Bangladesh Air Force buys J-10C fighters, K-8W trainers from China

[Avicenna]

Chengdu J-10 vs F/A-18EF Super Hornet

1. Glad to see that lot more older American fighter is better than Chinese new one… Agree on BVR ratings but I think F-18 SH also deserve rating “excellent” like other aircraft: Rafale, Typhooon, Su-30MKI… It was one old but excellent fighter…

2. J-10 will outperform Super Hornet in BVR also, PL-12 missile is better than US AIM-120 and also J-10 radar is good as American APG-79… Also J-10 has better service ceiling so it can attack from top.

3. DO not underestimate Chinese airplanes, they use technology and materials as Russians and some western countries… Lot of parts for western fighters were produced in China…

J-10 vs F-18E Super Hornet Flight Cost Per Hour

Overall and BVR ratings

CATEGORY CHENGDU J-10 F/A-18E/F SUPER HORNET
BVR Rating 75% 83%
Armament 7.5/10 7.9/10
Technology 7.5/10 8.9/10
Avionics 8.0/10 9.0/10
Maneuverability 8.6/10 7.8/10
Rate of Climb max. 300 m/s – 60k ft/min max. 228 m/s – 44k ft/min
Thrust/Weight 1.08 1.03
Service Ceiling 18 km – 59k ft 15 km – 50k ft
Speed 2.00 Mach 1.80 Mach
Fuel Economy 0.76 km/l – 1.79 NM/gallon 0.60 km/l – 1.21 NM/gallon
Unit Cost 35.000.000 USD 80.000.000 USD
Overall Rating very good very good


BVR (Beyond Visual Range) Ratings

CATEGORY CHENGDU J-10 F/A-18E/F SUPER HORNET
BVR AAM missile PL-12 AAM AIM-120 AMRAAM
AAM origin China USA
Year in 2002 in 1997
Range (mile) 62 45
Range (km) 100 75
Speed (mph) 2640 2640



Speed (km/h) 4248 4248
Radar T 1473 H AN/APG-79
Radar overall rating very good excellent
BVR Technology 75% 83%
BVR Def. Tech. 75% 80%
RCS – Radar Cross Section 0.5-1.5 1.0-2.5


Dogfight (close to medium range) Ratings

CATEGORY CHENGDU J-10 F/A-18E/F SUPER HORNET
Cannon GSh-23 M61A1 Vulcan
Caliber (mm) 23 mm 20 mm
Rate of Fire (rpm) 3600 rpm 6000 rpm
Muzzle Velocity 715 m/s 1050 m/s
Size Point 10%-30% 30% 20%
Maneuverability 8,6 7,8
Thrust/Weight Ratio 1,08 1.03
AAM (first) PL-9 AIM-7 Sparrow
Operational range 0.2 – 25 km 0.2 – 50 km
AAM (second) PL-8 AIM-9 Sidewinder
Operational range 0.2 – 20 km 0.5 – 30 km
Dogfight Rating 58% 57%

Size Comparison

CATEGORY CHENGDU J-10 F/A-18E/F SUPER HORNET
Length 15.49 m (50.82 ft) 18.4 m – 60.1 ft
Wingspan 9.75 m (31.99 ft) 13.65 m – 45 ft 0 in
Wing area 39.1 m² (355 sq ft) 46.5 m² – 500 sq ft
Height 5.43 m – 17 ft 7 in 4.88 m – 16.0 ft
Weight 9,750 kg – 21k lb 14,500 kg – 32,0k lb
Power 1 x 130 kN – 29,0k lbf 2 x 97 kN – 22k lbf

LOL. You don't learn.

 

[bluesky]

LOL. You don't learn.

So, what do you mean by your turd half line thing? Lol----

 

[Avicenna]

Nothing. Carry on.

 

[bluesky]

Nothing. Carry on.

Stop pounding others for no reason. You certainly are not the source of all knowledge. So, know yourself first before you hit the keyboard and try to become polite. Lol------

 

[帅的一匹]

@Avicenna @bluesky easy guys!

 

[bluesky]

CATEGORY CHENGDU J-10 F/A-18E/F SUPER HORNET
BVR Rating 75% 83%
Armament 7.5/10 7.9/10
Technology 7.5/10 8.9/10
Avionics 8.0/10 9.0/10
Maneuverability 8.6/10 7.8/10
Rate of Climb max. 300 m/s – 60k ft/min max. 228 m/s – 44k ft/min
Thrust/Weight 1.08 1.03
Service Ceiling 18 km – 59k ft 15 km – 50k ft
Speed 2.00 Mach 1.80 Mach
Fuel Economy 0.76 km/l – 1.79 NM/gallon 0.60 km/l – 1.21 NM/gallon
Unit Cost 35.000.000 USD 80.000.000 USD
Overall Rating very good very good

