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NK still being controlled by armenians is still recognised as Azerbaijan.

Nothing has changed. Russians are simply there to monitor the ceasefire.

They are there only for 5 years after that either Azerbijan or Armenians of NK can request them to leave.

The idea here is that final status talks should conclude in the next 5 years. There is no conceivable way any territory will be passed to yerevan..... the armenians on only what they now control may get some autonomy but inside azerbijan.

Armenians have lost comprehensively. Azerbaijanis will maintain military edge and will also repopulate their territory. The can wait for the last bits of NK.


Putin is on record saying turks wont participate in peacekeeping....so no boots on ground.

However there would a joint monitoring centre to be set up somewhere where russians and turks will co-operate.

Whilst azerbijan wants turkish involvement the russians do not.

Lets see how things pans out.

Turkey has defense treaty with Azerbaijan so they can deploy and has the right to deploy on the NK azeris held area freely. There can't be any objection to that. Erdogan is right and Turkey will station soldiers in NK
 
According to Reis Erdo'an's public announcement at his party's weekly meeting:
  • Turkish soldiers will be stationed inside Karabag' as per the agreements signed b/w Turkey and Russia
  • Turkish and Russian peace-keepers will work together to maintain peace. They'll build a joint observation and control center
  • Nahchivan will be connected to the AZ mainland via a newly constructed road

Turkey and Russia are shaping the world - European Media

Cry babies cry!!! President Trump is right - these European leaders are good for nothing LGBTs...


Few were doubting Ilham Aliyev but after analysing his moves I realized his very smart. He had full impunity and knew what he was doing in every second. He outsmarted Pashin because he knew how far he could go. His intention was never to attack Armenia proper as it woud invoke Russia's defense treaty with Armenia but he came to them from NK and he knew that Armenia won't be able to defeat him militarily and he knew that if anyone intervened on behalf of Armenia in Artsakh it would invoke Azerbaijan's defense treaty with Turkey and he had the full backing of Erdogan to go ahead and smesh the Armenians and Russia couldn't intervene because it was outside the proper armenia and the defense treaty won't come into play.

After he has made his gains he made sure to shout this door forever on the Armenian side and they won't be able to wage another war down the road in the future because it would trigger the defense treaty with Turkey and Armenia would never pursue such suicidal policy because the costs would outweigh the benefits by 1 to million. The only solution for Armenia is a peaceful co-existence and freedom of trade with both. There is really not much of an option on the table for them they got fully checkmated by Aliyev..
 
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Assalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh to Muslim
& Good day to the rest

Hopefully,
this deal will become like
Treaty of Hudaybiyyah by Prophet s.a.w.

At first it seems detrimental,
but in the long run,
it gives many advantages to Muslim.
Insha Allah.
 
Assalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh to Muslim
& Good day to the rest

Hopefully,
this deal will become like
Treaty of Hudaybiyyah by Prophet s.a.w.

At first it seems detrimental,
but in the long run,
it gives many advantages to Muslim.
Insha Allah.

That is what I think as well. Bottom line Azerbaijan liberated/gotten 7 regions plus parts of Nagorno-Karabagh. It has also signed a treaty while its oil and other economic lifeline were not damaged.

People should understand that Russia has intervened in this conflict in the last minute, so continuing it would've been a war with Russia, in my view. Azerbaijan gotten what they could've gotten under the present circumstances.

That being said, if Russians insist that no Turkish troops in deconflicting lines, then that means they have a sinister agenda.
 
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That is what I think as well. Bottom line Azerbaijan liberated/gotten 7 regions plus parts of Nagorno-Karabagh. It has also signed a treaty while its oil and other economic lifeline were not damaged.

People should understand that Russia has intervened in this conflict in the last minute, so continuing it would've been a war with Russia, in my view. Azerbaijan gotten what they could've gotten under the present circumstances.

That being said, if Russians insist that no Turkish troops in deconflicting lines, then that means they have a sinister agenda.
From the psychological view . It would be very hard for the armenian to see turkish involvement at this volatile time . So it was understandable froma a point . But russia permission were not relevant at this point too . Since Turkish and Azeris were made a defence pact Turkish can literally park their campsite in the Azeri held area close the monitored area and make some bonfire while roasting some goat and singing kumbayas and nothing that russia could do about it . It's the syrian stand off all over again .
 
Assalamu'alaikum warahmatullahi wabarakatuh to Muslim
& Good day to the rest

Americans' Stress, Worry and Anger Intensified in 2018

I know this was a bit old survey (already 2 years old),
but I feel it still relevant.
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source
 
I think it's safe to assume there are alot of trolls on this thread We have had alot of mis-reportings, circulating of false maps and unrealistic political reality on the ground narratives being spewed.

