Bangladesh begins construction of two large warships

[Bilal9]

Yah wiki in once place stated they already had a full fledged type 730 CIWS installed...and not just one but two.

Anybody can write WIKI content - it is not reliable information...

 

[Arthur]

Bro the wiki info is not correct we better not rely much on wiki LOL

Can such systems (CIWS + FCR) be retrofitted at some point in future?

Yah wiki in once place stated they already had a full fledged type 730 CIWS installed...and not just one but two.

Anybody can write WIKI content - it is not reliable information...

Seriously,wiki can be a weed plantation sometimes.Even one type 730 would be an overkill in my book,let alone two.A singe pair of Ak-630 derivatives would be enough.
And as I mentioned there is no CIWs installed on this boats right this moment.But they can easily retrofit them with CIWS on a later date.maybe many people don't know but there is a different project to equip BN ships with CIWS.Under this project all medium and large warships (except the Korean classes) in BN inventory will be equipped with appropriate CIWS platforms.
And BN has plans to adopt this same platforms for many coastal and littoral duties,Weapons surely can vary for different roles and duties.

 

[Penguin]

Bro the wiki info is not correct we better not rely much on wiki LOL

Many wiki's are perfectly usable (so long as they are properly documented), I am a great fan.

Yah wiki in once place stated they already had a full fledged type 730 CIWS installed...and not just one but two.

Neither the wiki on the Durjoy class, nor the pages on the individual craft mention Type 730
Not any less reliable than e.g.
Bangladesh Navy Large Patrol Vessel BNS Durjoy ~ Bangladesh Defence

CIWS is a term that has many confused. In a broad sense, it is any weapon system for close in (air) defence. This can be missile or gun or combination. In the narrow sense, it specifically is a last ditch (and hence typically very short range) anti-antiship missile system. As such, out of necessity, its operation is fully automated from detection to tracking to engagement and kill e.g. Goalkeeper, Phalanx, Kashtan, Barak, RAM. According to the last definition, it is questionable is the AK630 is eligible for this title.

This has the Type 730 reference
List of ships of the Bangladesh Navy | Project Gutenberg Self-Publishing - eBooks | Read eBooks online
and List of ships of the Bangladesh Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

According to: DEFENSE STUDIES: Type 730 : China's CIWS

It weighs around 8 tons, which is lighter than a AK630 which is around 9 tons.

Kashtan is a dual gun beast, its going to be twice the weight or so of Type 730.

EDIT: NVM I think we are talking about the AK-306 630 derivative...which is around 1 ton for light craft. Makes sense.

AK630 does not weigh 9 tons.

AK-306 (empty): 2,425 lbs. (1,100 kg)
AK-306 (with ammo and control systems): 3,594 lbs. (1,630 kg)

AK-630 (empty): 4,079 lbs. (1,850 kg)
AK-630 (with ammo): 4,226 lbs (1,918 kg)
AK-630 (with [ammo and] control systems): 20,093 lbs. (9,114 kg)

AK-630M1-2 (empty): 5,512 lbs. (2,500 kg)
AK-630M1-2 (with ammo and control systems): 26,056 (11,819 kg)

Russia / USSR 30 mm/54 (1.2") AK-630

For the control systems, they count2 gun mounts plus the weight of an MR-123 as well as a control console and an optical ringsight.
MR-123 weight is approx 2400kg
2 AK630 gun mounts with ammo = 3800kg
Ringsight 450kg
That's about 6,25 tons, without a console and other below deck equipment.
BAGIRA MR-123-02/3 Multipurpose Naval Artillery Fire Control System - Concern Morinsis-Agat JSC
MR-123-02ts SHIPBORNE ARTILLERY FIRE CONTROL | Russian Military Analysis
Naval Guns

For the AK306, a large part of the additional weight is the optical sight (see pic in post 51)

 

[Bilal9]

Many wiki's are perfectly usable (so long as they are properly documented), I am a great fan.


