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Baloch-Pakhtun rivalry rears its head at CPEC meeting

As if the Baloch people are less capable of defending Pakistan or the Sindhis. It only objectifies a mentality that considers certain races more equal than others.
They are not less but rather they were not fully aware of importance of Government jobs even today i have seen during recruitment process Army has to send team into villages to fill quota for sindhis and so goes for Baloch,once in service they are not less capable then Punjabi and Pushtun but Bloch personal often go weird in start of carrier.
 
They are not less but rather they were not fully aware of importance of Government jobs even today i have seen during recruitment process Army has to send team into villages to fill quota for sindhis and so goes for Baloch,once in service they are not less capable then Punjabi and Pushtun but Bloch personal often go weird in start of carrier.
Issue of society. The weirdness must stem for a reason. The needless entries of cast, sects and other baseless ideals being put in the Army recruitment forms is ample proof enough that the process is still that of a ruling occupation force rather than a force out to integrate people.

Pakistan was not the idea of Allama Iqbal. Allama Iqbal wanted Muslim majority states in united India to have more autonomy.
He envisioned the Muslim States as being semi-independent much as US states are, with their own national guard, laws , economic choices....whilst still part of a greater Indian federation. Infact, he proposed these Muslim states as being the first line of defence for India from the Afghans and their constant raids, along with providing a buffer to defend India against any Land borne invasion from the west. Creating essentially a crunch zone for defence forces to fall back and protect the more vulnerable inner sections of India and its infrastructure.

However, thanks to the more seasoned politicians of the Congress this was never to be.
 
ssue of society. The weirdness must stem for a reason. The needless entries of cast, sects and other baseless ideals being put in the Army recruitment forms is ample proof enough that the process is still that of a ruling occupation force rather than a force out to integrate people.
You know sir 99.99% things still army follows have roots in British slave force.Things change in Pakistan but not until we have met an incident that damages us as whole nation..
 
You know sir 99.99% things still army follows have roots in British slave force.Things change in Pakistan but not until we have met an incident that damages us as whole nation..
EXACTLY. That is the first time someone has understood my whole tirade. We are too comfortable as a people with our lives to change. We need to burn and shake up. 71 was nothing, because it happened some 3000 kms away with people who were not really connected to the people of current Pakistan.

There needs to a disaster or national loss that every household from Muzaffarbad to Karachi to Quetta to Pasni feels,it has to personally effect their households. That is the only hope to save the country.
 
Your argument is no different than his except packaged better. In simple terms you essentially downplayed the entire contribution on mere nothingness and seem to attribute the survival of the country to the good old "martial race" hint that is propagated throughout the length of your post.

The whole Pashtun-Punjabi elite ideal was no generosity by them but rather engineered. With quota systems and nepotism ruling the roost till today. As if the Baloch people are less capable of defending Pakistan or the Sindhis. It only objectifies a mentality that considers certain races more equal than others.
If the poster's swipe only revealed these thoughts I find it odd that you keep them at bay. This is the simple problem with Pakistan today, the disunity within the nation is a consequence of this impartial domination of civil servant and military service quotas by the two provinces that has led to the Baloch wanting their own state and others soon to follow.

As for the rather laughable idea of losing Kashmir, let me remind you that it was the key leadership of ML from UP that proposed the military intervention for Kashmir in 47-48 along with all other territories that were supposedly Pakistanis.
Rather, it was the stupidity of Ayub when he was given the option of taking Kashmir in return for dropping the Hyderabad-Junagarh issue that is missed out when the distorted history that we are taught by these two P elites is stated.

Suddenly those poor boys guarding the country have to end up being used against their "own" people much like it was with Bangladesh? Where these poor boys committed atrocities under the guise of "protecting" this so called "crucial" alliance between the two larger communities?
And what was the result of that attitude? 70000 of these poor boys returned with shoes on their faces and their supposed thankful people not even bothering to look at them. Good show.