CATEGORY CHENGDU J-10 F/A-18E/F SUPER HORNET
BVR AAM missile PL-12 AAM AIM-120 AMRAAM
AAM origin China USA
Year in 2002 in 1997
Range (mile) 62 45
Range (km) 100 75
Speed (mph) 2640 2640
Speed (km/h) 4248 4248
Radar T 1473 H AN/APG-79
Radar overall rating very good excellent
BVR Technology 75% 83%
BVR Def. Tech. 75% 80%
RCS – Radar Cross Section 0.5-1.5 1.0-2.5

Dogfight (close to medium range) Ratings

CATEGORY CHENGDU J-10 F/A-18E/F SUPER HORNET
Cannon GSh-23 M61A1 Vulcan
Caliber (mm) 23 mm 20 mm
Rate of Fire (rpm) 3600 rpm 6000 rpm
Muzzle Velocity 715 m/s 1050 m/s
Size Point 10%-30% 30% 20%
Maneuverability 8,6 7,8
Thrust/Weight Ratio 1,08 1.03
AAM (first) PL-9 AIM-7 Sparrow
Operational range 0.2 – 25 km 0.2 – 50 km
AAM (second) PL-8 AIM-9 Sidewinder
Operational range 0.2 – 20 km 0.5 – 30 km
Dogfight Rating 58% 57%

Size Comparison

CATEGORY CHENGDU J-10 F/A-18E/F SUPER HORNET
Length 15.49 m (50.82 ft) 18.4 m – 60.1 ft
Wingspan 9.75 m (31.99 ft) 13.65 m – 45 ft 0 in
Wing area 39.1 m² (355 sq ft) 46.5 m² – 500 sq ft
Height 5.43 m – 17 ft 7 in 4.88 m – 16.0 ft
Weight 9,750 kg – 21k lb 14,500 kg – 32,0k lb
Power 1 x 130 kN – 29,0k lbf 2 x 97 kN – 22k lbf

Some people in the PDF are suggesting that BAF purchases F/A-18 Super Hornet. But, the data above show J-10C is almost equal to the super hornet, but while the former is 35 miilion dollar, the latter is 80 million dollar. Point is US planes are not available for BAF and it is a way too expensive. Countries like Japan, Korea and west European countries only can afford the Super Hornet.

 

[UKBengali]

CATEGORY CHENGDU J-10 F/A-18E/F SUPER HORNET
BVR AAM missile PL-12 AAM AIM-120 AMRAAM
AAM origin China USA
Year in 2002 in 1997
Range (mile) 62 45
Range (km) 100 75
Speed (mph) 2640 2640
Speed (km/h) 4248 4248
Radar T 1473 H AN/APG-79
Radar overall rating very good excellent
BVR Technology 75% 83%
BVR Def. Tech. 75% 80%
RCS – Radar Cross Section 0.5-1.5 1.0-2.5

Dogfight (close to medium range) Ratings

CATEGORY CHENGDU J-10 F/A-18E/F SUPER HORNET
Cannon GSh-23 M61A1 Vulcan
Caliber (mm) 23 mm 20 mm
Rate of Fire (rpm) 3600 rpm 6000 rpm
Muzzle Velocity 715 m/s 1050 m/s
Size Point 10%-30% 30% 20%
Maneuverability 8,6 7,8
Thrust/Weight Ratio 1,08 1.03
AAM (first) PL-9 AIM-7 Sparrow
Operational range 0.2 – 25 km 0.2 – 50 km
AAM (second) PL-8 AIM-9 Sidewinder
Operational range 0.2 – 20 km 0.5 – 30 km
Dogfight Rating 58% 57%

Size Comparison

CATEGORY CHENGDU J-10 F/A-18E/F SUPER HORNET
Length 15.49 m (50.82 ft) 18.4 m – 60.1 ft
Wingspan 9.75 m (31.99 ft) 13.65 m – 45 ft 0 in
Wing area 39.1 m² (355 sq ft) 46.5 m² – 500 sq ft
Height 5.43 m – 17 ft 7 in 4.88 m – 16.0 ft
Weight 9,750 kg – 21k lb 14,500 kg – 32,0k lb
Power 1 x 130 kN – 29,0k lbf 2 x 97 kN – 22k lbf

Some people in the PDF are suggesting that BAF purchases F/A-18 Super Hornet. But, the data above show J-10C is almost equal to the super hornet, but while the former is 35 miilion dollar, the latter is 80 million dollar. Point is US planes are not available for BAF and it is a way too expensive. Countries like Japan, Korea and west European countries only can afford the Super Hornet.

J-10C will cost 50-60 million per plane and the Hornet is not much more expensive.
J-10C is better at air-to-air while the Hornet is better at air-to-ground.

