Babur Cruise Missile Discussion

[Nasir]

Guys now it is confirmed that the Babur cruise missile can be launched through submarines and aircrafts. Do you guys think that Mirage, P-3C Orions, F-16s, A-5s will be able to carrry it? I believe A-5s can carry Babur cruise missiles because they are said to be capable of delivering nuclear weapons, and being it a cruise missile it shouldn't have any problem, once the aircraft releases the Babur, then Babur can automatically use its guidance system to complete its mission. I think it is a very good advancement for our forces and it will really help them out.

Pakistan to continue missile development programme
(DPA)
4 April 2006



ISLAMABAD - Pakistan on Tuesday vowed to continue its missile development programme as part of its efforts to maintain ”minimum credible deterrence.”
“We conduct missile tests as part of efforts to maintain minimum credible deterrence and will continue the programme,” foreign ministry spokesperson Tasneem Aslam told a press briefing in Islamabad.
Aslam had been asked whether missile testing by Pakistan and India is not contrary to an understanding reached between them while launching the peace process two years ago on reducing defence expenditures.
Pakistan has successfully test-fired an upgraded version of the nuclear-capable cruise missile Babur, or HATAF-VII, with a range of up to 500 kilometres.
The first test of the locally-built weapon last August was of a ground-launch version of the Babur missile, while the updated version can be launched from submarines and surface ships.
Pakistan has been test-firing different versions of long-, short- and medium-range delivery systems since April 1998 when it first conducted a test of the Ghauri-1 intermediate range missile, which can hit targets as far away as 1,500 kilometres and is capable of carrying nuclear and conventional warheads.
A senior Indian lawmaker, Nirmala Deshpande, recently urged citizens of Pakistan and India to stop their respective governments from promoting an arms race in South Asia.
“A South Asia that is free of an arms race is in the interest of both Pakistan and India,” said Deshpande, a member of the Indian Rajya Sabha or Senate, who was in Karachi last Month to attend the World Social Forum (WSF) meeting.
Nuclear-armed neighbours Pakistan and India, which have fought three wars since independence from Britain in 1947, initiated a peace process, also known as the composite dialogue, in January 2004 to resolve their outstanding disputes, including the Kashmir issue.

 

[Bull]

Guys now it is confirmed that the Babur cruise missile can be launched through submarines and aircrafts.

I think the guy was wrongly quoted as when the tests happened it was quoted as a upgraded version with extended range of 500Km

"Pakistan on Tuesday successfully test-fired a nuclear-capable cruise missile for the second time, without informing rival India, officials said. The terrain-hugging Hatf VII Babur missile has a range of 500 kilometres (310 miles) and can carry all kinds of warheads, a senior military official told AFP.
The Babur could in future also be placed in submarines and on ships, the military statement said."

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticle.asp?xfile=data/subcontinent/2006/March/subcontinent_March797.xml&section=subcontinent&col=

 

[Neo]

Thats right, Pakistan is working on Babur's naval version and so far has not demonstrated the capability.
Sofar, both tests were made from ground.

 

[Neo]

Cosidering the secrecy Pakistani defence industry keeps, I would not be surprised if the naval version is testfired tomorrow, next week or month.

For sure we're working on it. :thumbsup:

 

[EagleEyes]

Though the question remains what frigate or ship will be able to fire it.

 

[Kaiser]

Though the question remains what frigate or ship will be able to fire it.

They might be working on a naval version of babur exclusively for the jalat class. While they might have already tested the launcher for the naval babur which will be used on the Tariq, and leander class. Future cadidates will include the deadly spruance class (upto 60 baburs!) and F-22p(6-10 baburs).

 

[sword9]

As Pakistani sources the Babur’s design is based on the Tomahawk cruise missile, hence it seems unlikely that the missile can be launched from an aircraft. The missile is vertically launched – so how does one fire such a missile from an aircraft? Unless the missile is launched by flying the aircraft vertically.
IMO, the air launched version would probably be a different missile altogether. The current Babur is a naval (in the near future) and land based weapon system.

 

[Comanche]

As Pakistani sources the Babur’s design is based on the Tomahawk cruise missile, hence it seems unlikely that the missile can be launched from an aircraft. The missile is vertically launched – so how does one fire such a missile from an aircraft? Unless the missile is launched by flying the aircraft vertically.
IMO, the air launched version would probably be a different missile altogether. The current Babur is a naval (in the near future) and land based weapon system.

how does babur cm compare to the russian barmos missile or yakhont? is india giving iran the russian bramose to scare usa to not attack ?

 

[sword9]

how does babur cm compare to the russian barmos missile or yakhont? is india giving iran the russian bramose to scare usa to not attack ?

The Indo-Russian BhraMos range is 300 km and supersonic, while the Babur's range is 500km and is subsonic.

 

[Bull]

how does babur cm compare to the russian barmos missile or yakhont? is india giving iran the russian bramose to scare usa to not attack ?

The US wont get scared by a 300 km supersonic cruise missile.And india supplying anything to iran wud jeopardise the current Indo-US honeymoon.

 

[MOO]

The Babur cruise missile and the Brahmos is entirely different from one another and has has no similar role from one another. Babur was made for surface to surface targets while the Brahmos with its speed is more of an anti-ship missile. It would be a good idea to integrate Babur into Pakistans sub fleet, and also F22 frigates from China. A very deadly weapon indeed.

 

[EagleEyes]

There are some points that i would like to put up in this thread.

Salmaan has some good points and i agree with them, but when we are comparing the capability of two cruise missiles, let me give you some disadvantages of Brahmose cruise missile and advantages of Babur cruise missile being it a subsonic cruise missile.

When Brahmose is launched, its high speed causes severe airframe heating that prevents them using infra-red guidance system, where as Babur can use the infra-red guidance system very effectively. It might be possible that due to high speed of Brahmose cruise missile it will just go straight, or at best it might curve a little. Brahmose has a heat plume that a thermal sight can detect while the missile is still kilometers over the horizon.

There are systems like adaptive and interactive guidance systems which simply cannot be used with Brahmose cruise missiles due to its hypersonic speed. On the other hand Babur can use such systems and have a relatively low signature so can be more difficult to be detected.

 

[Jay_]

Brahmos currently has a range under 300kms. Now calculate the time it would take to travel this distance in Mach 2.8.
And pretty much all supersonic airframes use titanium to take care of heatin, but I dont have any data for Brahmos, I assume they use the same titanium skin like other airframes.

Also Brahmos is supposed to have low RCS and the radar seeker is activated in the terminal phase (reportedly 45-50kms), the defender will not have enough time for counter measures. And remember Brahmos has a 300kg KE warhead, so a multiple salvo attack with different profiles will defn be potent that a subsonic CM. And all the while Brahmos also make manuevers in its terminal phase which make it extremely difficult to shoot down.

And remember its going to go against PLAN and PN, both has no significant air assets and both the navies have no credible long range SAM's.

 

[sigatoka]

The problem with the Brahmos is that its supersonic speed hinders it in its ability to deliver chemical weapons without destroying significant proportion of payload. This is a weakness that Babur doesnt have. Also Babur's greater payload will make it easier to mate it with nuclear payload than the Brahmos. All this adds to make the Babur a much more versatile platform without being significantly more expensive.

 

[Jay_]

In the current version, Brahmos is always going to have KE explosives And I dont se why a nation would have Chemical warhead on their cruise missiles.

And with 300 kms, there is no need to nuke tip it, we have BM's to do that job. The extended version possible SLCM's and LACM's would have a different payload altogether.

I dont see a nation using a short range cruise missile for nuclear payload. We have BM's to do that job.