Avalanche traps about 150 Pakistani soldiers

[RazPaK]

Ok, i will try to explain the situation:-

This is the pic released by ISPR, try to relate it with the one i have taken from GE:-

Image from GE (late 2011):-

Another view of the area:-

So as you guys can see that the BHQ was well located both to cover the enemy approach (the 'La' Balti word for Way/Route - from where the avalanche was initiated) and to avoid contact in case an avalanche occurred (atleast 1 KM away from it over a PLAIN area where avalanches cannot normally travel and that too shielded by a River!).

This was totally unexpected as avalanches normally happen over a mountain i.e. the snow that has been piling over it slips and moves, but in this case the entire bl00dy GLACIER has moved as shown in pic #2 (see the area above the point where i have pointed out the location of ice in late 2011 - this ice is not exactly ice rather a mountain of ice which have been formed over hundreds over years and which moves an inch over 10 years!). Damn it! Glaciers dont move in this part of the world! There is no Arctic Ocean touching the feet of the glacier and melting it!!

And then surprisingly there was no earthquake that could have shifted it either. It's like, one fine morning a mountain gets up and sits on you without any reason!

I would assume that the weight of the glacier itself is what brought it tumbling down.

 

[OrionHunter]

The radio is tuned up and we start receiving our dose of military bashing. A whole lot of qualified individuals start describing us as a merry-making mob, with no clue about how one can party at 20,000 ft above the mean sea level.

How true! These so called self styled strategists, commentators and fat politicians should be made to spend at least a month out there on the snowy barren wind swept dizzying heights of the world's highest battleground to know what it is like. And if ever one is struck with high altitude pulmonary edema, which is quite common, it becomes a living hell - like trying to breathe underwater. Yeah! That's when your lungs get filled with fluid and you're gasping for air and know that perhaps the end is near.

Those living and working in their air conditioned ivory towers need to know what the soldiers face every moment of their lives guarding the frontiers at altitudes in excess of 20,000 feet! Frost bite, gangrene, hypoxia, and mountain sickness are always waiting in the wings to strike. It's like the mountains don't want you there.

And then when 100kmph winds blow and whistle over the mountains, sending temperatures plummeting to minus 70 degrees Celsius due to the chill factor, gnawing at your bones while you traverse a deep crevasse on a wildly swinging rope bridge...Oh well, that's just one aspect of life on the highest battlefield in the world! But the men out there soldier on....It's all about Service before Self!

And that's what separates the men from the boys!

 

[Always Neutral]

Could global warming be leading to this marching of glaciers? With IA loosing 20 men a few weeks ago and now PA loosing 130 men maybe both sides should demarcate their sides to the UN and withdraw. The UN should mandate a USD 100 million fine on any of the coutries who breaks this truce and suspension for 5 years from the UN. Till Kashmir is solved only civilian expeditions to be allowed.

 

[RazPaK]

How true! These so called self styled strategists, commentators and fat politicians should be made to spend at least a month out there on the snowy barren wind swept dizzying heights of the world's highest battleground to know what it is like. And if ever one is struck with high altitude pulmonary edema, which is quite common, it becomes a living hell - like trying to breathe underwater. Yeah! That's when your lungs get filled with fluid and you're gasping for air and know that perhaps the end is near.

Those living and working in their air conditioned ivory towers need to know what the soldiers face every moment of their lives guarding the frontiers at altitudes in excess of 20,000 feet! Frost bite, gangrene, hypoxia, and mountain sickness are always waiting in the wings to strike. It's like the mountains don't want you there.

And then when 100kmph winds blow and whistle over the mountains, sending temperatures plummeting to minus 70 degrees Celsius due to the chill factor, gnawing at your bones while you traverse a deep crevasse on a wildly swinging rope bridge...Oh well, that's just one aspect of life on the highest battlefield in the world! But the men out there soldier on....It's all about Service before Self!

And that's what separates the men from the boys!

I believe everyone should have mandatory service in the PA for a certain period of time. It would have our dynastic politicians running out of the country for good, and make men out of the ones we have now.

 

[Xeric]

I would assume that the weight of the glacier itself is what brought it tumbling down.

Well, that's how it is. But glaciers dont 'tumble down' like this, unless they are floating in waters. Glaciers does move, but their speed is inches per decade and when they do, they redraw the landscape. How do you think the route to K2 or the place/area/gap/route where the BHQ was located or for that matter the valleys which are used as approaches to these area were made? It was a glacier that started its journey from the foothills of K2 thousands of years ago and by the time it reached the base camp, it was consumed.

This is how glaciers move:

The path inbetween the mountains astride the route (in the pic) was indeed made by the moment of the glacier over the past millennia, now as i said Glacier move like snail, not jump like rabbits:-

 

[RazPaK]

Could global warming be leading to this marching of glaciers? With IA loosing 20 men a few weeks ago and now PA loosing 130 men maybe both sides should demarcate their sides to the UN and withdraw. The UN should mandate a USD 100 million fine on any of the coutries who breaks this truce and suspension for 5 years from the UN. Till Kashmir is solved only civilian expeditions to be allowed.

There are many variables to the glacier moving.

Civilian expeditions to the area without the Army being there would be a nightmare for tourists.

Well, that's how it is. But glaciers dont 'tumble down' like this, unless they are floating in waters. Glaciers does move, but their speed is inches per decade and when they do, they redraw the landscape. How do you think the route to K2 or the place/area/gap/route where the BHQ was located or for that matter the valleys which are used as approaches to these area were made? It was a glacier that started its journey from the foothills of K2 thousands of years ago and by the time it reached the base camp, it was consumed.

