Bangladesh Navy indigenous Frigate development program.

[gslv mk3]

Says who?

Anyone with a bit of knowledge about these would tell you that. Though deluded Bangladeshi trolls (who makes ridiculous claims like Walton having Asia's biggest R&D center or Bangladesh having more cars than India) would think otherwise.

Project 17A Frigates come with almost the same weapon/sensor fit as Kolkata class destroyer, which is impressive for a frigate.

Not to mention the level of indigenization of Indian naval products itself is not high.

Says someone from a country which cannot produce steel plates for merchant ships.

We can make a light frigate class ship with almost entirely Indian weapon/sensor fit- Radars, Sonars, missiles, CMS included. A Naval SAM would also come soon.

A Burmese member could jump in and comment "our Kyan Sittha-class frigate is comparable to many frigates in armament & sensors", would India cancel the Russian ones and buy them instead?

Read what I wrote carefully idiot, I said P17A is comparable to many destroyers, not frigates.

Kyan Sittha-class frigate is way more advanced than any naval vessel Bangladesh have ever made.

Don't post those pics of Indian ships, they are eyesores.

Don't worry, I am only going to post pics of those good looking Bangladeshi corvette's/frigates.

Oops sorry, they don't exist !!!

A wannabe martial Indian troll?

Quite rich, coming from a Bangladeshi... Effeminate bunch who needed Indians to save their asses...after 3 million of their own have been slaughtered.

 

[Species]

Anyone with a bit of knowledge about these would tell you that. Though deluded Bangladeshi trolls (who makes ridiculous claims like Walton having Asia's biggest R&D center or Bangladesh having more cars than India) would think otherwise.

Project 17A Frigates come with almost the same weapon/sensor fit as Kolkata class destroyer, which is impressive for a frigate.



Says someone from a country which cannot produce steel plates for merchant ships.

We can make a light frigate class ship with almost entirely Indian weapon/sensor fit- Radars, Sonars, missiles, CMS included. A Naval SAM would also come soon.



Read what I wrote carefully idiot, I said P17A is comparable to many destroyers, not frigates.

Kyan Sittha-class frigate is way more advanced than any naval vessel Bangladesh have ever made.



Don't worry, I am only going to post pics of those good looking Bangladeshi corvette's/frigates.

Oops sorry, they don't exist !!!



Quite rich, coming from a Bangladeshi... Effeminate bunch who needed Indians to save their asses...after 3 million of their own have been slaughtered.

So as always you have just posted tons of girly chit-chat but failed to answer why India is buying Russian frigates if it has a good-enough technology.

Just proves my point of the sub-standard quality of Indian products.

Most of the Indian industries thrive on different tariffs and non-tariff barriers in trade. Defence industry, however, can't get away with it.

 

[gslv mk3]

So as always you have just posted tons of girly chit-chat but failed to answer why India is buying Russian frigates if it has a good-enough technology.

Just proves my point of the sub-standard quality of Indian products.

Of course you can expect Idiots (you know, of the Walton-R&D-largest-in-Asia kind) to come up with illogical conclusions... I seriously regret wasting time for an idiot.

Talwars are not capable as P17A but are cheaper to procure & operate than a pseudo-destroyer.

Also there is the fact that that two of the hulls were already in advanced stage of construction & IN operates 6 vessels of that type.

Most of the Indian industries thrive on different tariffs and non-tariff barriers in trade. Defence industry, however, can't get away with it.

Comparing RMG exports to defense now ? highly intelligent.

 

[Species]

Talwars are not capable as P17A but are cheaper to procure & operate than a pseudo-destroyer.

So? You can put a ICBM on a floating steel sheet and claim it be the most capable naval vessel ever but that doesn't make it an 'effective' vessel.

You are still spending billions of dollars on import of naval vessels, that's enough to justify Indian products and technology are far from reliable.

 

[gslv mk3]

So? You can put a ICBM on a floating steel sheet and claim it be the most capable naval vessel ever but that doesn't make it an 'effective' vessel.

That's the kind of reply I expect from a Walton-R&D-largest-in-Asia kind of idiot.

And BTW retard, a country capable of developing an ICBM on it's own would be capable of building it's own naval vessels.

The capability (including the weapons & the sensors) of Kolkata/ Vizag/ P17A is out there for everyone to see.

