Australian French angle to India’s Quest for Nuclear Attack Submarines ?

[Ankit Kumar 002]

SSN and SSK programs will be separate. French and Americans aren't going to provide us nuke reactors , it's either all upon us or Russians.

So all the talks about a particular candidate having upper hand in the SSK project because of something it can offer in SSN program is useless.

The SSK program will be won by not the best but by the cheapest(of course which fulfills the basic requirements , that does include VLS system to launch BrahMos and Nirbhay).

And yes India may have a little contribution here , just like China has in every US defence project ( rare earth elements )

 

[sathya]

India already bought scorpene , May extend some more numbers..

Barracuda and scorpene won't they share facilities some components, which can make indian tender bit cheaper

 

[BON PLAN]

Our requirements for? P75I : 6 numbers, Tot, all built in indian shipyard, Bigger than P75 (Scorpene).Which is around 3000-4000T. we have allocated 50,000 crore rupees. Around 8-9 billion USD. India bought Russian Akula for 2 billion USD in the name of lease. Like 1 billion for 10 years. Another 1 billion for 10 more years. Buy then this SSN would be replaced. . . Our aim for SSN is 3 billion per Sub. With good ToT and technical design support. So another lot will be lesser with more indigenous equipments.

How in the world we could pay 20 billions for 6 SSK. Even if it's with complete ToT. We would get better deal with Russians or Germany. Rumors are that Non magnetic hull been proposed by Germany with complete ToT know how on their 214 with some sensitive equipments. Which will be replaced with India's own favorite. So basically German have good chances of winning this deal. Russians already upgrading our kilos on other hand 2-3 more new kilos and 1 akula under advanced stage of procurement.

India soon will sign follow on orders with France 4. More. We are upgrading German 209 boats so P75I will complete magical number of 10 over all. 10 Scorpene 10 German 10 kilos 10 SSN SSBN by 2027/30.


Now tell me will we buy ridiculously priced French Auzzie subs? Both French and Auzzie trying to pull India in to reduce the over cost

Kalvari is a 2060 tons. With AIP a little bit more, but not more than 2300 tons.

20 billions for 6 SSK? Source please? Be carrefull : it's like when we write about a Rafale deal : the unit price is :
- made in france or indigenously?
- amount and deep of ToT?
- duration of support?
- with base(s) accomodation?
- with weapon?
- with training?

 

[BON PLAN]

Bad news.....

According to an Australian newspaper :

"Thousands of Scorpene combat capabilities data, have been unveiled. The French authorities have launched an investigation"...

 

[PARIKRAMA]

Bad news.....

According to an Australian newspaper :

"Thousands of Scorpene combat capabilities data, have been unveiled. The French authorities have launched an investigation"...

https://defence.pk/threads/sensitive-data-of-indian-navy’s-scorpene-class-submarines-leaked.445677/

 

[BON PLAN]

https://defence.pk/threads/sensitive-data-of-indian-navy’s-scorpene-class-submarines-leaked.445677/

Submarine: DCNS passes a key stage in Australia
http://www.latribune.fr/entreprises...669.html#xtor=EPR-2-[l-actu-du-jour]-20160930

The tricolor shipyard signed its first contract in Australia. This is the design contract for future submarines of the Australian Navy.
Five months after being selected by Australia to produce 12 submarines, DCNS confirmed Thursday it had signed a "contract first operational". It covers the design of future Australian submarines in the program "Sea 1000". An announcement by the Minister of Defence, Marise Payne, and the Industry Minister of Defence, Christopher Pyne, who announced they had selected Lockheed Martin as combat system supplier.

"By forming a partnership with a company based in Australia and having close ties with the US, we make sure to get the best of Australian and American technology, while ensuring that our sensitive technology is protected," said in a statement the Australian Defence Ministers Marise Payne and Industry of Defense, Christopher Pyne,

A significant step forward The contract, which binds DCNS and the Australian government really runs the program, the amount totals to 34 billion euros. "This is a significant step forward, said the CEO of DCNS, Hervé Guillou, who is quoted in the press. This contract will enable DCNS to start the initial phase of future Australian submarine." This signature also demonstrates that the case of the leaked documents about the Scorpene submarines built by DCNS had no significant impact on the conduct of the Australian submarine program. The agreement "represents a first key step in the implementation of choice by Australia of a long-term partnership with France in the strategic area of submarine", welcomed the Minister of Defence, Jean -Yves Le Drian, in a statement Thursday night.