Neither the wiki on the Durjoy class, nor the pages on the individual craft mention Type 730
Not any less reliable than e.g.
Bangladesh Navy Large Patrol Vessel BNS Durjoy ~ Bangladesh Defence

CIWS is a term that has many confused. In a broad sense, it is any weapon system for close in (air) defence. This can be missile or gun or combination. In the narrow sense, it specifically is a last ditch (and hence typically very short range) anti-antiship missile system. As such, out of necessity, its operation is fully automated from detection to tracking to engagement and kill e.g. Goalkeeper, Phalanx, Kashtan, Barak, RAM. According to the last definition, it is questionable is the AK630 is eligible for this title.

This has the Type 730 reference
List of ships of the Bangladesh Navy | Project Gutenberg Self-Publishing - eBooks | Read eBooks online
and List of ships of the Bangladesh Navy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


AK630 does not weigh 9 tons.


Russia / USSR 30 mm/54 (1.2") AK-630

For the control systems, they count2 gun mounts plus the weight of an MR-123 as well as a control console and an optical ringsight.
MR-123 weight is approx 2400kg
2 AK630 gun mounts with ammo = 3800kg
Ringsight 450kg
That's about 6,25 tons, without a console and other below deck equipment.
BAGIRA MR-123-02/3 Multipurpose Naval Artillery Fire Control System - Concern Morinsis-Agat JSC
MR-123-02ts SHIPBORNE ARTILLERY FIRE CONTROL | Russian Military Analysis
Naval Guns

For the AK306, a large part of the additional weight is the optical sight (see pic in post 51)

Thanks for your comments

The biggest ship to have AK630s (AK306) is I believe the SLAVA class Cruiser at 12,000 tons. It had six of them all around the ship (see immediate image below). It is by the way second only in size to the Nuclear powered Pyotr Veliky (KIROV class guided missile cruiser) which at 28,000 tons is the largest guided missile cruiser in the world. But the KIROV class armed with the Kashtan CIWS system and not the AK306. Nice way to intimidate an adversary. God bless the Russians.

Here's a picture of the Pyotr Veliky - my favorite ship . Can you say 'mother of all Battle-cruisers' ?

 

[Nilgiri]

Thanks for your comments

The biggest ship to have AK630s (AK306) is I believe the SLAVA class Cruiser at 12,000 tons. It had six of them all around the ship (see immediate image below). It is by the way second only in size to the Nuclear powered Pyotr Veliky (KIROV class guided missile cruiser) which at 28,000 tons is the largest guided missile cruiser in the world. But the KIROV class armed with the Kashtan CIWS system and not the AK306. Nice way to intimidate an adversary. God bless the Russians.

Here's a picture of the Pyotr Veliky - my favorite ship . Can you say 'mother of all Battle-cruisers' ?

Cue the hunt for red october theme

 

[Bilal9]

Cue the hunt for red october theme

Very appropo

Seriously,wiki can be a weed plantation sometimes.Even one type 730 would be an overkill in my book,let alone two.A singe pair of Ak-630 derivatives would be enough.
And as I mentioned there is no CIWs installed on this boats right this moment.But they can easily retrofit them with CIWS on a later date.maybe many people don't know but there is a different project to equip BN ships with CIWS.Under this project all medium and large warships (except the Korean classes) in BN inventory will be equipped with appropriate CIWS platforms.
And BN has plans to adopt this same platforms for many coastal and littoral duties,Weapons surely can vary for different roles and duties.

For the time being - handheld MANPADs can suffice I guess. A lot of smaller cash-strapped navies use MANPADs for this purpose.

 

[Nilgiri]

A MANPAD is a poor substitute for a CIWS. Just think of reaction times etc...

Though i guess with a sub 1000-ton boat, its not the highest priority for last ditch suvival capability if you aren't putting a CIWS on it in the first place.

How many Durjoys is B'desh planning and does it have a successor class already in the works at some level?

 

[Penguin]

A MANPAD is a poor substitute for a CIWS. Just think of reaction times etc...

Though i guess with a sub 1000-ton boat, its not the highest priority for last ditch suvival capability if you aren't putting a CIWS on it in the first place.

How many Durjoys is B'desh planning and does it have a successor class already in the works at some level?

