Babur 3 only a Stop-Gap, Pakistan needs real SLBM

[Safriz]

How do you figure that?

H. Khan.........
There is something else also coming. Unrelated to submarine but will be a surprise

 

[MilSpec]

Sorry I am wrong. K 15 is based on Brahmos

Brilliant, Indeed...

 

[BHarwana]

Brilliant, Indeed...

No noticed something later. During K15 launch why was there a nose cap in the stage when the missile left water and became air born.

That nose cap was protecting air in takes for the jet engines

and delay in the firing of jet engine was similar to that of ramjet not solid fuel or liquid fuel rocket.

As K15 uses gas ejection there was no need of booster. the booster was used to provide Ramjet the startup speed.

 

[MilSpec]

No noticed something later. During K15 launch why was there a nose cap in the stage when the missile left water and became air born.

That nose cap was protecting air in takes for the jet engines

and delay in the firing of jet engine was similar to that of ramjet not solid fuel or liquid fuel rocket.

As K15 uses gas ejection there was no need of booster. the booster was used to provide Ramjet the startup speed.

Brilliant Again, @The Deterrent

 

[BHarwana]

Brilliant Again

I am just explaining what i observed in the launch video and I am not wrong in my conclusion. You are showing just criticism and no facts.

 

[amardeep mishra]

This SLCM uses two types of propulsions solid state and turbojet. Irani has 2000 to 3000 km range and only uses solid state. with using solid state the missile attains more range but loses other advantages of stealth.

Hi my dear friend!
So,how many aerospace projects have you actually worked one?You must have a decent knowledge! Anyways,lets get some facts straight,shall we?
1) A cruise missile utilizing solid rocket motor for primary propulsion will be far more heavy than a cruise missile employing turbofan(given they are designed for the same range)-Period! You are free to consult any engineering literature of your choice!

2)Stealth doesnt come from being solid rocket or not.Stealth comes from a host of other parameters ranging from aspect angle,aspect area,geometry of the missile to name a few(kindly note this is not an exhaustive list). Another advantage a turbofan powered cruise missile has --is--itz ability to fly very low. Had it been a solid fuel missile,it would have needed a pretty big rocket to enable it to fly for lets say 1500km at 100m altitude throughout thanks to drag encountered!

3)Then there are issues with the burn time of the solid rockets. You cant have a single solid rocket that can burn continuously for 72 mins(Nirbhay's successful test had a range of 1050kms that lasted for close to 72mins). You'd have to inevitably go for staging which will make your design very heavy and unpractical--kindly note even the ICBMs burn for just couple of mins till the "burnout point" is reached!

K15 uses solid state rocket for the first stage at least so they are diffirent

Sorry but K-15 has "two" solid rocket motors and no liquid engine as you are hypothesizing here.Kindly do your homework thoroughly

 

[MilSpec]

I am just explaining what i observed in the launch video and I am not wrong in my conclusion. You are showing just criticism and no facts.

It's quite difficult to counter stupidity with facts, but lets give it a shot, i am sure it will be entertaining.

K15 Sagarika and it's land based derrivative Shaurya are Two stage Solid Fuel quali Ballistic missile. the nature of Propulsion is not for debate upto whims and fancy of amateur defence experts evaluating youtube videos. It is what it is.

Brahmos Doesn't use a "jet engine" which is a characterized moniker for turbofan or turbojet engines, but specifically uses a Ramjet Engine,

Ramjet propulsion in brahmos utilises liqued fuel, There is no Liquid fuel in K15 Sagarika, and neither are there any air intakes for any ramjet propulsion.

propulsion sub-system for the second stage on K15 sagarika throttleable ducted solid rocket, which has no whatsoever relation with brahmos.

And for further disambiguation, the second stage in K15 Sagarika Is just a solid fueled motor, not a Scramjet, not a pulse jet, not a ramjet, not a turboprop, not a V8Hemi, not a v6 inline, or a 100cc moped engine. It's just solid fuel rocket engine.

And for the other experts who seem to claim k15 sagarika was developed from Brahmos, I have nothing to say... maybe @The Deterrent would beat some sense into them.

 

[BHarwana]

Sorry but K-15 has "two" solid rocket motors and no liquid engine as you are hypothesizing here.Kindly do your homework thoroughly

If it has two solid state rockets then why it uses a detach able nose cap. That comes of when the missile enters air from water. What is that cap protecting?

It's quite difficult to counter stupidity with facts, but lets give it a shot, i am sure it will be entertaining.

K15 Sagarika and it's land based derrivative Shaurya are Two stage Solid Fuel quali Ballistic missile. the nature of Propulsion is not for debate upto whims and fancy of amateur defence experts evaluating youtube videos. It is what it is.

Brahmos Doesn't use a "jet engine" which is a characterized moniker for turbofan or turbojet engines, but specifically uses a Ramjet Engine,

Ramjet propulsion in brahmos utilises liqued fuel, There is no Liquid fuel in K15 Sagarika, and neither are there any air intakes for any ramjet propulsion.

propulsion sub-system for the second stage on K15 sagarika throttleable ducted solid rocket, which has no whatsoever relation with brahmos.

And for further disambiguation, the second stage in K15 Sagarika Is just a solid state motoe, not a Scramjet, not a pulse jet, not a ramjet, not a turboprop, not a V8Hemi, not a v6 inline with supercharger. It's just solid fuel rocket engine.

And for the other experts who seem to claim k15 sagarika was developed from Brahmos, I have nothing to say... maybe @The Deterrent would beat some sense into them.