It's not ''BD will get 6000 tonne frigate with 64 VLS'' kind of daydreams.

And anyone with a working internet connection can work out the cost of each project.

Talwar ~500 million per ship https://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/india-clears-way-for-2-2-billion-frigates-deal-with-russia/amp_articleshow/65835654.cms

P17A- ~$1 billion per ship

https://www.dnaindia.com/business/r...o-deliver-kavaratti-to-navy-next-year-2663959

You are still spending billions of dollars on import of naval vessels, that's enough to justify Indian products and technology are far from reliable.

'"Indians maybe spending billions building an aircraft carrier, 4 DDGs, 7 FFGs, 3 SSBNs, 6 SSNs & a missile instrumentation ship on their own, but their technology is far from reliable"...

Typical of anyone from a 2 patent per year LDC.

 

[Species]

That's the kind of reply I expect from a Walton-R&D-largest-in-Asia kind of idiot.

And BTW retard, a country capable of developing an ICBM on it's own would be capable of building it's own naval vessels.

The capability (including the weapons & the sensors) of Kolkata/ Vizag/ P17A is out there for everyone to see.

It's not ''BD will get 6000 tonne frigate with 64 VLS'' kind of daydreams.



'"Indians maybe spending billions building an aircraft carrier, 4 DDGs, 7 FFGs, 3 SSBNs, 6 SSNs & a missile instrumentation ship on their own, but their technology is far from reliable"...

Typical of anyone from a 2 patent per year LDC.

So other than self-defining name-calling, off-topic remarks, you haven't posted a single logical answer as to why India still spends billions of dollars on import of defence technology and products if it claims its products to be of sufficient quality.

The fact remains, Indian military is still largely a user of imported technology and products. Since, India still relies on import, it's only natural its products are of inferior quality and will be ignored by foreign customers.

 

[gslv mk3]

you haven't posted a single logical answer

Why India bought 4 Talwar class have been elaborated in post #604. It's not my fault if your feeble brain cannot comprehend it.

And if you think Indian Navy buying 4X Talwar class for $2 billion (while concurrently spending $12 billion for 11 Frigates/Destroyers built in Indian yards) indicates some sort of 'unreliability, that's just your delusion.

Since, India still relies on import

We are making our own warships, strategic & tactical missiles, Radars, Sonars, EW systems, helicopters, torpedos, military combat/logistics/engineering vehicles & artillery. Which have all won orders worth billions.

We have access to foreign weapon systems (excluding strategic stuff) & is not exactly limited by a small budget budget unlike some LDC.

So basically the quality & capability of Indian weapon systems can be assessed when Indian military places orders worth billions for them despite that.

BTW our Sonars & torpedoes arm Myanmar's frigates... Don't cry about it though.

 

[Bilal9]

So other than self-defining name-calling, off-topic remarks, you haven't posted a single logical answer as to why India still spends billions of dollars on import of defence technology and products if it claims its products to be of sufficient quality.

The fact remains, Indian military is still largely a user of imported technology and products. Since, India still relies on import, it's only natural its products are of inferior quality and will be ignored by foreign customers.

@Species bhai - I salute you for keeping your sharafat, decency and demeanor upright in your replies to this troll. Their aukat is clearly visible in their abusive remarks and lack of logic and proof.

PS: Don't post those pics of Indian ships, they are eyesores.

So true!

Ugliest (and dated) design compared to Western ones, even those fielded by Singaporean and Malaysian navies...

 

[Flynn Swagmire]

Ugliest (and dated) design compared to Western ones, even those fielded by Singaporean and Malaysian navies...

Indian ship designs might not be as polished looking as western ship designs. But, they do fulfill Indian requirements...

 

[Bilal9]

You don't need to have latest brand new frigates to comment on naval technology.

India itself doesn't trust its own substandard technology as proven by its import of frigates from Russia, how do you expect others to rely on your technology?

Bhai look at the Admiral Grigorovich design which is an improved Krivak III design. And look at the discounted Indian crap with slapped on overpriced Israeli sensors that the troll posted earlier. They all use the same identical hulls. So much for 'designed in Endeya'. The whole structure is Russian designed.

