BAE System is hiring Engineers for the TF-X program

[cabatli_53]

BAe is making Tempest fighter jet for British air force but they'll never sell the design to Turkey unless Turkey pays them 100 billion USD for it.

If Turkey offers 99 billion $, What will Britan do ? Tell something about this offer as well.

 

[T-123456]

BAe is making Tempest fighter jet for British air force but they'll never sell the design to Turkey unless Turkey pays them 100 billion USD for it.

Yeah,you always get the news directly from BAE or was it Boris Johnson?

 

[Test7]

Yeah,you always get the news directly from BAE or was it Boris Johnson?

He has very special resources.. Turkish threads are the areas where he shares his private and confidential information. He recently revealed the secret of SOM's hidden chips and components that no one knows about.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/deve...ations-in-libya.645576/page-223#post-12606025

 

[UKBengali]

5th generation standards are generated by west and Chinese aircrafts are not compatible with the tech frame Western states describes so Chinese 5th or 6th generation terms will always be an issue that will be debated by source and open platforms. That’s the reason I am not counting China inside this list. US may inteoduce an 6th generation by 2030 since they have a huge experience on previous efforts but It doesn’t mean they will open it for export markets. Same for Europe. I believe UK (officially planned 2035) will need more time than they have planned. France having better experience on aircraft programs, foreseens 2040 as an first induction so I believe taking 2040-2045 years will be more logical for initial service of an 6th generation in Europe.

Are you aware that the Euro-fighter is basically a UK plane? Airframe, engines, radar are all British. The others really only contribute by building their own planes with production lines. Germany got the job of the FBW as that was the only area they could be realistically trusted to get right.

The UK is also the only Tier 1 partner on the F-35 and gained access to a lot of stealth tech that way. RR also jointly developed the F-136 backup engine for the F-35 with GE but the programme was dropped after development was nearly completed.

France is a fair way behind the UK in a lot of 5th gen technologies and will have to develop most things from scratch, unlike the UK that has a good base to start from. The critical difference between the UK and Franco-German fighter is that France is quite a bit behind the UK on engine tech and so their fighter would not get the most cutting-edge engine like US/UK, although I still expect it to be a good aircraft.

As for the timelines, 2035 is realistic for the UK as they have all the base tech. to work from and the Eurofighters that they intend to replace will start to need to be replaced from this time onwards as the oldest Euro-fighters will then be 30 years old.

Lastly do not count China out as they have all the money, engineers and motivation to develop a 6th gen fighter by the mid-2030s. It may not be as good as what the US/UK come up with but it will still be better than 5th gen fighters out at the time.

 

[Figaro]

5th generation standards are generated by west and Chinese aircrafts are not compatible with the tech frame Western states describes so Chinese 5th or 6th generation terms will always be an issue that will be debated by source and open platforms. That’s the reason I am not counting China inside this list. US may inteoduce an 6th generation by 2030 since they have a huge experience on previous efforts but It doesn’t mean they will open it for export markets. Same for Europe. I believe UK (officially planned 2035) will need more time than they have planned. France having better experience on aircraft programs, foreseens 2040 as an first induction so I believe taking 2040-2045 years will be more logical for initial service of an 6th generation in Europe.

There is no debate the J-20 or even the FC-31 are 5th generation aircraft among Western states. Even the Pentagon officially refers to them as 5th generation. As for 6th generation fighters, the chief designer of the 611 institute (responsible for the JF-17, J-10, J-20) publicly stated China intends to develop a 6th generation aircraft by 2035 or earlier.

China is eyeing to develop a next generation fighter jet by 2035 or earlier, which could feature laser, adaptive engines and the ability to command drones, reports in early 2019 quoted Wang Haifeng, another senior designer at AVIC who participated in the development of the J-20 and J-10 fighter jets, as saying.

Are you aware that the Euro-fighter is basically a UK plane? Airframe, engines, radar are all British. The others really only contribute by building their own planes with production lines. Germany got the job of the FBW as that was the only area they could be realistically trusted to get right.

The UK is also the only Tier 1 partner on the F-35 and gained access to a lot of stealth tech that way. RR also jointly developed the F-136 backup engine for the F-35 with GE but the programme was dropped after development was nearly completed.

France is a fair way behind the UK in a lot of 5th gen technologies and will have to develop most things from scratch, unlike the UK that has a good base to start from. The critical difference between the UK and Franco-German fighter is that France is quite a bit behind the UK on engine tech and so their fighter would not get the most cutting-edge engine like US/UK, although I still expect it to be a good aircraft.

As for the timelines, 2035 is realistic for the UK as they have all the base tech. to work from and the Eurofighters that they intend to replace will start to need to be replaced from this time onwards as the oldest Euro-fighters will then be 30 years old.