Sorry, your maps are fake. It’s easily verifiable. Anyone can analyse your maps and see what cities AZE has taken and what cities ARM keep. Fake maps will fool people for only so long. We have seen this with Armenian lies too. No need to be like an Armenian
 
False conclusion here. you cant just say because thing hapened its because of another thing- PROVIDE EVIDENCE TO BACK IT UP!


Rusia doesnt have to be and thats what you are incapable of understanding - Russia weilds same or more influence than US in the Middle east for example, and it only has 1 or 2 bases meanwhile US has tons of bases in the middle east and is losing more and more control over the region, it cant even save its allies, thats why they're running to make all sorts of fake and bizarre alliances...because "RICH" US is withdrawing from the region. do you even know whats happening in the world?
Even Iran has more influence in the middle east than the US does. you have a false grandiose image of US power, but the fact is the US doesnt know how to use its power well in the abroad. YOu think economics determines miltary power? thats another thing you misunderstand but try to play off like real knowledge. its bogus!


pointless to state this, no one is a child here.


and? once again no point made.


Yes, thats what im saying and you seem triggered by this,SO PROVE ME WRONG! THe timing alludes to this being right. IT was the same day Azerbaijan shot down the rusian helicopter that they signed the deal! Azerbaijan is a kid in Russia's backyard so they knew they were vulnerable, thats why they signed the deal, to keep the peace and not lose their gains. RUssia can smash any neighbor it wants, especially those not in NATO, so yes, my point still stands, stop trying to bully and silence me with your weak arguments.

you misapplied this saying.

thats how i feel about your weak arguments and fallacies.

thats what TUrkey gets for messing in Russia's neighborhood militarily with no NATO to back her up.
Lol, YOU'RE the one making the claim that the shooting down of the helicopter forced Azerbaijan to sign the deal, and as @raahaat7 has pointed out, the deal was signed before this event.

You prove your claim, as all I'm doing is challenging you on it.

The only one who's triggered here is you, because all I said was you're wrong, and now you're going on a rant that honestly changes nothing.
 
3. Everything Azerbaijan has gained and granted it will fall under Azerbaijani authority which is roughly 85-90% of the contested area.

4. Azerbaijan's sovereignty is irrevocable hence it has defense treaty with Turkey and non-negotiable.

this is clearly fantasy. But I don’t know how you can justify this fantasy and why there is a need to lie about this. Nobody will overthrow aliyev because of this agreement.
Azerbaijan gets 65.5% of the occupied lands. This is so easily verifiable. Again. It’s not that bad comparing to what it had 6 weeks ago.

Azerbaijani sovereignty over 35% is very revocable. It can’t even enter the area. It can’t implement its laws there and it has no sovereignty or control over 35% of the disputed area.

the only difference now is that 90% of karabakh is no longer occupied by Armenia. It is occupied by Russia which will fight a war with Azerbaijan if Azerbaijan tries to recover it’s occupied 3,900 sq km of land.

this may be cause for celebration in Baku, but I do not think it is a good thing. It is not me that will have to fight russia. Thank god russia is 2,000 km away from my country.

yes you can ask russia to leave. Ukraine asked russia to leave a leased base in Sevastapol. Very soon after, it had little green men invading Crimea and Donbas and fighting for ancient Russian lands.

Aliyev of all people should know this. But he decided to play Russian roulette when he had Turkish and Pakistani backing.

maybe it’s a good deal. But be honest about what the deal is. No point hiding it. It will all surface sooner or later.

AZE has met perhaps 100% of its unstated objectives. But it has met only 65.5% of its stated objectives. (To free its land from occupation).

you can trade with no taxes if your good are jsut transiting a country like Georgia to get to turkey.
 
this is clearly fantasy. But I don’t know how you can justify this fantasy and why there is a need to lie about this. Nobody will overthrow aliyev because of this agreement.
Azerbaijan gets 65.5% of the occupied lands. This is so easily verifiable. Again. It’s not that bad comparing to what it had 6 weeks ago.

Azerbaijani sovereignty over 35% is very revocable. It can’t even enter the area. It can’t implement its laws there and it has no sovereignty or control over 35% of the disputed area.

the only difference now is that 90% of karabakh is no longer occupied by Armenia. It is occupied by Russia which will fight a war with Azerbaijan if Azerbaijan tries to recover it’s occupied 3,900 sq km of land.

this may be cause for celebration in Baku, but I do not think it is a good thing. It is not me that will have to fight russia. Thank god russia is 2,000 km away from my country.

yes you can ask russia to leave. Ukraine asked russia to leave a leased base in Sevastapol. Very soon after, it had little green men invading Crimea and Donbas and fighting for ancient Russian lands.

