Australian firm offers $16bn loan for high-speed rail projects

[Bengal71]

Idiot, how there will be extraordinary economic activities without the process of industrialization? Do you think there will be 20,000 passengers every day of the year at 10, 000 Taka for a single trip just like your wish?

No wonder, BD is infested with your kind of talented bureaucrats and the country has so far failed to industrialize. Do not put carts before the horses. This is what BD is doing now.

Build industries that will produce wealth and build any damn thing you want with the wealth produced in the industries. You guys want BD to eat cake when even Panta Bhat is scarce!!

For once I agree with you. HSR in a small country like BD is a waste of money, a white elephant. Upgrading the highways to decent level and improving and extending exisitng railway will do far more good.

 

[Valar.]

Pakistan land area: 882K sq km
Sindh land area: 140K sq km
Bangladesh land area: 148K sq km

Does Pakistan need high speed railway? Sure. Why? two reasons., 1) it is average sized country 2) it is a long country. Distance between Karachi(extreme south) to Hunza(extreme north) is 2000 Kms.

Does Sindh(a province in south) need HSR. No.

As for Bangladesh, you guys decide.

 

[Bilal9]

It takes an hour to go from Gulshan to Dhanmondi by car (a distance of about 6-7 miles ) on a good day, can be as much as 2-3 hours on a bad day. I don't know how much the traffic is going to improve in next 5 years, but as of now Dhaka traffic just might eat up all the advantages of HSR.

I personally think Bangladesh is an ideal case for HSR as it is densely populated country, but i am not sure if Govt can take on the project.

However, I am ok with private build, operate, and transfer kind of deal.

Dhaka traffic will change in huge manner when you have the Metro and BRT take the loads of mass transit off of the slow ramshackle buses.

We will also be in a far better spot to get rid of EZ bikes and rickshaws.

But Lazy Bangalis will need to learn to walk some more....

For once I agree with you. HSR in a small country like BD is a waste of money, a white elephant. Upgrading the highways to decent level and improving and extending exisitng railway will do far more good.

Highways and Railways serve different purposes and clientele.

Same with regular trains (including cargo container trains) and HSR. Different uses and methods.

These are not comparable. I can explain.

 

[Bengal71]

Dhaka traffic will change in huge manner when you have the Metro and BRT take the loads of mass transit off of the slow ramshackle buses.

We will also be in a far better spot to get rid of EZ bikes and rickshaws.

But Lazy Bangalis will need to learn to walk some more....


Highways and Railways serve different purposes and clientele.

Same with regular trains (including cargo container trains) and HSR. Different uses and methods.

These are not comparable. I can explain.

There is no need to explain, I understand what HSR does.

The point was around prioritizing development projects for a cash strapped developing country like ours. For every dollar spent the maximum output should be sought. For a country as small as BD, we need good infrastructure for the movement of industrial raw materials and finished goods for import and export and the same needs to be done for the minimum cost possible. High speed train is not required at this point in time for that purpose. High speed travel for people is also not required at this stage when our GDP per capita is only hovering near 2k. 16 billion is a hell of a lot of money that should be re-allocated to far more important projects that will give far better retrun in the short term, such as building a deep sea port, building multiple fully intergrated riverine ports that can ferry goods from industrial zones to the deep sea port at a cheaper rate, spending money on new industrial zones etc. HSR at this stage is just vanity.

 

[UKBengali]

It takes an hour to go from Gulshan to Dhanmondi by car (a distance of about 6-7 miles ) on a good day, can be as much as 2-3 hours on a bad day. I don't know how much the traffic is going to improve in next 5 years, but as of now Dhaka traffic just might eat up all the advantages of HSR.

I personally think Bangladesh is an ideal case for HSR as it is densely populated country, but i am not sure if Govt can take on the project at this time because of other pressing needs.
However, I am ok with private build, operate, and transfer kind of deal.

Metro rail will be pretty much fully ready by 2030 and so you can get to the HSR train station by the metro.