 

[gslv mk3]

Bhai look at the Admiral Grigorovich design which is an improved Krivak III design. And look at the discounted Indian crap with slapped on overpriced Israeli sensors that the troll posted earlier. They all use the same identical hulls. So much for 'designed in Endeya'. The whole structure is Russian designed.

Still repeating the same lies ?? @Nilgiri

P17 basic design was completed in 1994.

Deal for modification & construction of Krivak III class as Talwar class for Indian navy was signed only in 1997.

So how did Indian naval designers copy a vessel which was not even designed in 1994 ?

And identical hulls ??? Hmm, let's see.

Shivalik Class

Length: 142.5 m (468 ft)
Beam: 16.9 m (55 ft)
Draught: 4.5 m (15 ft)

Talwar class

Length: 124.8 m (409 ft 5 in)
Beam: 15.2 m (49 ft 10 in)
Draught: 4.2 m (13 ft 9 in)

They look absolutely identical... See..

Krivak class

Shivalik Class

And look at the discounted Indian crap

Look who is an Indian stealth frigate crap, someone from a country which operates second hand USCGS cutters & 1970's Chinese corvette's as 'frigates'.

It'll take you two decades to acquire, let alone build something like that.

Ugliest (and dated) design compared to Western ones, even those fielded by Singaporean and Malaysian navies...

Indian designs are so ugly & dated, just like how all those Bajaj motorcycles are ugly & dated compared to modern 'Baalton' motorcycle designs.

See...how ugly & dated Indian destroyers are.

Compared with modern Bangladeshi design...oops Chinese design.. It might even win some beauty pageant.

lack of logic and proof.

Repeating ''Indian ships are unreliable'' like a broken record is called logic.

Just like how your claims of Bangladeshis buying better cars than India (when the total number of cars sold annually in ''BD is just 20,000) are logical.

Does the word logic have any different meaning in that swampland of yours ?

 

[Species]

Bhai look at the Admiral Grigorovich design which is an improved Krivak III design. And look at the discounted Indian crap with slapped on overpriced Israeli sensors that the troll posted earlier. They all use the same identical hulls. So much for 'designed in Endeya'. The whole structure is Russian designed.

It's known to all the level indigenization of Indian defence equipment is extremely low no matter what they claim. Hence, their products come with enough strings attached because of the borrowed technology they use.

 

[BanglarBagh]

Still repeating the same lies ?? @Nilgiri

P17 basic design was completed in 1994.

Deal for modification & construction of Krivak III class as Talwar class for Indian navy was signed only in 1997.

So how did Indian naval designers copy a vessel which was not even designed in 1994 ?

And identical hulls ??? Hmm, let's see.

Shivalik Class

Length: 142.5 m (468 ft)
Beam: 16.9 m (55 ft)
Draught: 4.5 m (15 ft)

Talwar class

Length: 124.8 m (409 ft 5 in)
Beam: 15.2 m (49 ft 10 in)
Draught: 4.2 m (13 ft 9 in)

They look absolutely identical... See..

Krivak class

View attachment 503839

Shivalik Class

View attachment 503851

View attachment 503840



Look who is an Indian stealth frigate crap, someone from a country which operates second hand USCGS cutters & 1970's Chinese corvette's as 'frigates'.

It'll take you two decades to acquire, let alone build something like that.



Indian designs are so ugly & dated, just like how all those Bajaj motorcycles are ugly & dated compared to modern 'Baalton' motorcycle designs.

See...how ugly & dated Indian destroyers are.

View attachment 503842

Compared with modern Bangladeshi design...oops Chinese design.. It might even win some beauty pageant.

View attachment 503843



Repeating ''Indian ships are unreliable'' like a broken record is called logic.

Just like how your claims of Bangladeshis buying better cars than India (when the total number of cars sold annually in ''BD is just 20,000) are logical.

Does the word logic have any different meaning in that swampland of yours ?

Talwar Class is a modified Krivak so Russian design and accessories. Which is the indegenised part in this frigate?

