Azerbaijan Defence Programs & Military Development

[LordTyrannus]

We are discussing performance about T-129 in this thread. Not Russian rebels actions.

Turkish flir weighs 93 kg, while advanced western 3rd gen. FLIR are much lighter, weigh under 50 kg with much higher performance.

This is the latest western FLIR. 48 kg

http://gs.flir.com/uploads/file/products/brochures/star_safire_380-hld_a_ltr.pdf

@LordTyrannus @cabatli_53
I think it can be an interesting discussion if both sides avoid trolling and insulting. I am looking forward to read your discussion about T-129. Also a comparison of T-129 with mil mi 28, mil mi 35-M, and Kamov Ka 50-52 would be good.

The Russian systems lack a major update in electronics. But if Azeri government is interested in purchasing them, than Russian authorities can sure do good contract with modernisation of all electronic parts to western standards. Sino-Russian alliance is easyly able to achieve that.

 

[Targon]

I told you that your butt would be handed

 

[LordTyrannus]

Azeri government is not interested in your overpriced heavy subsystems. They will get Russian attack chopper with modernisation of all electronic subsystems to western standards.

 

[rmi5]

that would b illogical. thery're intended for completely different roles. t129 max. takeoff weight 5000 kg, mi28 around 12000 kg and ka50 around 11000 kg. you'd better compare them with apaches.

What Cabatli said in his last post, was somehow comparing T-129 with Apache, and Mi 24/35 and called them outdated old designed junks. I think that's obviously very irrational. Anyway, what would be the result if we compare these helicopters? Russians have 3 state of the art helicopters to sell, and Turkey has one option to sell, and Cabatli is arrogant about it.

 

[cabatli_53]

We are discussing performance about T-129 in this thread. Not Russian rebels actions.

Turkish flir weighs 93 kg, while advanced western 3rd gen. FLIR are much lighter, weigh under 50 kg with much higher performance.

This is the latest western FLIR. 48 kg

http://gs.flir.com/uploads/file/products/brochures/star_safire_380-hld_a_ltr.pdf

The Russian systems lack a major update in electronics. But if Azeri government is interested in purchasing them, than Russian authorities can sure do good contract with modernisation of all electronic parts to western standards. Sino-Russian alliance is easyly able to achieve that.

Anyway, To compare Flirs, You should seperate them in accordance with generations. Comparing of 2nd generation Flir with 3nd generation one doesn't make much sense.

 

[rmi5]

Azeri government is not interested in your overpriced heavy subsystems. They will get Russian attack chopper with modernisation of all electronic subsystems to western standards.

The main concern of Azerbaijanis is not about technical issues. Russian technology in every field of military equipments is a battle proved widely used and state of the art technology, and Azerbaijani military has already used and currently using Russian arms and is very familiar with them. The main concern is about avoiding to sell spare parts or giving technical assistance in a war with Armenia, since Armenia is your close friend as well.

 

[cabatli_53]

What Cabatli said in his last post, was somehow comparing T-129 with Apache, and Mi 24/35 and called them outdated old designed junks. I think that's obviously very irrational. Anyway, what would be the result if we compare these helicopters? Russians have 3 state of the art helicopters to sell, and Turkey has one option to sell, and Cabatli is arrogant about it.

Do you have some problem with your mind or Selecting some words to create an excuse became a habit of yourself ? I typed "Outdated platform of the World" as a response to What Russian poster claimed regarding A129 design(1980's) history. That sentences are typed to emphasize an Apache like superior platform along with others are designed in 1970's. Bitching around the Words doesn't lead you anywhere. Firstly, Back up your claims as a man and Tell us Why Turkish products are inferior regarding Quality against Russian equivalents, or at least just keep your silence.

Azeri government is not interested in your overpriced heavy subsystems. They will get Russian attack chopper with modernisation of all electronic subsystems to western standards.

Don't worry, Turkish products are in western standarts. Turks are upgrading your outdated tanks, attack helicopters in countries using your hardware. Russian institutes are eliminated by Turks many times at international tenders.

 

[rmi5]

Do you have some problem with your mind or Selecting some words to create an excuse became a habit of yourself ? I typed "Outdated platform of the World" as a response to What Russian poster claimed regarding A129 design history. Bitching around the Words doesn't lead you anywhere. Firstly, Back your claims a man and Tell us Why Turkish products are inferior regarding Quality against Russian equivalents, or at least just keep your silence...

I don't understand your aggressive attitude, but, it is obvious for me that Mi 35, Mi 28, and Ka50-52 are much better choices than T-129 for Azerbaijan. T-129 can be useful against kurdish guerrillas but it has a very low capacity to carry weapons, and is not much useful against an standing army like Armenia. Mi 35 can carry 8 person as well, and outperforms T-129 in almost every specification. it is also based on the battle proved designs which are bought and used by many countries, ...
BTW, you with an arrogant manner said that Apache is an outdated 1970's design that one might think that T-129 is even comparable with Apache. Calling a helicopter like Mi 35 as old soviet junk is another mindless point in your comments.