Why not take on the project at this time as no money needs to be paid back before it is built and that will probably be around 2030. It should not affect other projects much if at all.

This deal also frees BD to choose its own contractors and so there is opportunity to get local companies involved to build up their skills.

Looks a lot better than the Chinese offer which is more expensive and less local involvement.

 

[Indos]

16 billion USD is too much. Better wait Indonesia to make its medium speed train inshaAllah. It will be ready in 2024 inshaAllah. It is 200 km speed. I think Indonesian can make it for just 2 billion USD for that intended route.

Under a wind tunnel.

 

[Bilal9]

Pakistan land area: 882K sq km
Sindh land area: 140K sq km
Bangladesh land area: 148K sq km

Does Pakistan need high speed railway? Sure. Why? two reasons., 1) it is average sized country 2) it is a long country. Distance between Karachi(extreme south) to Hunza(extreme north) is 2000 Kms.

Does Sindh(a province in south) need HSR. No.

View attachment 728135

As for Bangladesh, you guys decide.

HSR is not really a question of simple distance between cities. It is also dependent on ridership, population density of cities being connected, alternative to air travel (lower cost) and other factors. Sometimes going to the airport, sitting in the lounge and waiting for a connecting flight, flight delays can take up more time than riding in an HSR between cities.

In Korea KTX offers over 20 departures between Seoul and Busan DAILY. Let's ruminate over that for a few minutes.

Some here will not agree with me - but planning for HSR is needed, although current infra in Bangladesh and our GDP per capita is not ready.

Political leaders sometimes see this as vote getter vanity "show" projects, like current HSR situation in India, but it is also somewhat practical for offering more well-heeled travelers, an alternative to air travel.

The parallel exists in Bangladesh as well. There is Dhaka to Chittagong HSR planning and feasibility studies currently ongoing and IMHO this is money very well spent at where we are economically.

However - looking at Korea (a country that was similar in population density to Bangladesh in the 80's in most cases), their GDP per capita was similar to ours in 1982, and that was the year they started planning their KTX HSR. In another ten years, their GDP per capita went to $8000, and that is when they started construction of the KTX from Seoul to Busan in the South. The trainsets were closely modeled on the TGV in France.

South Korea is similar in size to Bangladesh and Sindh (a bit larger at 223K Square KM). Seoul to Busan (main HSR corridor - see map below) is 329 KM and take a bit over 2 hours by KTX.

Dhaka to Chittagong revised HSR route is 230 KM (see map below). It should be doable in 2 HRS easily. This is a viable alternative to air travel.

This is the 1st KTX model derived from the TGV trainset by ALSTOM in the late 1990's

This is the improved KTX-II running these days.

 

[Indos]

There is no need to explain, I understand what HSR does.

The point was around prioritizing development projects for a cash strapped developing country like ours. For every dollar spent the maximum output should be sought. For a country as small as BD, we need good infrastructure for the movement of industrial raw materials and finished goods for import and export and the same needs to be done for the minimum cost possible. High speed train is not required at this point in time for that purpose. High speed travel for people is also not required at this stage when our GDP per capita is only hovering near 2k. 16 billion is a hell of a lot of money that should be re-allocated to far more important projects that will give far better retrun in the short term, such as building a deep sea port, building multiple fully intergrated riverine ports that can ferry goods from industrial zones to the deep sea port at a cheaper rate, spending money on new industrial zones etc. HSR at this stage is just vanity.

I am agree on you, HSR in China is also not profitable despite its GDP percapita has already reached 10.000 USD. Better make railway for container from new industrialization areas into port and for people movement better make commuter line using electrified train system with standard speed. HSR will absorb much less people than commuter line train

Jakarta commuter line

HSR China

This is just a comparison:

Indonesia announces start date for $1.9bn Vietnam–Laos rail link
22 October 2019 | By GCR Staff | 0 Comments

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The Indonesia Railway Development Consortium has announced plans to begin work in 2021 on a 400km rail line between Vietnam and Laos for a price of $1.9bn

The consortium is made up of INKA, Indonesia’s state-owned train maker, and Indonesian Railways Company, its main operating company. It also includes electronics company Len Industri and contractor Waskita Karya.