Are you stupid Ramjet is a type of jet engine
Now if K15 is not ramjet why is there a heavy nose cap on the missile which ejects when that missile comes out of water. That cap is there to protect some thing and that something is the intakes of ramjet engine. Why place a heavy cap on the missile and design an entire system to take it off in air. Answer this question all you two are doing is giving info about K15 but not answering the question. I can read the info you two are providing my self on the internet. You people don't know a thing about the rockets just bunch of noobs.

you two defenders of K15 don't know a thing about that nose cap and why that is placed on top of the missile. Please don't act noob, you don't know who you are talking to or what my understanding is but from your answer you two have just the knowledge available on the internet.

 

[amardeep mishra]

If it has two solid state rockets then why it uses a detach able nose cap. That comes of when the missile enters air from water. What is that cap protecting?

That is because they have different dynamics underwater. A blunt tear drop shape is more preferred underwater.

 

[BHarwana]

This is a gas ejection system so there is no need of underwater water dynamics. and with a gas ejection system you people are using boosters so why dynamics if there is a booster.

That is because they have different dynamics underwater. A blunt tear drop shape is more preferred underwater.

How much advantage could dynamics provide that cap weight will not compromise. The cap comes off in booster stage not after why not after why was there a need to time cap's ejection before booster stage is over because the intakes needed air while being in booster stage to start up.

 

[amardeep mishra]

I can read the info you two are providing my self on the internet. You people don't know a thing about the rockets just bunch of noobs.

It is not wise to call others noobs especially when that other person is way above your educational qualifications. Also note,no one is defending anything,Please understand one thing and that is--unlike your country pakistan,India is much more transparent when it comes to defence research.We dont have to hide anything. If you follow the statements and publications of DRDO/ISRO they do spell out successes and failures regularly. To be quite honest Russia hasnt parted away with their liquid ramjet technology so any chance of "reverse engineering" or morphing it into our own indigenous project is mere wishful thinking. Liquid ramjet engine of brahmos is still imported from russia. Only very recently has india started working on indigenous liquid ramjet.

The cap comes off in booster stage not after why not after why was there a need to time cap's ejection before booster stage is over because the intakes needed air while being in booster stage to start up.

I dont know what books your read but the nose cap is not there because it has to protect any air takes.It is there to make favorable hydrodynamics.
Watch this video of R-39

Of course in the video above,there is also a nose mounted gas generator.

 

[Safriz]

^^^^^
Hi
Don't mean to interfere but nose cap on K-15 is to turn and stabilize the missile if it leaves the water at an angle.
K-15 don't have thrust vectoring as every other SLBM has. So it needs a, nose cap with rocket motors giving short burst of thrust to upright the missile.
It's a botched up old tech and most probably will be skipped for K-4

Moreover the system of R-39 gas generator on top is used when submarine VLS is weak and cannot generate enough upward thrust to push the missile all the way out of the water. Same as K-4 will use such system on Indian Arihant which is a small Submarine for the size n weight of K-4.

 

[BHarwana]

Look in the K15 video the the nose cap is designed to eject in the booster stage. which is a more dangerous stage for a missile. there are five rockets specially designed to take off the nose cap four are used to fire down to lift the nose cap above the missile then there is one designed to fire to the right side to direct the nose cap away from the path of the missile. This all has been designed to happen when the missile is in vertical position and this all happens few seconds as the missile is in booster stage. if the nose cap was for under water aerodynamics why not take it of in the horizontal position when the missile is using so called solid state rocket. which is much easier to do and will require less rockets.

I dont know what books your read but the nose cap is not there because it has to protect any air takes.It is there to make favorable hydrodynamics.

The designer took so much head ache to design the ejection system which will have no or little effects on aerodynamics. They did a massive calculation to time just a nose cap whose weight balances any aerodynamically advantage it gives to the missile.

There is a ramjet engine underthere.

Then lets move to the stage where the K15 drops the booster and the motor takes time to fire.

and my apologies for calling you a noob the other guy was pissing me off

 

[Safriz]

Look in the K15 video the the nose cap is designed to eject in the booster stage. which is a more dangerous stage for a missile. there are five rockets specially designed to take off the nose cap four are used to fire down to lift the nose cap above the missile then there is one designed to fire to the right side to direct the nose cap away from the path of the missile. This all has been designed to happen when the missile is in vertical position and this all happens few seconds as the missile is in booster stage. if the nose cap was for under water aerodynamics why not take it of in the horizontal position when the missile is using so called solid state rocket. which is much easier to do and will require less rockets.


The designer took so much head ache to design the ejection system which will have no or little effects on aerodynamics. They did a massive calculation to time just a nose cap whose weight balances any aerodynamically advantage it gives to the missile.

There is a ramjet engine underthere.

Then lets move to the stage where the K15 drops the booster and the motor takes time to fire.

and my apologies for calling you a noob the other guy was pissing me off

There is no ramjet on K-15. The pupose of, nose cap is explained above.
The missile lacks Thrust vectoring, and carries the first stage all the way. There is no stage separation after booster falls off.
The first stage carries the fixed big fins for stability and small movable fins for steering.
Again world's only SLBM which needs booster and fins.

 

[BHarwana]

Sir you are wrong. the nose cap is not stabilizing. No idot designer will put the stabilizing rockets in the nose it will give the missile too sharp steering by putting rockets in the nose and those rockets are designed to take of the cap and nothing else. the thrust direction is just to lift the cap not to pivot the missile. Please let him answer.

There is no ramjet on K-15. The pupose of, nose cap is explained above.
The missile lacks Thrust vectoring, and carries the first stage all the way. There is no stage separation after booster falls off.
The first stage carries the fixed big fins for stability and small movable fins for steering.
Again world's only SLBM which needs booster and fins.