Babur Cruise Missile - Database

[Safriz]

Pakistan will have their own imaging satellite soon..
But lets not make any mistakes,Pakistan has full access to Chinese and commercially available SAR satellites and has enough data already to generate useful TERCOM maps for Cruise missiles.
This institution in Rawat near Islamabad is doing this as we speak,and there is one more similar station near Gawadar or Karachi...
Unfortunately or Fortunately none of these Satellite Monitoring stations are advertised and are kept secret.
Satellite Data Acquisition Zone

 

[Safriz]

For TERCOM Babur needs something called ORTHOIMAGE
and SUPARCO already has extensive ORTHOIMAGE databse of the region.

Special Data Products

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Is this possible to guide/control the cruise missile from AWACS?

 

[gambit]

and i cannot understand how babur is stealth?
Is it the material? Some special coating? The design?

the stealth is mainly attributed to its low terrain hugging flight path, enabling it to fly under the range of ground radars and some what to the composite fuselage. it do not have radar absorbent paint coatings as in the fifth generation fighter like F-22 or F-35

Whooooppsss...

Two things:

- Radar avoidance
- Low radar observability

Radar avoidance is about finding an active radar transmission, which may include a network of discrete stations, and avoid being in EM contact with said transmission. Terrain following is about being BELOW the radar horizon of said transmission. If there is a network, navigation through the inevitable gaps in said network is radar avoidance.

Low radar observability, aka 'stealth', is about being in actual EM contact of a transmission but the body somehow reflects so low of an EM response that the seeking radar dismiss such a low level signal as insignificant. So 'stealth' is actually a double threat in that the 'stealth' aircraft can have absolutely no EM response at all by flying below the radar horizon and if the situation compelled it to be in EM contact with a radar transmission its EM response will be so low that it will be discarded by the seeking radar.

The distinction is important.

 

[Last Hope]

Is this possible to guide/control the cruise missile from AWACS?

It maybe possible if you produce a missile that could be remotely controlled and integrate it with an AWACS or AEW&C. But you need to make some modifications in the plane too.

 

[gambit]

Is this possible to guide/control the cruise missile from AWACS?

Yes, but not necessary. A cruise missile is essentially an aircraft. If it have such sophistication like terrain following (TF) then its avionics are sophisticated enough to be guided, not controlled. There is a difference. In principle, it is no different than if the AWACS issued a verbal instruction to a live pilot in another aircraft and trust the pilot to obey.

 

[Bratva]

Yes, but not necessary. A cruise missile is essentially an aircraft. If it have such sophistication like terrain following (TF) then its avionics are sophisticated enough to be guided, not controlled. There is a difference. In principle, it is no different than if the AWACS issued a verbal instruction to a live pilot in another aircraft and trust the pilot to obey.

Gambit, please kindly explain, Why Tomahawk failed in a desert terrain and why it's a success in a terrain where there is hills, forests

 

[gambit]

Gambit, please kindly explain, Why Tomahawk failed in a desert terrain and why it's a success in a terrain where there is hills, forests

Do you have data that shows a consistent failure in desert terrain? There is not enough information here. Sorry.

 

[Bratva]

Do you have data that shows a consistent failure in desert terrain? There is not enough information here. Sorry.

Ok let me rephrase my question. Why TERCOM face difficulty in recognizing Flat surfaces like of desert. First Iraq War showed that problem.

 

[Peaceful Civilian]

Self delete

 

[gambit]

Ok let me rephrase my question. Why TERCOM face difficulty in recognizing Flat surfaces like of desert. First Iraq War showed that problem.

Where is your data? In God We Trust, Everyone Else Please Bring Your Data. Anecdotes do not count. You must show a consistent and persistent flow of when the system encounter 'desert' terrain it failed therefore the cruise missile crashed.

 

[The SC]

The desert is ever changing and the movement of sand dunes is unpredictable, it is like the sea, so it needs a specific cruise missile, and this applies to any other weapon system as a matter of fact.

 

[gambit]

The desert is ever changing and the movement of sand dunes is unpredictable, it is like the sea, so it needs a specific cruise missile, and this applies to any other weapon system as a matter of fact.

Stop making up things that you do not understand. Sand dunes movements are nowhere as RAPIDLY mobile as sea states. It does not 'need' a specific type of cruise missile. Yours is a made up 'fact'.

 

[Desert Fox]

Ok let me rephrase my question. Why TERCOM face difficulty in recognizing Flat surfaces like of desert. First Iraq War showed that problem.

If the Americans have GPS why would they use TERCOM as the main guidance system for their missiles?

In Pakistan's case it is understandable that Pakistan uses inertial and TERCOM since GPS would not be a reliable guidance source for Pakistani missiles, but not in America's case.

This is just my view.

Whooooppsss...

Two things:

- Radar avoidance
- Low radar observability

Radar avoidance is about finding an active radar transmission, which may include a network of discrete stations, and avoid being in EM contact with said transmission. Terrain following is about being BELOW the radar horizon of said transmission. If there is a network, navigation through the inevitable gaps in said network is radar avoidance.

Low radar observability, aka 'stealth', is about being in actual EM contact of a transmission but the body somehow reflects so low of an EM response that the seeking radar dismiss such a low level signal as insignificant. So 'stealth' is actually a double threat in that the 'stealth' aircraft can have absolutely no EM response at all by flying below the radar horizon and if the situation compelled it to be in EM contact with a radar transmission its EM response will be so low that it will be discarded by the seeking radar.

The distinction is important.

I'm glad we have knowledgeable members like you.

 

[Safriz]

If the Americans have GPS why would they use TERCOM as the main guidance system for their missiles?
.

Google the keyword "WGS84 Datum" .
GPS provides height above that datum which in simple words is height above sea level. It does not give you height above ground,or hill,or mountain.
TERCOM gives you height above terrain,not sea level.
So its necessary even for american cruise missiles with military grade own GPS.