Lastly do not count China out as they have all the money, engineers and motivation to develop a 6th gen fighter by the mid-2030s. It may not be as good as what the US/UK come up with but it will still be better than 5th gen fighters out at the time.

IMHO, the only 6th generation fighters I can see currently being viable is the US sixth generation fighter and the Chinese one. I would put Russia on the list too but given they've not yet successfully developed the Su-57, this will have to wait a little. The truth I doubt the UK and the Tempest project will succeed. While the UK did indeed develop the Typhoon, that is a 4++ gen fighter at best ... they have not developed a 5th gen fighter. Skipping a generation to develop a 6th gen fighter seems almost unfathomable to me, as we have seen the great difficulties the US, Russia, and likely China (although not reported) in developing 5th generation aircraft. And this is not even discounting the likely US refusal to transfer core 5th gen technology (I doubt even as a Tier 1 partner, the US would transfer extensive stealth know how) to the UK due to political pressure to make the UK buy state of the art US aircraft. Contrary to what people say, skipping an entire generation of aircraft (especially something as technologically advanced/crucial as 5th gen) is a recipe for failure.

 

[UKBengali]

IMHO, the only 6th generation fighters I can see currently being viable is the US sixth generation fighter and the Chinese one. I would put Russia on the list too but given they've not yet successfully developed the Su-57, this will have to wait a little. The truth I doubt the UK and the Tempest project will succeed. While the UK did indeed develop the Typhoon, that is a 4++ gen fighter at best ... they have not developed a 5th gen fighter. Skipping a generation to develop a 6th gen fighter seems almost unfathomable to me, as we have seen the great difficulties the US, Russia, and likely China (although not reported) in developing 5th generation aircraft. And this is not even discounting the likely US refusal to transfer core 5th gen technology (I doubt even as a Tier 1 partner, the US would transfer extensive stealth know how) to the UK due to political pressure to make the UK buy state of the art US aircraft. Contrary to what people say, skipping an entire generation of aircraft (especially something as technologically advanced/crucial as 5th gen) is a recipe for failure.

Nope, UK worked with the US on the core stealth tech for the F-35 and like I say also co-developed the backup F136 engine that almost nearly completed development. It is not a case of US transferring any 5th gen stealth tech as the UK engineers directly worked on the stealth tech on the F-35 airframe.

Do you know the reason why the UK was allowed access to US stealth tech on the F-35? It proved with the BAE Replica technology demonstrator that it was able to develop stealth tech independently and so the benefits that the US would get by working with UK would outweigh the loss of some stealth tech to UK. As an example US needed the swivel nozzle technology that RR refined over many decades on the Harrier jet for the F-35.

UK is the only real peer to the US in aerospace tech with the only difference that the US has much more money.

China is making good progress and I expect them to be able to field a decent 6th gen plane by 2035 but it's inferiority in engine tech even in 15 years to UK/US will mean that it will be a 2nd best effort.

As for Russia, they are a joke and failed to even make a 5th gen fighter, forget about 6th gen.

 

[Indos]

Nope, UK worked with the US on the core stealth tech for the F-35 and like I say also co-developed the backup F136 engine that almost nearly completed development. It is not a case of US transferring any 5th gen stealth tech as the UK engineers directly worked on the stealth tech on the F-35 airframe.

Do you know the reason why the UK was allowed access to US stealth tech on the F-35? It proved with the BAE Replica technology demonstrator that it was able to develop stealth tech independently and so the benefits that the US would get by working with UK would outweigh the loss of some stealth tech to UK. As an example US needed the swivel nozzle technology that RR refined over many decades on the Harrier jet for the F-35.

UK is the only real peer to the US in aerospace tech with the only difference that the US has much more money.

China is making good progress and I expect them to be able to field a decent 6th gen plane by 2035 but it's inferiority in engine tech even in 15 years to UK/US will mean that it will be a 2nd best effort.

As for Russia, they are a joke and failed to even make a 5th gen fighter, forget about 6th gen.

As a Tier 1 partner, how much UK stake on F 35 ? 10%, 15 % ...?

Is there news saying that UK designers and engineers contribute in F 35 development and work side by side with LM engineers in US ? How many designers/engineers being sent on the development phase ?

 

[UKBengali]

As a Tier 1 partner, how much UK stake on F 35 ? 10%, 15 % ...?

Is there news saying that UK designers and engineers contribute in F 35 development and work side by side with LM engineers in US ? How many designers/engineers being sent on the development phase ?

UK industry builds 15% of the F-35.

BAE Systems, GE Aviation, Martin-Baker, SELEX, Cobham, Ultra Electronics, UTC Actuation Systems and Rolls-Royce are just a few of the more than 100 U.K.-based suppliers for the program.

