AVIC Presents FC-31 Stealth Fighter model to Pakistan Air Force Chief.

[salman-1]

PAF has developed a habit of hopping one after another aircraft, the one Platforms which are mature and ready for export are avoided like FC-20 and jumps for those which are just not even tested and are on conceptual base like FC-31.
How many countries like us or even more developed are striving for stealth in nearest possible future, even developed countries are not easy on getting hands on F-35, due to budget and mostly the initial risks involved.PAF is no exception should build up its arsenal for what it needs today and bring her self on par with the IAF with good numbers to tackle all 4th gen fighters in IAF like SU-30, Mirage 2k, Mig-29 etc with at least 5 more squadrons i.e 90 FC-20 + 76 F-16

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

PAF has developed a habit of hopping one after another aircraft, the one Platforms which are mature and ready for export are avoided like FC-20 and jumps for those which are just not even tested and are on conceptual base like FC-31.
How many countries like us or even more developed are striving for stealth in nearest possible future, even developed countries are not easy on getting hands on F-35, due to budget and mostly the initial risks involved.PAF is no exception should build up its arsenal for what it needs today and bring her self on par with the IAF with good numbers to tackle all 4th gen fighters in IAF like SU-30, Mirage 2k, Mig-29 etc with at least 5 more squadrons i.e 90 FC-20 + 76 F-16

Sir,
There are a few things in your post that can be looked in a different way.

"PAF has developed a habit of hopping one after another aircraft"
This is because PAF can not get expensive western fighters in a large number. They also know that they are going to be sanction prone.

"the one Platforms which are mature and ready for export are avoided like FC-20"
What advantage and technical innovation can this aircraft provide?

"jumps for those which are just not even tested and are on conceptual base like FC-31."
most of the companies researching and developing new aircraft designs are facing financial problems along with some technical problems. So if some one wishes to invest in these aircraft the companies are going way beyond on offering them a deal that they can not reject.

These include transfer of technology and also lower cost. May be some also offer percentage on future sales to other Air Forces.

There are also further development chances on a new aircraft then that can be done on a mature system.

I do agree that F-35 would not be sold to many countries because they might be considered hostile towards USA or they can not afford.

 

[Rafi]

eh? If I am not mistaken, how can optical sensors be used to fire BVRs (which is a radar guided missile). Raptor uses her LPI radar to track and allow missile to keep its own seeker quite. As far as I can guess, it can only be that optical trackers would have facilitated the initial firing direction of missile,subsequently going hot after a while and searching and tracking the target.....

Electro-Optical-Targeting-System, can be used to attack targets without turning on radar.

 

[SBD-3]

Electro-Optical-Targeting-System, can be used to attack targets without turning on radar.

Okey I can assume that there is an electro-optical TS but how can it communicate with the missile as the radar?
For example an example of such sling shot can be seen in this documentary...B1-R's taking sligshots based on co-ordinates provided by F-22s

 

[Rafi]

Okey I can assume that there is an electro-optical TS but how can it communicate with the missile as the radar?

Not too sure on the technical details, but the Air Force - chaps were very impressed.

 

[SBD-3]

Not too sure on the technical details, but the Air Force - chaps were very impressed.

I know IRSTs can be used in similar role but their range is limited for complete exploitation of BVRs

 

[Rafi]

I know IRSTs can be used in similar role but their range is limited for complete exploitation of BVRs

Apparently this system can be used for long range.

 

[MastanKhan]

eh? If I am not mistaken, how can optical sensors be used to fire BVRs (which is a radar guided missile). Raptor uses her LPI radar to track and allow missile to keep its own seeker quite. As far as I can guess, it can only be that optical trackers would have facilitated the initial firing direction of missile,subsequently going hot after a while and searching and tracking the target.....

Hi,

So you answered the question that you were asking---t

Sir,
There are a few things in your post that can be looked in a different way.

"PAF has developed a habit of hopping one after another aircraft"
This is because PAF can not get expensive western fighters in a large number. They also know that they are going to be sanction prone.

"the one Platforms which are mature and ready for export are avoided like FC-20"
What advantage and technical innovation can this aircraft provide?

"jumps for those which are just not even tested and are on conceptual base like FC-31."
most of the companies researching and developing new aircraft designs are facing financial problems along with some technical problems. So if some one wishes to invest in these aircraft the companies are going way beyond on offering them a deal that they can not reject. .