As for your link, perhaps you should go through the initials ideals that it proposes that the very "Punjabization" of the Army ended up being a source of dissent within other provinces in the Raj. It to this day forces that divide between the provinces and prevents integration of both the majority and the minority, creating that angst the keeps both from reconciling their differences and working together.
This paragraph completely takes your own post and turns it onto its head, something that you seem to have missed when

Thus, the tradition of British military recruitment in the North West of the subcontinent (Punjab and NWFP), was a major factor in the emergence of Pakistan as a quasi-militarised country. It was a country with a weak political structure, feeble political parties and politicians, but a strong feudal class and civil and military bureaucracy. This naturally ‘consolidated the linkages between the military service, agricultural land and political power’

Hence the Muslim League, due to its weak control within the newly created country, had to abdicate in favour of a stronger giant, the Pakistan Army. With the firm support of the feudal class, more agricultural land under its domain, and with its organisational and professional culture, the Pakistan Army began to assert its political role in the hub of the country’s politics. The irony of fate is that it lacked political training. Hence, the Army ran the country like a defence establishment by increasing the defence budget, having defence pacts, and appointing defence services people in the policy making bodies of the country, with effects that ultimately were to be deleterious in the future development of the country

Sadly, this country and its people are not very keen on history besides anything that goes +/- 10% the core syllabus taught in school.



You seem to portray it as such.

During the 60s, 60-70% of Pakistan army was said to be from just 4 districts; Attock, Jhelum, Chakwal and Rawalpindi, collectively known as Potohar. The rest was predominantly from the Pakhtuns and Azad Kashmiris. And there has never been a "quota system" in the army I believe. As a Potohari, I can say the reason why we dominated the army was because it's in our culture to join the army. Our land is barren and hilly, and suffered water issues for much of its history before the advent of drilling, hence over the past many centuries, warfare and militarism has been our only economy. Before the Brits, we were recruited by Mughals. We dominated the army then, and dominate it at a soldier level till now, because we are passionate upon joining it. Army is still the first choice of employment for the local youth where I'm from. Have Baloch, Sindhis and Muhajirs been this passionate?

This quota system is a non-sense, which your almighty bhai preaches to you to win followers. The reality is that most of you didn't sign up in hundreds of thousands to join the army. I'm sure most muhajirs see army as their last priority, when it comes to jobs. And now the army leadership is also vary of recruiting muhajirs from Karachi, for in the past, some have abandoned the army after training and joined MQM's killing gangs(remember the MQM's target killer named Shahrukh Khan?).

As for the Bangladesh debacle. You conveniently forget the role of "stranded Pakistanis" in the atrocities. Why's that? Also did you know the Bangladesh movement started because of the state's refusal to recognize Bengali language. State shoved urdu down their throats just like it's doing now. Do you know which P was behind this militant emphasis on urdu?
 
During the 60s, 60-70% of Pakistan army was said to be from just 4 districts; Attock, Jhelum, Chakwal and Rawalpindi, collectively known as Potohar. The rest was predominantly from the Pakhtuns and Azad Kashmiris. And there has never been a "quota system" in the army I believe. As a Potohari, I can say the reason why we dominated the army was because it's in our culture to join the army. Our land is barren and hilly, and suffered water issues for much of its history before the advent of drilling, hence over the past many centuries, warfare and militarism has been our only economy. Before the Brits, we were recruited by Mughals. We dominated the army then, and dominate it at a soldier level till now, because we are passionate upon joining it. Army is still the first choice of employment for the local youth where I'm from. Have Baloch, Sindhis and Muhajirs been this passionate?

This quota system is a non-sense, which your almighty bhai preaches to you to win followers. The reality is that most of you didn't sign up in hundreds of thousands to join the army. I'm sure most muhajirs see army as their last priority, when it comes to jobs. And now the army leadership is also vary of recruiting muhajirs from Karachi, for in the past, some have abandoned the army after training and joined MQM's killing gangs(remember the MQM's target killer named Shahrukh Khan?).

As for the Bangladesh debacle. You conveniently forget the role of "stranded Pakistanis" in the atrocities. Why's that? Also did you know the Bangladesh movement started because of the state's refusal to recognize Bengali language. State shoved urdu down their throats just like it's doing now. Do you know which P was behind this militant emphasis on urdu?

Your only proving the point that the two Ps think they are gods gift to the country and the rest do nothing. I have no interest in the fat guy in London, but it helps that he makes you spill your inner prejudice out and it only garners him support.
The quota system has been there for a long while now, you choose to ignore its existence is your own problem. It was used in full force to change things in Sindh's favour by Bhutto too. Lest we think the problem lies only with the two Ps.