Cannot find a link just now on exactly how many UK engineers worked on the stealth and other areas to develop the F-35 but have read about this before on the internet.

Just to give you an idea how much of the F-35 is British take a look at below:

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/how-much-of-the-f-35-is-british-built/

Like I say UK proved with the BAE Replica technology demonstrator that it could independently develop the stealth tech and it had decades of experience on the swivel nozzle system from the Harrier Jump Jet that was used on the P&W F135 engine.

UK and US have shared aerospace tech for decades with each other and so them sharing tech with each other on the F-35 was nothing of a surprise.

 

[Indos]

UK industry builds 15% of the F-35.

BAE Systems, GE Aviation, Martin-Baker, SELEX, Cobham, Ultra Electronics, UTC Actuation Systems and Rolls-Royce are just a few of the more than 100 U.K.-based suppliers for the program.

Cannot find a link just now on exactly how many UK engineers worked on the stealth and other areas to develop the F-35 but have read about this before on the internet.

Just to give you an idea how much of the F-35 is British take a look at below:

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/how-much-of-the-f-35-is-british-built/

Like I say UK proved with the BAE Replica technology demonstrator that it could independently develop the stealth tech and it had decades of experience on the swivel nozzle system from the Harrier Jump Jet that was used on the P&W F135 engine.

UK and US have shared aerospace tech for decades with each other and so them sharing tech with each other on the F-35 was nothing of a surprise.

Thanks for the information. I dont argue about UK work shared on the F 35 as even Turkey also has many component work share on the program, what I want to ask is how much UK designers/engineers participating in the development phase. Until now there is no one able to answer it and it is important to see whether UK gain design experience through F 35 program and participate in the development in US or only become parts manufacturer.

 

[UKBengali]

Thanks for the information. I dont argue about UK work shared on the F 35 as even Turkey also has many component work share on the program, what I want to ask is how much UK designers/engineers participating in the development phase. Until now there is no one able to answer it and it is important to see whether UK gain design experience through F 35 program and participate in the development in US or only become parts manufacturer.

https://uk.usembassy.gov/ambassador-johnson-f35-fighter-is-a-great-deal-for-britain/

"The United Kingdom is what we call a “Tier 1” partner – the only other country allowed to influence the F-35 design"

https://www.gov.uk/government/speeches/f-35-great-for-britain

"The MOD invested $2 billion in the development of the aircraft at an early stage of the programme, and we are now seeing the benefits"

https://www.aero-mag.com/bae-systems-marks-500th-delivery-for-f-35-programme/

"The programme is led by prime contractor, US firm Lockheed Martin, with BAE Systems and Northrop Grumman making up its principal industry partners.”"


Hopefully this is the confirmation that you are looking for.

 

[cabatli_53]

Thanks for the information. I dont argue about UK work shared on the F 35 as even Turkey also has many component work share on the program, what I want to ask is how much UK designers/engineers participating in the development phase. Until now there is no one able to answer it and it is important to see whether UK gain design experience through F 35 program and participate in the development in US or only become parts manufacturer.

As the prime contractor, Lockheed Martin continues its 100-year history of aircraft research and design with the Lightning II. Principal partners Northrop Grumman and BAE Systems build the center and aft fuselages, respectively. Northrop Grumman also brings its expertise in carrier aircraft and low-observable stealth technology to the F-35 program and supports logistics, sustainment, modeling and simulation and mission planning. BAE Systems contributes a rich heritage of capabilities, including short takeoff and vertical landing experience, advanced lean manufacturing, flight testing and air systems sustainment. Pratt & Whitney builds the F-35's F135 propulsion system, the world's most powerful fighter engine.

https://www.f35.com/about

It seems the overall design of F35 was under the responsibility of solely LockheedMartin and NorthropGrumman contributed on stealth tech along with Lockheed. BAE system was charged to develop aft fuselage. Acc to this source, BAE system provided expertise for short take off and vertical landing technology. If that is the matter, F-35 overall design and stealth tech was developed by solely US based institutes.

 

[UKBengali]

@Indos
@cabatli_53


Bros, I think this settles it as to UK gaining real valuable stealth experience on the F-35. Remember they were an equal sub-contractor with Northrop Grumman, with Lockheed Martin being the lead contractor.

While UK may not have gained access to the stealth materials used in the F-35, it definitely learnt a lot about stealth shaping and manufacturing of the stealth airframe from it's involvement.


https://www.aerospacemanufacturinganddesign.com/article/supersonic-stealth--f-35-takes-to-the-skies/

"BAE Systems' experience with military aircraft ensures fast and precise design and engineering of the F-35 airframe, mission systems, aft fuselage and empennage, while meeting the F-35's stringent stealth requirements"

 

[Indos]

@Indos
@cabatli_53


Bros, I think this settles it as to UK gaining real valuable stealth experience on the F-35. Remember they were an equal sub-contractor with Northrop Grumman, with Lockheed Martin being the lead contractor.