Hi,

FC 20 will be aesa equipped---that makes it most superior platform for paf---it is already been flown and tested and gone thru the growing pains.

The aesa will put it on par with rafale---Eurofighter---. And as you mentioned the magic word 'sanctions'---it will be free of sanctions.

This aircraft is already in hardcore evaluation by the paf at this time just like the Z helicopter---.

Pak air force problems are a NOW issue----not a futuristic concerns.

How do you know paf could not get expensive aircraft---they had the cash----just because they fckd up---does not make that an excuse---they were just lollygagging about and around for 3 + years----.

And as sanctions are a concern then the F 16 would be useless in times of need----.

 

[ACE OF THE AIR]

Hi,

So you answered the question that you were asking---t


Hi,

FC 20 will be aesa equipped---that makes it most superior platform for paf---it is already been flown and tested and gone thru the growing pains.

The aesa will put it on par with rafale---Eurofighter---. And as you mentioned the magic word 'sanctions'---it will be free of sanctions.

This aircraft is already in hardcore evaluation by the paf at this time just like the Z helicopter---.

Pak air force problems are a NOW issue----not a futuristic concerns.

How do you know paf could not get expensive aircraft---they had the cash----just because they fckd up---does not make that an excuse---they were just lollygagging about and around for 3 + years----.

And as sanctions are a concern then the F 16 would be useless in times of need----.

Sir,
No doubt FC-20 with AESA could take on any aircraft thrown at it including the Rafale and Eurofighter.

Still the issue regarding best possible fighter aircraft to replace Mirage iii / v's could be the a tricky one. JF-17 and FC-20 are equal in capability and the amount of weapon choice, the only advantage FC-20 gives is a higher payload.

According to seniors on this forum it is known that JF-17 block iii would have many more similarities to the FC-20 which indeed brings us to an interesting issue Why to have 2 different types that are similar? They can only increase the numbers in the air at a given time but would not give any other advantage.

To gain this advantage PAF would require more F-16's or some other platform.

Agreeing to the issue 'NOW' it is far easier to increase the numbers of JF-17's by asking China to build them and fly them to Pakistan along with the ones that are being made in PAC.

The only problem is that this is going to increase the numbers of block ii's and a problem would arises when they are being upgraded to higher blocks. To reduce the effect it is possible to increase the number of block ii's without upgrading them to a higher block.

Currently PAF should be looking to wards replacing the F-16's as well so they must be looking for a 5th Gen.

This is what is being said regarding the offer of J-31's to PAF.

Sir, @Rafi has stated in the thread Formal Offer for J-31 and also presention on J20 | Page 22

" that J10B has still been offered, but considering the very generous terms for J31, they will probably skip J10 and go on to J31 part of the presentation was the way J31 kicked the shit out SU30.

One J31 took out numerous SU30 in BVR in simulated combat.

What are the generous terms?
Long term low interest loan, and cost price, full technical co-operation and involvement in the development of the system."

 

[Goenitz]

but @salman-1 posed a very relevant question....I can say F-35 is not battle ready yet bcz they added too much complexity... they want a bomber, fighter in fact an all 'type' fighter....
Russians are known for simple solution.... but their pak 50 is also facing severe problems.. there were fire incidents too....
so how come china has developed a stealth air craft so fast and so successful..? or its not state of the art and just give medium stealth capabilities...

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir,
No doubt FC-20 with AESA could take on any aircraft thrown at it including the Rafale and Eurofighter.

Still the issue regarding best possible fighter aircraft to replace Mirage iii / v's could be the a tricky one. JF-17 and FC-20 are equal in capability and the amount of weapon choice, the only advantage FC-20 gives is a higher payload.

According to seniors on this forum it is known that JF-17 block iii would have many more similarities to the FC-20 which indeed brings us to an interesting issue Why to have 2 different types that are similar? They can only increase the numbers in the air at a given time but would not give any other advantage.

To gain this advantage PAF would require more F-16's or some other platform.

Agreeing to the issue 'NOW' it is far easier to increase the numbers of JF-17's by asking China to build them and fly them to Pakistan along with the ones that are being made in PAC.

The only problem is that this is going to increase the numbers of block ii's and a problem would arises when they are being upgraded to higher blocks. To reduce the effect it is possible to increase the number of block ii's without upgrading them to a higher block.

Currently PAF should be looking to wards replacing the F-16's as well so they must be looking for a 5th Gen.

This is what is being said regarding the offer of J-31's to PAF.