Depends. A Mandad missile well serve in a usefull CIWS capacity provided it is employed in a remote control mount like the French Sandral or Simbad-RC, the Russian Gibka, or US Sea Scorpion 2

 

[Nilgiri]

Depends. A Mandad missile well serve in a usefull CIWS capacity provided it is employed in a remote control mount like the French Sandral or Simbad-RC, the Russian Gibka, or US Sea Scorpion 2

Yah he is talking handheld though.

A remote mount is a different story....because you can install a CIWS if you have that luxury of room/integration at that point too.

 

[Penguin]

Thanks for your comments

The biggest ship to have AK630s (AK306) is I believe the SLAVA class Cruiser at 12,000 tons. It had six of them all around the ship (see immediate image below). It is by the way second only in size to the Nuclear powered Pyotr Veliky (KIROV class guided missile cruiser) which at 28,000 tons is the largest guided missile cruiser in the world. But the KIROV class armed with the Kashtan CIWS system and not the AK306. Nice way to intimidate an adversary. God bless the Russians.

Here's a picture of the Pyotr Veliky - my favorite ship . Can you say 'mother of all Battle-cruisers' ?

Kirov class:
8 ×AK-630 six-barreled Gatling 30 mm/L60 PD guns on Ushakov, Lazarev
6 × CADS-N-1 Kashtan gun/missile system on Nakhimov, Pyotr Velikiy

All Kiev class aviation capable cruisers had 8 × AK-630 30mm (4 pairs). The Kuznetsov class aviation capable cruisers originally have 8 Kashtan CIWS mounts plus 6 AK630 AA guns (a port and a starboard pair amidship, plus one on each side of the stern)

 

[Penguin]

Yah he is talking handheld though.

A remote mount is a different story....because you can install a CIWS if you have that luxury of room/integration at that point too.

Gibka takes less space than an AK630

For size reference, check atop the starboard corner bridge of the Talwar frigate, there you have an optical system associated with the Shtil SAM. That optical system is the basis for Gibka. You find these on Sovremenny as well.

 

[Penguin]

Tyrkey make a pair of nice compact naval pedestal mounted Stinger systems

BORA - Naval Pedestal Mounted Stinger System (deck monted)
Air and Missile Defense Systems | Capabilities | ASELSAN

And with e.g. Rafael's Typhoon Overhead Weapon Station you can combine light cannon and MANPAD on a single mount, combined Manpad and decoys or choose all-gun or all-missile outfits.
http://www.rafael.co.il/Marketing/351-1034-en/Marketing.aspx

 

[Nilgiri]

Pretty neat systems. Well looks like there are plenty of compact options available for the Durjoy if B'desh wants them at a later date.

 

[Arthur]

A MANPAD is a poor substitute for a CIWS. Just think of reaction times etc...

Though i guess with a sub 1000-ton boat, its not the highest priority for last ditch survival capability if you aren't putting a CIWS on it in the first place.

How many Durjoys is B'desh planning and does it have a successor class already in the works at some level?

Eight.Two already in service,two under construction,4 more planned.Its the first batch.There has a plan to acquire a second batch of eight by 2025.

 

[Ideas_R_Bulletproof]

well, I'm at a loss regarding the number of techno comments in this thread... I would leave those details to experts...

but what I'm concerned with is that such abundance of systems and weapons are producing a lot of tactical generals, who are more involved into technicalities rather than strategy.... I haven't seen anyone questioning the deliberate dissimilarity between Azmat-class and Durjoy-class.... the basis of those two classes are not the same, which seems to have avoided everyone's attention.... this resulted in unnecessary debate on weapons configuration.... but none talked about the significant design differences that makes Durjoy-class more seaworthy than Azmat-class...

Azmat-class is an offensive platform with longer-range missiles, whereas Durjoy-class is a flexible design with options for wartime roles as deep-sea escorts... the two ships' design realities differ in terms of their practical operational areas - Arabian Sea and the Bay of Bengal.... a ship's roles decide how it should look like and geopolitics decides which weapons systems seem more fit on them...