Shivalik Class pride of make in India projects and yet,
Powerplant: Pielstick 16 PA6 STC(French), GE LM2500(USA)
Armament: Barak1 SAM(Israeli), Shtil-1(Russian), [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/3M-54_Klub']Klub(Russian), [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BrahMos']BrahMos(Russian onix copy assembled by India), [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oto_Melara_76_mm']OTO Melara 76 mm(Italian), [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-630']AK-630(Russian), DTA-53-956(Russian), [URL='https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RBU-6000']RBU-6000 (RPK-8)(Russian).[/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL][/URL]

The level of indegenisation amazes me unless you consider all those countries far away states of India. And for Brahmos you would argue it's a joint venture between Russia and India so it qualifies as a indegenised platform. Then again you guys mock Pakistan for JF-17 since it's a joint venture hence not indegenised enough. Get the point?
Anyway the topic was I guess why BD doesn't look to India for it's frigate program. The answer is given in the contents of my post. Even after that if you argue India has the best tech to offer BN then that just means India will play the middle man (aka dalal) to get those foreign tech for BN. The answer is no thank you if we decide to get them we will get them directly from the manufacturer not from a dalal.

Thank you!!!

 

[gslv mk3]

Talwar Class is a modified Krivak so Russian design and accessories. Which is the indegenised part in this frigate?

Yes, Indian naval designers used a time machine in 1994-95 to go to the future & copy the design of a Russian frigate which was designed after 1997.

And even then, the hull-form is different from the Talwar...

Can't expect better logic from 2-USPTO-
patent- a-year LDC folks.

Here is an excerpt from the official history of Indian Navy, written by Vice Admiral GM Hiranandani. He quotes Rear Admiral Vaidyanathan, Project Director for P17 Frigate.

"At the same time, the design team set to work on developing the sleek lines of the new hull form. While a new BMT software became available sometime later for the hull lines, much work had already been progressed by then, using the naval architect’s traditional battens and lead weights, to evolve the lines of Project 17. Even though this old and traditional method was moving towards extinction with the birth of the Project 17 hull form, it did give that drawing board flexibility to tweak the lines using the drawing office expertise still available for this kind of specialist design work. The concept design options were presented to the naval staff in the first quarter of 1994 and were approved within few days.

Model Tests.

Having developed the hull form and preliminary propeller design, hydrodynamic model tests were ordered at the Netherlands model test basin-MARIN.

In a slight departure from earlier designs, a conscious decision was made in the very beginng into give a relatively sharp turn to the hull sections around the bilge for improved roll damping and have a generally flared hull form for increased stealth and high water plane area for good sea keeping. The model tests of the new hull form began in July 1995. As the project officer of P17, I was deputed to MARIN to participate in the tests and refined the appendages design based on test results. The model tests showed excellent hull performance. The powering results were within 2½% of DND’s predictions.

The resistance of the appendages was the lowest that one could achieve owing to the designed shaft line with lol rake and the flow adapted orientation of the shaft brackets. The sea keeping performance was seen to be exceptionally good meeting the stringent performance envisaged in the Staff Requirements. The roll performance was also exceptionally good and even better compared to some previous larger designs."

From "Transition to Guardianship-The Indian Navy 1991–2000" (2009)

But we should believe some butt-hurt Bangladeshi troll than the very project director of P17 frigate program @Nilgiri....

Shivalik Class pride of make in India projects and yet

I would say that is Project 15A/B destroyers.

Maybe you didn't knew that Shivalik Class has been superseded by Next gen P17A with following systems.

Sensors and processing systems:

• IAI EL/M-2248 MF-STAR S-band AESA multi-function radar (being localised by BEL)

• Unknown VSR (BEL-SAAB JV maybe)

• BEL HUMSA-NG bow sonar (indigenous)

• BEL EMCCA combat management system (indigenous)

Electronic warfare
& decoys:

• BEL Ajanta EW Suite (indigenous)

• NSTL Maareech ATDS (indigenous)

• Kavach chaff decoy system (indigenous)

Armament:

• 4 × 8-cell VLS, for a total of 32 Barak 8 missiles (Joint Venture)

• 1 × 8-cell UVLM for 8 BrahMos missiles (Joint Venture)

• 1 × 76 mm gun Oto Melara SRGM (produced at BHEL Haridwar)

• 2 × AK-630 CIWS (made at OFB)

• 4 × 533 mm Torpedo tubes (indigenous, made by L&T firing Indigenous torpedos)

• 2 × IRL anti-submarine rocket launchers (localised, made by L&T)

And more of it is coming... Including Desi equivalent of VL-ASROC.

