strikes then where do you fly from? And the cost of arresting hook + ground mechanism would be epic? What are U smoking, BRO? Ask Sub or Erikson engineers about the cost of JAS Grippen's short take off features and U would find out that they haven't charged extra for South Africa or Chez's one. I'VE specifically mentioned about F-7 because its manufacturer is known as global cheap star in producing industrial goods. So, Chinese would deliver even by the fraction of the cost of Swedish if the case is made viable. BTW, did you hear PAF's JF-17 taking off of motor way? Does it show that Chinese are capable? They had a project called F-7MF, which didn't see light because JF-17 took its focus away. With the larger nose cone, customized long range AESA + SAR for making it net centric, Thirst Vectored engine along with its short takes off ability of 48 of it wouldn't cost as much as 16 MIG-29MRCA or SU-30MK throughout the life, let along Grippen NG or F-Sola EF. And once research is done, project is initiated and parts are made; other F-7's in BAF's inventory could also be upgraded to a level of Bison or better.

I exemplified F-7 because it was known as poor man F-Sola. As a point blank defence's AC, it's pretty good and with AWACS or net's support, it would take 5 times costlier AC than itself. Knowing budget constrain and being practical, I suggested for an AC with STOL/VTOL or short takes off feature because that would raise its survivality from the enemy's first few blitzes. All you have to camouflage it by few layers. Cost of Chinese RAM quoting or other stealthy ingredients would also be fraction of Rusky or Westerner's one. So, now do you find my rational or you think BD is super rich to go for F-22? BTW, why are you so allergic about JF-17? I'VE been following its evolution since 2005 and it has crossed all bumpy roads in such a tremendous pace to become a 4th Gen fighter, only astonishing would be suitable word to describe it. If F-7MF’s type is impossible then IMHO a customized JF-17 would be perfect for BAF's upper mid requirement.

 

[Imran Khan]

When are we getting the delivery of F-7s that was ordered?

wait few months dear its no corolla

 

[scholseys]

Buying jets are a big waste of money, we need SAMs