This is how glaciers move:

The path inbetween the mountains astride the route (in the pic) was indeed made by the moment of the glacier over the past millennia, now as i said Glacier move like snail, not jump like rabbits:-

That is scary business. I mean really it was all down to bad luck. From the looks of the base, the PA was caught completely off-guard as they exercised caution on where to locate it.

 

[Always Neutral]

There are many variables to the glacier moving.

Civilian expeditions to the area without the Army being there would be a nightmare for tourists.



That is scary business. I mean really it was all down to bad luck. From the looks of the base, the PA was caught completely off-guard as they exercised caution on where to locate it.

Go to any of the alpine countries and you will see your statement is far from the truth.

 

[OrionHunter]

Could global warming be leading to this marching of glaciers? With IA loosing 20 men a few weeks ago and now PA loosing 130 men maybe both sides should demarcate their sides to the UN and withdraw. The UN should mandate a USD 100 million fine on any of the coutries who breaks this truce and suspension for 5 years from the UN. Till Kashmir is solved only civilian expeditions to be allowed.

Easier said than done, buddy!

India has refused any UN intervention and Pakistan has refused to authenticate the mutually agreed Ground Position Line.

So that's that! Will the twain ever meet? That's the million dollar question. In the meanwhile soldiers will continue to lose their lives due to the intransigence displayed by vested interests of both nations. The arms/equipment lobbies are laughing all the way to the bank too! Now if this doesn't suck, what does?

 

[RazPaK]

Go to any of the alpine countries and you will see your statement is far from the truth.

Yea dude, but that's the Alpines. This is the Himalayas. I mean it has to be at least 10x more dangerous.

 

[Xeric]

A letter from Siachen


An old cough syrup bottle has been modified with kerosene oil to serve the purpose of the lamp which practically lights up nothing. The empty ghee cans are our makeshift geysers.

Oh i remember this one, you would punch a hole in the cap of the syrup bottle, take a fired cartridge of rifle G-3, cut it's base off, push a small piece of rope/cotton/old cloth into it so that it is through and through, and then you would push that cartridge inside that hole you have made in the cap, and then you place/tighten the cap back on the bottle filled with kerosine, and voila! You have an intant Diya!

And people said our troops have low IQ!!

 

[Always Neutral]

Yea dude, but that's the Alpines. This is the Himalayas. I mean it has to be at least 10x more dangerous.

Ha ha. You are so naive. For you the Army is a solution for everything whereas in Siachin they are the problem. Develop the areas and train civilians and hearld in peace.

 

[Xeric]

Could global warming be leading to this marching of glaciers? With IA loosing 20 men a few weeks ago and now PA loosing 130 men maybe both sides should demarcate their sides to the UN and withdraw. The UN should mandate a USD 100 million fine on any of the coutries who breaks this truce and suspension for 5 years from the UN. Till Kashmir is solved only civilian expeditions to be allowed.

You are absolutely correct.

Surely global warming had its role to play. Avalanches are normal phenomenon as summers approach in these areas, but a glacier that have been sitting over its arse for hundreds of years tumbling like this is something new.

i wish both the countries realise this now, something has to be done ASAP!

 

[RazPaK]

Ha ha. You are so naive. For you the Army is a solution for everything whereas in Siachin they are the problem. Develop the areas and train civilians and hearld in peace.

Ok, so If some Mountain climbers get stuck on a mountain such a K-2, Ali the Balti will go and rescue them on foot, rather than have a PA helicopter go?

Really?

 

[Sugarcane]

ISLAMABAD: The American team of experts could not leave for Gayari sector to take part in the rescue operation at Siachen Glacier on Monday due to heavy and continuous snowfall, Geo News reported.

The US has sent a team of experts Sunday to help Pakistan search for 135 people buried a day earlier by a massive avalanche that engulfed a military complex in Gayari sector.

Due to extreme weather conditions, the team could not leave for Gayari where the temperature has dropped to –15 degrees during daytime.

At least 240 Pakistani troops and civilians worked at the site of the disaster at the entrance to the Siachen Glacier with the aid of sniffer dogs and heavy machinery, said the army. But they struggled to dig through some 25 meters (80 feet) of snow spreaded over an area of about one kilometer.

Pakistani army spokesman Gen Athar Abbas said Sunday evening that it was unclear whether any of the people who were buried are still alive. At least 124 soldiers from the 6th Northern Light Infantry Battalion and 11 civilian contractors are missing.

Pakistani army chief Gen. Ashfaq Parvez Kayani visited the site Sunday to supervise rescue operations.

Earlier, the US administration had announced they were sent a team of eight experts to Islamabad to provide technical assistance, said the Pakistani army. Pakistan will consult with the team to determine what help is needed to expedite the rescue operation.

The thousands of soldiers from both nations stationed there brave viciously cold temperatures, altitude sickness, high winds and isolation for months at a time. Troops have been posted at elevations of up to 6,700 meters (22,000 feet) and have skirmished intermittently since 1984, though the area has been quiet since a cease-fire in 2003. The glacier is known as the world's highest battlefield.

Gen Abbas said the headquarters that was buried was located in an area previously believed to be safe. At an altitude of around 4,500 meters (15,000 feet), it is the main gateway through which troops and supplies pass on their way to more remote outposts.

More soldiers have died from the weather than combat on the glacier, which was uninhabited before troops moved there.

Extreme weather hampers rescue work at Siachen - geo.tv

 

[Always Neutral]

Ok, so If some Mountain climbers get stuck on a mountain such a K-2, Ali the Balti will go and rescue them on foot, rather than have a PA helicopter go?

Really?

Helicopters can be private too and do not need to be based on the glacier itself. I won't waste my time convincing you when all over the world most ski slopes and glaciers are efficiently managed by civilians.