While UK may not have gained access to the stealth materials used in the F-35, it definitely learnt a lot about stealth shaping and manufacturing of the stealth airframe from it's involvement.


https://www.aerospacemanufacturinganddesign.com/article/supersonic-stealth--f-35-takes-to-the-skies/

"BAE Systems' experience with military aircraft ensures fast and precise design and engineering of the F-35 airframe, mission systems, aft fuselage and empennage, while meeting the F-35's stringent stealth requirements"

I dont think BAE contribute on the design as BAE contribution is written clearly in the last section of the report: More like component supplier, but of course producing critical component is really important on the program. From this we can conclude that preliminary design and detail design of F 35 is a work of only LM and Northrop Grumman.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE JSF TECH TEAM

Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company is the prime contractor for the F-35 JSF program. The company is responsible for the design, supervision and support of all major subsystems of the aircraft. Lockheed Martin is also in charge of producing the forward fuselage and wings, and, along with the governmentoperated JSF Program Office, has the ultimate responsibility to deliver the F-35 and its support systems. Final assembly of the F-35 will take place at Lockheed Martin's factory in Fort Worth, TX.

Northrop Grumman is designing and integrating the center fuselage section of the F-35, including incorporation of the subsystems and development of a large fraction of the F-35 mission systems software, ground and flight test support, signature and low-observables development support, and modeling and simulation activities support. Northrop Grumman is also in charge of the fire control radar and the electrooptical distributed aperture system. The company is responsible for the integrated communications, navigation and identification avionics suite and the training courseware. BAE Systems' experience with military aircraft ensures fast and precise design and engineering of the F-35 airframe, mission systems, aft fuselage and empennage, while meeting the F-35's stringent stealth requirements.

BAE Systems' is also responsible for the fuel system, crew escape, lifesupport system, and Prognostics and Health management system integration. The company shares the work load in autonomic logistics and is involved in the Integrated Test Force, including vehicle and mission systems flight test. The F-35 electronic warfare systems suite is BAE's work, as is the vehicle management computer and the communications, navigation and identification modules. The company provides advanced affordable and lowobservable apertures (antennas), as well as the pilot's control stick and throttle.

 

[UKBengali]

I dont think BAE contribute on the design as BAE contribution is written clearly in the last section of the report: More like component supplier, but of course producing critical component is really important on the program. From this we can conclude that preliminary design and detail design of F 35 is a work of only LM and Northrop Grumman.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THE JSF TECH TEAM

Lockheed Martin Aeronautics Company is the prime contractor for the F-35 JSF program. The company is responsible for the design, supervision and support of all major subsystems of the aircraft. Lockheed Martin is also in charge of producing the forward fuselage and wings, and, along with the governmentoperated JSF Program Office, has the ultimate responsibility to deliver the F-35 and its support systems. Final assembly of the F-35 will take place at Lockheed Martin's factory in Fort Worth, TX.

Northrop Grumman is designing and integrating the center fuselage section of the F-35, including incorporation of the subsystems and development of a large fraction of the F-35 mission systems software, ground and flight test support, signature and low-observables development support, and modeling and simulation activities support. Northrop Grumman is also in charge of the fire control radar and the electrooptical distributed aperture system. The company is responsible for the integrated communications, navigation and identification avionics suite and the training courseware. BAE Systems' experience with military aircraft ensures fast and precise design and engineering of the F-35 airframe, mission systems, aft fuselage and empennage, while meeting the F-35's stringent stealth requirements.

BAE Systems' is also responsible for the fuel system, crew escape, lifesupport system, and Prognostics and Health management system integration. The company shares the work load in autonomic logistics and is involved in the Integrated Test Force, including vehicle and mission systems flight test. The F-35 electronic warfare systems suite is BAE's work, as is the vehicle management computer and the communications, navigation and identification modules. The company provides advanced affordable and lowobservable apertures (antennas), as well as the pilot's control stick and throttle.

The bolded disagrees with you.

Not only did BAe work on all this but RR contributed 40% of the backup F136 engine that was dropped after being 80% complete and RR produced the swivel nozzle system on the primary F135 P&W engine

BAe may have done just as much stealth design as Northrop Grumman did. UK had successfully designed a stealth demonstrator aircraft and so had something to offer the US in this area.

A component supplier is a Tier 2 partner whereas the UK is Tier 1, where they get to influence the design of the F-35.