As for the Urdu idea, it was the idea of the man now called "fatima ka bhai" by your Potwari Brother sitting in the Military Accounts Office in chaklala after he took a bribe for 4 lac rupees for a surgical equipment contract. I wonder if this mistake of Jinnah was to have militancy or perhaps to give these ungrateful people a land who would then accuse him of being a coward or a militant.
 
Your only proving the point that the two Ps think they are gods gift to the country and the rest do nothing. I have no interest in the fat guy in London, but it helps that he makes you spill your inner prejudice out and it only garners him support.

As for the Urdu idea, it was the idea of the man now called "fatima ka bhai" by your Potwari Brother sitting in the Military Accounts Office in chaklala after he took a bribe for 4 lac rupees for a surgical equipment contract. I wonder if this mistake of Jinnah was to have militancy or perhaps to give these ungrateful people a land who would then accuse him of being a coward or a militant.

Are you talking about Ayub Khan? And you talk as if local people had no role in making Pakistan at all, and that it's your gift to us and for that we should be forever thankful to you and never go to Karachi for jobs.
 
During the 60s, 60-70% of Pakistan army was said to be from just 4 districts; Attock, Jhelum, Chakwal and Rawalpindi, collectively known as Potohar. The rest was predominantly from the Pakhtuns and Azad Kashmiris. And there has never been a "quota system" in the army I believe. As a Potohari, I can say the reason why we dominated the army was because it's in our culture to join the army. Our land is barren and hilly, and suffered water issues for much of its history before the advent of drilling, hence over the past many centuries, warfare and militarism has been our only economy. Before the Brits, we were recruited by Mughals. We dominated the army then, and dominate it at a soldier level till now, because we are passionate upon joining it. Army is still the first choice of employment for the local youth where I'm from. Have Baloch, Sindhis and Muhajirs been this passionate?

This quota system is a non-sense, which your almighty bhai preaches to you to win followers. The reality is that most of you didn't sign up in hundreds of thousands to join the army. I'm sure most muhajirs see army as their last priority, when it comes to jobs. And now the army leadership is also vary of recruiting muhajirs from Karachi, for in the past, some have abandoned the army after training and joined MQM's killing gangs(remember the MQM's target killer named Shahrukh Khan?).

As for the Bangladesh debacle. You conveniently forget the role of "stranded Pakistanis" in the atrocities. Why's that? Also did you know the Bangladesh movement started because of the state's refusal to recognize Bengali language. State shoved urdu down their throats just like it's doing now. Do you know which P was behind this militant emphasis on urdu?
What does being 'raised on barren and hilly land' have to do with anything? While being in the military requires certain levels of physical fitness, those levels are attainable by most individuals who commit to the necessary physical and dietary regimen. We aren't building an Army of Olympic gold medalists after all.

With respect to your comment about 'loyalty', we've seen extremely vile former military individuals who were Punjabi or Pashtun - these individuals massacred soldiers and civilians alike and chose loyalty towards terrorist groups like the TTP over their loyalty to the country and the institution of the military. Treasonous behavior is certainly not limited to the Muhajir, Baloch or Sindhis.
 
EXACTLY. That is the first time someone has understood my whole tirade. We are too comfortable as a people with our lives to change. We need to burn and shake up. 71 was nothing, because it happened some 3000 kms away with people who were not really connected to the people of current Pakistan.

There needs to a disaster or national loss that every household from Muzaffarbad to Karachi to Quetta to Pasni feels,it has to personally effect their households. That is the only hope to save the country.
Sir Pakistan will never break i wish we have east back.About 5 million Pastuns are settled in Punjab,2-3 million balochis in Sariki belt,the thing we need to understand is our enemies know that in Pakistan they would never be able repeat episode of 1971 but surely they just want to descend us in chaos like a person who is "house of disease" that person is such like that you never bother whether he is or is not.
Your only proving the point that the two Ps think they are gods gift to the country and the rest do nothing. I have no interest in the fat guy in London, but it helps that he makes you spill your inner prejudice out and it only garners him support.
The quota system has been there for a long while now, you choose to ignore its existence is your own problem. It was used in full force to change things in Sindh's favour by Bhutto too. Lest we think the problem lies only with the two Ps.