 

[Avicenna]

J-10C will cost 50-60 million per plane and the Hornet is not much more expensive.
J-10C is better at air-to-air while the Hornet is better at air-to-ground.

How on earth do you come to that conclusion.

In reality we dont have the info to know which is better at which.

Besides, the end goal which is completion of mission objectives goes
beyond a single system.

The choice of a platform has SO many factors that the use of tables to come to
conclusions is comical.

 

[UKBengali]

How on earth do you come to that conclusion.

In reality we dont have the info to know which is better at which.

Besides, the end goal which is completion of mission objectives goes
beyond a single system.

The choice of a platform has SO many factors that the use of tables to come to
conclusions is comical.

See evaluations when Hornet and Eurocanards were competing.
Hornet is even admitted by USN to not be a very good air-to-air fighter. It does not have an airframe optimised for it.
J-10C is optimised for air-to-air role.
Think you need to research a bit more in this area.

 

[Avicenna]

See evaluations when Hornet and Eurocanards were competing.
Hornet is even admitted by USN to not be a very good air-to-air fighter. It does not have an airframe optimised for it.
J-10C is optimised for air-to-air role.
Think you need to research a bit more in this area.

1) Not sure how this discussion is related to BAF. No way is Bangladesh getting access or can afford the Super Hornet.

2) Air to Air means what exactly? Dogfighting? BVR capabilities? Establishment of air dominance?
I have no idea which platform is better. All I am saying is we cant go by published "specs" and tables.
Even the USAF chief of staff says about the F-35 that you cant look at it in isolation. Its part of the system and wont ever be there alone.

3) Also the USN air to air mission is very specific. Remember the Super Hornet replaced the F-14. (Which is my FAVORITE of all time.)

DAMN I LOVE THE F-14!

4) J-10C is an unknown. Modern Chinese wares for that matter is an unknown. Given the choice I would ALWAYS go Western. But that may change in the future. But for now, my money is on the West.

 

[UKBengali]

1) Not sure how this discussion is related to BAF. No way is Bangladesh getting access or can afford the Super Hornet.

2) Air to Air means what exactly? Dogfighting? BVR capabilities? Establishment of air dominance?
I have no idea which platform is better. All I am saying is we cant go by published "specs" and tables.
Even the USAF chief of staff says about the F-35 that you cant look at it in isolation. Its part of the system and wont ever be there alone.

3) Also the USN air to air mission is very specific. Remember the Super Hornet replaced the F-14. (Which is my FAVORITE of all time.)

DAMN I LOVE THE F-14!

4) J-10C is an unknown. Modern Chinese wares for that matter is an unknown. Given the choice I would ALWAYS go Western. But that may change in the future. But for now, my money is on the West.

Exactly BAF cannot get the Super Hornet so comparison is irrelevant.

 

[bluesky]

J-10C will cost 50-60 million per plane and the Hornet is not much more expensive.
J-10C is better at air-to-air while the Hornet is better at air-to-ground.

Internet sources say the following about the pricing of J-10:
"The design bureau for the Chengdu J-10 is state-owned, and so are the factories which make it. This means that they are not, strictly speaking, for profit enterprises. None of the manufacturers are publicly listed companies which are held accountable by their board, management and shareholders. They serve only the Chinese Communist party".

Since the government of China and Communist Party are involved in the production of J-10, it is possible that BAF may get the planes at a subsidized price lower than $30 million, who knows. China will certainly consider deeply about its geopolitical interests when agreeing to a price. I believe that there was a kind of Chinese commitment, like 4.5G planes in the future at a lowered price, when BAF bought F-7BGI only a few years ago. The BGI planes were a stop gap measure, but they had cost BAF a lot of money. Now, I expect China to fulfill the assumed 2nd part of its commitment by selling J-10 at a subsidized price.

 

[Avicenna]

Internet sources say the following about the pricing of J-10:
"The design bureau for the Chengdu J-10 is state-owned, and so are the factories which make it. This means that they are not, strictly speaking, for profit enterprises. None of the manufacturers are publicly listed companies which are held accountable by their board, management and shareholders. They serve only the Chinese Communist party".

Since the government of China and Communist Party are involved in the production of J-10, it is possible that BAF may get the planes at a subsidized price lower than $30 million, who knows. China will certainly consider deeply about its geopolitical interests when agreeing to a price. I believe that there was a kind of Chinese commitment, like 4.5G planes in the future at a lowered price, when BAF bought F-7BGI only a few years ago. The BGI planes were a stop gap measure, but they had cost BAF a lot of money. Now, I expect China to fulfill the assumed 2nd part of its commitment by selling J-10 at a subsidized price.

Maybe. I hope so.