Shivalik uses licence produced SEMT Pielstick designs (Kirloskar) .So does Chinese Type 054A.

Similar story with the 76 mm gun with Chinese & Indian frigates.

What's the difference here ?

Even after that if you argue India has the best tech to offer BN then that just means India will play the middle man (aka dalal) to get those foreign tech for BN.

This is a Korean frigate your navy uses, tell me about the Korean designed weapon/sensor systems used here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BNS_Bangabandhu

We are have already exported 105 metre long OPV, 2300 tonne Offshore Patrol Vessel to Sri Lanka.

http://www.colombopage.com/archive_18A/Mar26_1522077053CH.php

And we are competing for global naval tenders with our designs.

GRSE unveils design proposal for Brazilian corvette programme

Nothing stopped us from selling our Sonars & torpedoes to Myanmar.

https://www.indiatoday.in/pti-feed/...o-to-be-exported-to-myanmar-896368-2017-03-24

And pray tell me, how many countries can build marine propulsion systems ?

GTs ? US, UK, Ukraine. China uses localised Ukrainian designs & Russians are struggling to develop a replacement for Ukrainian GTs.

Low speed diesel engines ? We already have JVs to manufacture them in India.

Rolls-Royce and Goa Shipyard Limited agree to manufacture MTU engines in India

Same with gearboxes- Elecon/ Walchandnagar/ Kirloskar Pneumatic makes them.

We can also make 4D Active phased array for light frigate application almost fully indigenously (starting from GaAs /GaN MMICs)- land based versions already exist. We have our own naval radars already in service (on Kamorta class).

So basically we can provide our own designs, steel, radars, Sonars, EW suite, license produced engines, torpedos & launchers, missiles, communication systems, CIWS, gearboxes, auxillary systems.

Nothing different from BNS Bangabandhu deal.

BrahMos(Russian onix copy assembled by India)

Brahmos is an Indo Russian JV, based on Yakhont's propulsion system & airframe. We have developed our own systems for it & manufacture the missiles in India with 70-80% indigenous content.

As I said earlier we are not Bangladesh that doesn't have a single certified aerospace vendor.

Meanwhile enjoy this pic of Indian developed X-band seeker used in Brahmos.

It's known to all the level indigenization of Indian defence equipment is extremely low no matter what they claim.

Is this all you have to say after running away ??

 

[BanglarBagh]

Yes, Indian naval designers used a time machine in 1994-95 to go to the future & copy the design of a Russian frigate which was designed after 1997.

And even then, the hull-form is different from the Talwar...

Can't expect better logic from 2-USPTO-
patent- a-year LDC folks.

Here is an excerpt from the official history of Indian Navy, written by Vice Admiral GM Hiranandani. He quotes Rear Admiral Vaidyanathan, Project Director for P17 Frigate.

"At the same time, the design team set to work on developing the sleek lines of the new hull form. While a new BMT software became available sometime later for the hull lines, much work had already been progressed by then, using the naval architect’s traditional battens and lead weights, to evolve the lines of Project 17. Even though this old and traditional method was moving towards extinction with the birth of the Project 17 hull form, it did give that drawing board flexibility to tweak the lines using the drawing office expertise still available for this kind of specialist design work. The concept design options were presented to the naval staff in the first quarter of 1994 and were approved within few days.

Model Tests.

Having developed the hull form and preliminary propeller design, hydrodynamic model tests were ordered at the Netherlands model test basin-MARIN.

In a slight departure from earlier designs, a conscious decision was made in the very beginng into give a relatively sharp turn to the hull sections around the bilge for improved roll damping and have a generally flared hull form for increased stealth and high water plane area for good sea keeping. The model tests of the new hull form began in July 1995. As the project officer of P17, I was deputed to MARIN to participate in the tests and refined the appendages design based on test results. The model tests showed excellent hull performance. The powering results were within 2½% of DND’s predictions.

The resistance of the appendages was the lowest that one could achieve owing to the designed shaft line with lol rake and the flow adapted orientation of the shaft brackets. The sea keeping performance was seen to be exceptionally good meeting the stringent performance envisaged in the Staff Requirements. The roll performance was also exceptionally good and even better compared to some previous larger designs."