Sir, @Rafi has stated in the thread Formal Offer for J-31 and also presention on J20 | Page 22

" that J10B has still been offered, but considering the very generous terms for J31, they will probably skip J10 and go on to J31 part of the presentation was the way J31 kicked the shit out SU30.

One J31 took out numerous SU30 in BVR in simulated combat.

What are the generous terms?
Long term low interest loan, and cost price, full technical co-operation and involvement in the development of the system."

Hi,

That is how it is---smaller larger and much larger-----so what is the difference between F16 and F15 and F 18---size and weight load----.

FC 20 is the Pakistani version of J 10 B and no the abilities of the JF and the FC 20 are not the same----.

 

[Last Samuri]

FC20 with AESA would give india nitemares.

FC20 in its current guise would have india rushing around looking for NOT 36 rafales but 72 OR even more.

Those simply writing FC20 off do not have a clue.

The real truth is despite Pakistan members repeatedly telling us of a deep ever lasting loving relationship with china the mighty chinease will not give up their cutting edge weapons unless Pakistan pays hard cash.

PAF needs 100+ FC20 but has no means to fund a $4.5 billion dollars programme like this ...

SO for Now

The chinease built for you a cheaper more cost effective programme in JFT costing under $2 billion for 100 fighters

for those fan boys jumping onto FC31 bandwagon this nothing more than a interested visit to the FC31 development workshops by PAF chiefs to see what a stealth programme looks like.

PAF has nothing to input to this project that china needs

PAF has no cash to put into project

PAF is merely observing like any nation can observe the F35 programme in USA or the PAK FA project in Russia.

" interested spectators"

 

[MastanKhan]

Sir,
No doubt FC-20 with AESA could take on any aircraft thrown at it including the Rafale and Eurofighter.

."

Hi,

The only reason that the PAF will not go for the J10 b / FC 20 is that they plan to get more F16's----and there are no restrictions on the operation of F 16 under any circumstances.

If there were any holdbacks on the aircraft---J10 B have been inducted right away---.

 

[Dil Pakistan]

FC20 with AESA would give india nitemares.

FC20 in its current guise would have india rushing around looking for NOT 36 rafales but 72 OR even more.

Those simply writing FC20 off do not have a clue.

The real truth is despite Pakistan members repeatedly telling us of a deep ever lasting loving relationship with china the mighty chinease will not give up their cutting edge weapons unless Pakistan pays hard cash.

PAF needs 100+ FC20 but has no means to fund a $4.5 billion dollars programme like this ...

SO for Now

The chinease built for you a cheaper more cost effective programme in JFT costing under $2 billion for 100 fighters

for those fan boys jumping onto FC31 bandwagon this nothing more than a interested visit to the FC31 development workshops by PAF chiefs to see what a stealth programme looks like.

PAF has nothing to input to this project that china needs

PAF has no cash to put into project

PAF is merely observing like any nation can observe the F35 programme in USA or the PAK FA project in Russia.

" interested spectators"

Please allow me to say that this is a totally BULLSHIT post.

There are several clues even within the post.

1). It carries a tone of so much certainty, it feels as if Chinese President is writing this post. You make it sound as if you are the one to write China's strategy.

2). "Interested Spectator" " interesting term but nothing to do with reality. In Chinese strategy, Pakistan is no more an interested spectator; anywhere. China has a lot of problems to deal with in SCS and they need to strengthen Pakistan (whatever it may take).

3). Chinese $45B. investment in Pakistan is ACTUALLY a strategic investment and not a merely related to economics. China needs to bring Pakistan army, navy and airforce to be able to guard their borders and not get pushed around. If Pakistan gets pushed around then China will have to deal with the fallout.

 

[Thunder.Storm]

Hi,

So you answered the question that you were asking---t


Hi,

FC 20 will be aesa equipped---that makes it most superior platform for paf---it is already been flown and tested and gone thru the growing pains.

The aesa will put it on par with rafale---Eurofighter---. And as you mentioned the magic word 'sanctions'---it will be free of sanctions.

This aircraft is already in hardcore evaluation by the paf at this time just like the Z helicopter---.

Pak air force problems are a NOW issue----not a futuristic concerns.

How do you know paf could not get expensive aircraft---they had the cash----just because they fckd up---does not make that an excuse---they were just lollygagging about and around for 3 + years----.

And as sanctions are a concern then the F 16 would be useless in times of need----.