 

[xxxKULxxx]

Guys, you know what ?.. I love when someone makes Cabatli angry !..

Anyone agree ?..

 

[cabatli_53]

I don't understand your aggressive attitude, but, it is obvious for me that Mi 35, Mi 28, and Ka50-52 are much better choices than T-129 for Azerbaijan. T-129 can be useful against kurdish guerrillas but it has a very low capacity to carry weapons, and is not much useful against an standing army like Armenia. Mi 35 can carry 8 person as well, and outperforms T-129 in every specification. it is also based on the battle proved designs which are bought and used by many countries, ...
BTW, you with an arrogant manner said that Apache is an outdated 1970's design that one might think that T-129 is even comparable with Apache. Calling a helicopter like Mi 35 as old soviet junk is another mindless point in your comments.

Being a better choice or not is depend on many criterias. Above statement regarding Azerbaijani need just reflect your personnel thinking and never prove anything regaring being inferior against Russian systems.

We always underlined that T-129 is a light attack helicopter so They naturally can't cope with heavy copters on some specifications but You have already been insisting on comparing it with Atak. Ok...

-With crew on board, Mi35 can carry just 4 AT missiles. Without crew, It carries up to 8.
-In techically, T-129 wing paylons can carry up to 16 AT missiles, despite current configuration are shaped with 8 AT missiles + tens of cirit missiles + 2 AA missiles on wings.

-Mi-35 has a range of 450km, While Atak has a range of 570km, With additional fuel tanks, It exceed 1000km.
-Mi-35 can climb up to 16000ft, While Atak 20000ft. It is one of the best attack helicopter in terms of high-hot performance...
-You never want to compare rate of climb and power to weight ratios which gives a clue How quick copters are on air. Believe me...

Do you need to type more to prove How light copter Atak outperforms Mi-35 Although you claim that It can beat Atak in every specifications ???

Did you get now Without having any idea How You are throwing biassed empty claims regarding Turkish systems to make favour of Russians against Turks ?

 

[Targon]

Guys, you know what ?.. I love when someone makes Cabatli angry !..

Anyone agree ?..

Yeah, we learn a lot of new things

 

[rmi5]

Being a better choice or not is depend on many criterias. Above statement regarding Azerbaijani need just reflect your personnel thinking and never prove anything regaring being inferior against Russian Mi-35.

We always underlined that T-129 is a light attack helicopter so They naturally can't cope with heavy copters but You have already been insisting on comparing it with Atak. Ok...

-With crew on board, Mi35 can carry just 4 AT missiles. Without crew, It carries up to 8 as far as I know).
-In techically, T-129 wing paylons can carry up to 16 AT missiles, despite current configuration are shaped with 8 AT missiles + tens of cirit missiles on wings.

-Mi-35 has a range of 450km, While Atak has a range of 570km, With additional fuel tanks, It exceed 1000km.
-Mi-35 can climb up to 16000ft, While Atak 20000ft. It is one of the best attack helicopter in terms of high-hot performance...

Do you need to type more to prove How light copter Atak outperforms Mi-35 Although you claim that It can beat Atak in every specifications ???

Did you get now Without having any idea How You are throwing biassed empty claims regarding Turkish systems to make favour of Russians against Turks ?

I said they almost outperform your helicopter in any specification.
BTW, why should Azerbaijan care for 450 km or 570 km range? I am asking you, what is the distance between Azerbaijan and the most far location in Armenia? is it even 100 miles?
or you are telling me that its highest altitude is 20, 000 ft. But, what is its advantage for us? We don't need operation in such altitudes. You may need it to counter kurdish guerrillas, but what we are supposed to do with this feature?
Again, carrying more weapons, more troops, being battle proved, ready to be produced and delivered, already existing in our inventory and easy and low costs to train our pilots, much more useful for our terrain, .... all means that Mi-35 is a better choice than T-129.

 

[xxxKULxxx]

Yeah, we learn a lot of new things

Actually one of us should open a fake account to make him angry from time to time...

 

[xenon54 out]

already existing in our inventory

And you think Azerbaijan has the luxury to rely on your enemys big brother? Sooner or later you will have to switch from soviet weapons to western counterparts otherwise Russia will deny you the crucial maintenance of your hardware if you go to a war with Armenia.

 

[asena_great]

And you think Azerbaijan has the luxury to rely on your enemys big brother? Sooner or later you will have to switch from soviet weapons to western counterparts otherwise Russia will deny you the crucial maintenance of your hardware if you go to a war with Armenia.

agree they will also try to use u in other fields military equipment is their card best thing to do is to use both western and eastern equipment