From "Transition to Guardianship-The Indian Navy 1991–2000" (2009)

But we should believe some butt-hurt Bangladeshi troll than the very project director of P17 frigate program @Nilgiri....



I would say that is Project 15A/B destroyers.

Maybe you didn't knew that Shivalik Class has been superseded by Next gen P17A with following systems.

Sensors and processing systems:

• IAI EL/M-2248 MF-STAR S-band AESA multi-function radar (being localised by BEL)

• Unknown VSR (BEL-SAAB JV maybe)

• BEL HUMSA-NG bow sonar (indigenous)

• BEL EMCCA combat management system (indigenous)

Electronic warfare
& decoys:

• BEL Ajanta EW Suite (indigenous)

• NSTL Maareech ATDS (indigenous)

• Kavach chaff decoy system (indigenous)

Armament:

• 4 × 8-cell VLS, for a total of 32 Barak 8 missiles (Joint Venture)

• 1 × 8-cell UVLM for 8 BrahMos missiles (Joint Venture)

• 1 × 76 mm gun Oto Melara SRGM (produced at BHEL Haridwar)

• 2 × AK-630 CIWS (made at OFB)

• 4 × 533 mm Torpedo tubes (indigenous, made by L&T firing Indigenous torpedos)

• 2 × IRL anti-submarine rocket launchers (localised, made by L&T)

And more of it is coming... Including Desi equivalent of VL-ASROC.

Shivalik uses licence produced SEMT Pielstick designs (Kirloskar) .So does Chinese Type 054A.

Similar story with the 76 mm gun with Chinese & Indian frigates.

What's the difference here ?



This is a Korean frigate your navy uses, tell me about the Korean designed weapon/sensor systems used here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BNS_Bangabandhu

We are have already exported 105 metre long OPV, 2300 tonne Offshore Patrol Vessel to Sri Lanka.

View attachment 504106

http://www.colombopage.com/archive_18A/Mar26_1522077053CH.php

And we are competing for global naval tenders with our designs.

GRSE unveils design proposal for Brazilian corvette programme

Nothing stopped us from selling our Sonars & torpedoes to Myanmar.

https://www.indiatoday.in/pti-feed/...o-to-be-exported-to-myanmar-896368-2017-03-24

And pray tell me, how many countries can build marine propulsion systems ?

GTs ? US, UK, Ukraine. China uses localised Ukrainian designs & Russians are struggling to develop a replacement for Ukrainian GTs.

Low speed diesel engines ? We already have JVs to manufacture them in India.

Rolls-Royce and Goa Shipyard Limited agree to manufacture MTU engines in India

Same with gearboxes- Elecon/ Walchandnagar/ Kirloskar Pneumatic makes them.

We can also make 4D Active phased array for light frigate application almost fully indigenously (starting from GaAs /GaN MMICs)- land based versions already exist. We have our own naval radars already in service (on Kamorta class).

View attachment 504091

So basically we can provide our own designs, steel, radars, Sonars, EW suite, license produced engines, torpedos & launchers, missiles, communication systems, CIWS, gearboxes, auxillary systems.

Nothing different from BNS Bangabandhu deal.



Brahmos is an Indo Russian JV, based on Yakhont's propulsion system & airframe. We have developed our own systems for it & manufacture the missiles in India with 70-80% indigenous content.

As I said earlier we are not Bangladesh that doesn't have a single certified aerospace vendor.

Meanwhile enjoy this pic of Indian developed X-band seeker used in Brahmos.

View attachment 504093



Is this all you have to say after running away ??

Well as expected you didn't get the point I was trying to make. Did I say India doesn't have any indegenised systems or platforms? However, can you say the frigates mentioned above are fully indegenous Indian platform with so many joint ventures and imported systems? You can't, can you? For indegenisation IN is first buying these systems from various sources and then implementing research and developments on those systems and platforms. IMO this is the way to go. In the same sense why can't BN do the same? Why does BN has to look to India for help as mentioned in some op of this thread when India itself does not have 100% indegenisation?

As for BN it's trying to get the best out of small joint venture platforms like lpc and corvette. Also now trying to get a joint venture frigate program. These are certainly small strides but nonetheless an initiative towards a positive outcome. But all you do is come to this section of the forum to troll and mock our efforts at the same time bragging how great India is. That just shows a superiority complex which is in fact another form of inferiority complex.