Aliyev of all people should know this. But he decided to play Russian roulette when he had Turkish and Pakistani backing.

maybe it’s a good deal. But be honest about what the deal is. No point hiding it. It will all surface sooner or later.


AZE has met perhaps 100% of its unstated objectives. But it has met only 65.5% of its stated objectives. (To free its land from occupation).

you can trade with no taxes if your good are jsut transiting a country like Georgia to get to turkey.
And azeris would be able to return to NK
what else does baku wants?
Gets all its land..1/3 of NK and rest 2/3 NK its citizen can go return ..
Now if russia wants to sit there for ever..then good luck..but whos going to pay for the govt in NK
Surely not armenia..they would slit the throats of azeris in sleep(a citizen saying it on tv form NK)..its probably going to come from baku..

Its easy to read too much into the deal but we all know why russia did this..armenia was losing and there was risk of complete choas
 
And azeris would be able to return to NK
what else does baku wants?
Gets all its land..1/3 of NK and rest 2/3 NK its citizen can go return ..
Now if russia wants to sit there for ever..then good luck..but whos going to pay for the govt in NK
Surely not armenia..they would slit the throats of azeris in sleep(a citizen saying it on tv form NK)..its probably going to come from baku..

Its easy to read too much into the deal but we all know why russia did this..armenia was losing and there was risk of complete choas

yes there is the possibility that AZE civilians can return to Armenian controlled and Russian occupied NK.

we will have to wait to see the details of this and under what circumstances and conditions.

can they buy land, get their land back, can they come live there if they are from Baku originally. We will see if they get the Palestinian deal, (no movement) or the Bosnian deal (full freedom of movement and right of settlement of every citizen regardless of where they are from). Thus allowing AZE to settle a few hundred thousand azeiris there, and ending this occupation the peaceful way.
Has anyone clarified if the Armenian part of NK is to be regarded as "Azerbaijan territory that is under autonomous control of Armenians" (akin to the serbska republic in Northern Bosnia i believe), or is it actually owned by Yerevan? If ethnic Armenians keep autonomous status in officially recognized Azerbaijan territory, then it's a total victory for Baku. Let them have token autonomy, like those Serbs in Bosnia.

If however, it remains Yerevan controlled, then actually I'm confused because it is STILL occupied as per the UN and whole world's definition! This would be a bizarre status quo and almost seems unresolved.

it will be owned and occupied by Yerevan and protected by russia. Everyone else in the world will consider it a part of Azerbaijan.

BTW, serbs have real and effective and wide ranging autonomy in Bosnia. It’s getting smaller and smaller over the years as realities on the ground dictate that the national government needs to regulate things. But they have a huge input into the national government anyway.

they used to have their own army but they lost it because they sold missile tech to saddam Hussein.

they used to have their own currency but it was deemed economic suicide. So they agreed to a central bank and national currency.

they used to levy tarrifs on imported goods, but it was replaced by a national system and a national tax police.

They used to issue their own car registrations but it was taken away and given to national government because number plates which identified what city you are registered in was deemed to restrict freedom of movement.

they had police but now local police only deal with local crime and traffic laws. National police deal with organised crime and tax evasion etc.

They have their own department of agriculture but it’s proving to be difficult do deal with the EU, so they are being pressured to accept a national department of agriculture.

In all, they have lost something like 90 competencies and they are on track to lose more. So eventually their autonomy will become an empty shell.

azebaijan won’t get to play this game until there is a final peace settlement and they all agree that NK will be a part of Azerbaijan.
If they do that 100,000 Armenians have no chance against 10 million azeiris when it comes to sharing a country.
@thetutle

Don’t be discouraged with different opinions, and you have valid points as well. I feel the truth lies in between. I will write my analysis on Friday in this thread inshallah

Thank your brother, that’s a nice thing to say.

I can not be discouraged to write what is clearly a fact.

What that fact will mean in the real world is up for debate. And that’s what we are all doing.
It’s clearly not a bad deal. But it Carries massive risks and takes away from a total Azeiri victory which was very close.
 
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Below is a comment from a retired Pak Military Officer after I asked him about this agreement:

it favours the Azeris because they had the upper hand in the fighting. What they got from the agreement is what they had fought for. Russia gets to be the Big Brother in the region, and Turkey's influence has been reinforced. The big loser is Armenia, whom everybody failed to support.


I thought Armenia got the support of Kim Kardashian.
So it is a blatant lie to say everybody failed to support Armenia.
 

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