As for the Urdu idea, it was the idea of the man now called "fatima ka bhai" by your Potwari Brother sitting in the Military Accounts Office in chaklala after he took a bribe for 4 lac rupees for a surgical equipment contract. I wonder if this mistake of Jinnah was to have militancy or perhaps to give these ungrateful people a land who would then accuse him of being a coward or a militant.
For bold part sir and @ghoul i have met many peoples in uniform who belong to Punjab but are using sindhi or balochi quota system by using fake domicile.Thanks to kiyani who has made mandatory a language test for certain areas.
For MA Jinnah i really fell piety we are really a un thankful nation for those Mullahs who are doing there Mullah geri to some libral bigots who eat drink and die in this country made by Jinnah they abuse him .....
 
What does being 'raised on barren and hilly land' have to do with anything? While being in the military requires certain levels of physical fitness, those levels are attainable by most individuals who commit to the necessary physical and dietary regimen. We aren't building an Army of Olympic gold medalists after all.

With respect to your comment about 'loyalty', we've seen extremely vile former military individuals who were Punjabi or Pashtun - these individuals massacred soldiers and civilians alike and chose loyalty towards terrorist groups like the TTP over their loyalty to the country and the institution of the military. Treasonous behavior is certainly not limited to the Muhajir, Baloch or Sindhis.

Read the second sentence. We've a culture of joining the military, regardless of who's at the takht-e-Delhi, because our land is not good for agriculture making military our only inherent source of earning. Though times have changed now.

PS: As if MQM's guys have had no links with RAW. And sorry to burst your bubble, but we Potoharis aren't in TTP or any terrorist group for that matter. Our land hasn't been deobandized up till yet, hence terrorists from here is a rare occurrence.
 
Are you talking about Ayub Khan? And you talk as if local people had no role in making Pakistan at all, and that it's your gift to us and for that we should be forever thankful to you and never go to Karachi for jobs.
No I am not referring to that racist dictator. I am referring to your bretherin the Army, who can be bought for 1000 "fatima ke bhai" to put a stamp on the payment cheques.

Lets look at the locals and their leadership.

Punjabi Unionists who were never interested in Pakistan before a clever politician convinced them(ironic that the politican himself never came to Pakistan because he was disgusted with what these people had in mind) to turn their and their supporters around for Pakistan.

Pushtoon Red Coats who were staunch congress supporters until the NWFP muslim league took hold the Hazara and Gilgit areas who then changed the vote of the people.

Baloch Leadership supported the Idea of Pakistan.

Sindh was one province to offer unconditional support, so I support Sindhis when they decrey the bullshit MQM pulled for them in Karachi. The MQM was pushed up specifically to hit the Bhuttos in their home ground by ZIa.

Yet, at the end of it all.. who has made the most in Pakistan now and cries "sons of the soil" against everyone else as making the most contribution? Not the Balochis and not the Sindhis as such so far?

As long as this attitude of claiming superiority remains with the two provinces, the grievances all across Pakistan will remain. That word "Muhajir" from you is not a taunt to me, but an insult to Mohammad Ali Jinnah and his pointless sacrifice.But then again, what do you care? You are potwari, genetically martial raced person along with the Pashtuns stemming from a line of people who join the Army and then like Niazi and his troops, surrendering to little pint sized Gorkhas and generally thin vegetarian Indians.
 
For bold part sir and @ghoul i have met many peoples in uniform who belong to Punjab but are using sindhi or balochi quota system by using fake domicile.Thanks to kiyani who has made mandatory a language test for certain areas.
For MA Jinnah i really fell piety we are really a un thankful nation for those Mullahs who are doing there Mullah geri to some libral bigots who eat drink and die in this country made by Jinnah they abuse him .....

Not everyone from Punjab is an ethnic Punjabi. I feel no ethnic or cultural affinity with proper Punjabis and Saraikis.
 