The contract signed with DCNS in particular address the design of future submarines. It aims to define the configuration and coordination with the combat system supplier and Australian partners in the program. In this context, DCNS will work with Lockheed Martin, which was selected by Raytheon Canberra preferably, to be the combat system supplier for future submarines, including sonar and torpedoes.

Canberra was chosen DCNS last April to begin negotiations for the purchase of submarines at the expense of Thyssenkrupp German and Japanese duo of Mitsubishi Heavy Industries and Kawasaki Heavy Industries. The commissioning of the new submarine is expected in 2027. In addition to manufacturing submarines, the contract also includes an overall budget of 50 years including in particular the infrastructure, maintenance and crew training.

 

[Agent_47]

Kalvari is a 2060 tons. With AIP a little bit more, but not more than 2300 tons.

20 billions for 6 SSK? Source please? Be carrefull : it's like when we write about a Rafale deal : the unit price is :
- made in france or indigenously?
- amount and deep of ToT?
- duration of support?
- with base(s) accomodation?
- with weapon?
- with training?

We brought 6 scorpions for $650 million each.

 

[BON PLAN]

We brought 6 scorpions for $650 million each.

6 x 650 = 4 billions. not 20....

 

[R!CK]

We brought 6 scorpions for $650 million each.

6 x 650 = 4 billions. not 20....

The Australian SEA 1000 projects has a higher price tag due to the submarines being bigger and more capable aswell as the total life cycle cost being computed as part of the deal. Other deals usually have smaller figures due to it being only for the procurement of the unit.

The Indian P75 deal was strictly for the per-unit price tag aswell as training and TOT. Integration of a mutually integrated weapons list was also part of the deal. If P75 included total life cycle costs with the deal, it wouldn't have been a US $3 billion deal. In reality, we end up spending twice that amount on its operational cost requirements over the life of the unit.

Truth is, India never considered total life cycle cost for anything they procured until recently. The L1 system where items were selected based on its cost actually helped Russian systems beat all its competition due to lower procurement costs until recently.

If airlines followed that method, they'd be buying Sukhoi superjets instead of A320 or B737. They don't, only because operational costs matter, sometimes more than procurement costs. Military is only catching upto operational cost management now.

Good Day!

 

[Agent_47]

6 x 650 = 4 billions. not 20....

I think his numbers are in rupees.

 

[BON PLAN]

MAZAGON DOCKS LTD (with DCNS) make a proposal of 3 new Scorpene to India.

http://www.latribune.fr/entreprises...712.html#xtor=EPR-2-[l-actu-du-jour]-20161124


extract : "The Indian partner of DCNS, Mazagon Docks Limited, sent an unsolicited proposal to New Delhi to sell three additional Scorpene submarines"

sorry it's in French....

 

[BON PLAN]

MAZAGON DOCKS LTD (with DCNS) make a proposal of 3 new Scorpene to India.

http://www.latribune.fr/entreprises...712.html#xtor=EPR-2-[l-actu-du-jour]-20161124


extract : "The Indian partner of DCNS, Mazagon Docks Limited, sent an unsolicited proposal to New Delhi to sell three additional Scorpene submarines"

sorry it's in French....

Heard in a french radio this morning : The mega deal of about 34 billiard is to be firmed tomorrow between france (DCNS) and Australia....

 

[BON PLAN]

END OF THE SAGA.

 

[CriticalThought]

That's a verb tense I don't recall encountering!?
-Are been persuaded in that article, in fact!

But being French speaking, I have a decent grasp of the ways to play with father Time.

So are been because, of the pair, one has been and the other should/could have gone through,
either already or potentially so in a limbo where both are persuaded but one is yet to act on it?

How very Indian time mechanics!

As for the strategic component, it is much more central than almost all value it to be.
Without an understanding of how mil industry affects and is affected by geo-politics,
you very normally miss ties knotted over decades for reasons inherent to the Nation's nature.

That 3rd red box in the FFCoyard infographic shows a solid metallic parts maker.

And good day all, Tay.

Aussie co-worker of mine substitutes been for being all the time. Even in written communication. I guess it's a thing.

 

[BON PLAN]

Aussie co-worker of mine substitutes been for being all the time. Even in written communication. I guess it's a thing.

??? what do you mean ?