Sir Pakistan will never break i wish we have east back.About 5 million Pastuns are settled in Punjab,2-3 million balochis in Sariki belt,the thing we need to understand is our enemies know that in Pakistan they would never be able repeat episode of 1971 but surely they just want to descend us in chaos like a person who is "house of disease" that person is such like that you never bother whether he is or is not.
For bold part sir and @ghoul i have met many peoples in uniform who belong to Punjab but are using sindhi or balochi quota system by using fake domicile.Thanks to kiyani who has made mandatory a language test for certain areas.
For MA Jinnah i really fell piety we are really a un thankful nation for those Mullahs who are doing there Mullah geri to some libral bigots who eat drink and die in this country made by Jinnah they abuse him .....
It is irrelevant whether it is Pashtun, Punjabi or Sindhi or Seriaki or some aiki paiki. What matters is that as a nation we are easily divisible along the lines of ethnicity due to our inability to break beyond basic British led prejudices enforced in our system from the days of the Raj.

The so called Muhajirs forget that they were the ones who filled all the Bureaucratic positions with almost complete monopoly and essentially minted money early on, something that made the feudal elite of the other nations insecure. This thing is forgotten by those idiots who cry along Altaf Hussain that the community itself was the one taking that racist dictator Ayub Khan as a hero and licking his boots(which they do to this day for the Army).

But the issue lies not with one ethnicity, it lies with how we are taught and brought up by the society that combines our education system and social ideals set in stone by the political elite from the death of Jinnah in 48. The 71 disaster forced the Mullah attempt to try and unite the country forgetting that the Mullahs are even more disunited that this nation ever was before them.
 
Not everyone from Punjab is an ethnic Punjabi. I feel no ethnic or cultural affinity with proper Punjabis and Saraikis.
450px-Dialects_Of_Punjabi.jpg


What matters is that as a nation we are easily divisible along the lines of ethnicity due to our inability to break beyond basic British led prejudices enforced in our system from the days of the Raj.
walls of ethnicity have not broken because this mindset is present in elite class who has no interest in prompting a single language or agenda for nation.
 
No I am not referring to that racist dictator. I am referring to your bretherin the Army, who can be bought for 1000 "fatima ke bhai" to put a stamp on the payment cheques.

Lets look at the locals and their leadership.

Punjabi Unionists who were never interested in Pakistan before a clever politician convinced them(ironic that the politican himself never came to Pakistan because he was disgusted with what these people had in mind) to turn their and their supporters around for Pakistan.

Pushtoon Red Coats who were staunch congress supporters until the NWFP muslim league took hold the Hazara and Gilgit areas who then changed the vote of the people.

Baloch Leadership supported the Idea of Pakistan.

Sindh was one province to offer unconditional support, so I support Sindhis when they decrey the bullshit MQM pulled for them in Karachi. The MQM was pushed up specifically to hit the Bhuttos in their home ground by ZIa.

Yet, at the end of it all.. who has made the most in Pakistan now and cries "sons of the soil" against everyone else as making the most contribution? Not the Balochis and not the Sindhis as such so far?

As long as this attitude of claiming superiority remains with the two provinces, the grievances all across Pakistan will remain. That word "Muhajir" from you is not a taunt to me, but an insult to Mohammad Ali Jinnah and his pointless sacrifice.But then again, what do you care? You are potwari, genetically martial raced person along with the Pashtuns stemming from a line of people who join the Army and then like Niazi and his troops, surrendering to little pint sized Gorkhas and generally thin vegetarian Indians.

Oh man. All the fake stories that your bhai has told you as a community. The founder of unionists, Sir Sikandar Hyatt was even at the Lahore resolution. He had all the intention to support Pakistan. You all mistake Sikandar Hyatt for Khizr Hyatt; the two of whom were unrelated. Jinnah had tons of supporters in Punjab, like Raja Ghazanfar Ali Khan, Chaudhary Fazal Elahi, Muhammad Iqbal etc.

As for surrender in Bangladesh, Yahya Khan ordered it. Even Germans surrendered in Russia, did it make them crappy soldiers? And bhai jaan, those pint sized Gurkhas are actually great fighters who resisted EIC with all their might, whereas UP, Bihar like regions were conquered without them having to fire a single shot. And the backbone of Indian army is its high Sikh population anyway, who also have a long history of fighting. Those vegetarians do not join the army, for they are too afraid.

As for me calling you guys a muhajir, I apologize for that but some people insist on being called that. Your fellow community men do not even have the decency to apologize for their !@#$ Karachi style racist remarks.
 

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