The consortium has signed a cooperation agreement with Vietnam’s HT Construction company and Laos’ PetroTrade.

The deal was first proposed during a 2017 bilateral meeting between Indonesian President Joko Widodo and Lao Prime Minister Thongloun Sisoulith in 2017. The project is now scheduled to begin on site by the end of 2021 and to be complete in 2024.

One of the main investors will be INKA, which plans to raise $640m for the scheme. Budi Noviantoro, the chief executive of INKA, said his company was waiting for PetroTrade to complete its survey of the route before announcing more definite plans.

The partners aim to run trains at up to 120km/h between Thakhek in south-central Laos and Vung Ang Port in Vietnam’s central province of Ha Tinh.

In March, Vietnam and Laos announced an agreement to build a 555km rail link between Vientiane, the capital of Laos, and Vung Ang. The two countries are carrying out a feasibility study for the project with support from the Korea International Cooperation Agency.

Meanwhile, China is building a $7bn north–south rail line through Laos. This a 414km link, which is more than half finished, runs between the Yunnan provincial capital of Kunming and Vientiane. It is due to enter service in December 2021.

Indonesia announces start date for $1.9bn Vietnam-Laos rail link - Global Construction Review

The Indonesia Railway Development Consortium has announced plans to begin work in 2021 on a 400km rail line between Vietnam and Laos for a price of $1.9bn The consortium is…

www.globalconstructionreview.com

 

[SpaceMan18]

I am agree on you, HSR in China is also not profitable despite its GDP percapita has already reached 10.000 USD. Better make railway for container from new industrialization areas into port and for people movement better make commuter line using electrified train system with standard speed. HSR will absorb much less people than commuter line train

Jakarta commuter line

HSR China

This is just a comparison:

Indonesia announces start date for $1.9bn Vietnam–Laos rail link
22 October 2019 | By GCR Staff | 0 Comments

• twitter
• facebook
• linkedin

The Indonesia Railway Development Consortium has announced plans to begin work in 2021 on a 400km rail line between Vietnam and Laos for a price of $1.9bn

The consortium is made up of INKA, Indonesia’s state-owned train maker, and Indonesian Railways Company, its main operating company. It also includes electronics company Len Industri and contractor Waskita Karya.

The consortium has signed a cooperation agreement with Vietnam’s HT Construction company and Laos’ PetroTrade.

The deal was first proposed during a 2017 bilateral meeting between Indonesian President Joko Widodo and Lao Prime Minister Thongloun Sisoulith in 2017. The project is now scheduled to begin on site by the end of 2021 and to be complete in 2024.

One of the main investors will be INKA, which plans to raise $640m for the scheme. Budi Noviantoro, the chief executive of INKA, said his company was waiting for PetroTrade to complete its survey of the route before announcing more definite plans.

The partners aim to run trains at up to 120km/h between Thakhek in south-central Laos and Vung Ang Port in Vietnam’s central province of Ha Tinh.

In March, Vietnam and Laos announced an agreement to build a 555km rail link between Vientiane, the capital of Laos, and Vung Ang. The two countries are carrying out a feasibility study for the project with support from the Korea International Cooperation Agency.

Meanwhile, China is building a $7bn north–south rail line through Laos. This a 414km link, which is more than half finished, runs between the Yunnan provincial capital of Kunming and Vientiane. It is due to enter service in December 2021.

Indonesia announces start date for $1.9bn Vietnam-Laos rail link - Global Construction Review

The Indonesia Railway Development Consortium has announced plans to begin work in 2021 on a 400km rail line between Vietnam and Laos for a price of $1.9bn The consortium is…

www.globalconstructionreview.com

I agree , I'm not sure even in Japan or Taiwan HSR is also profitable either so for Bangladesh lets just upgrade it for cargo trains instead and grow our economy instead.

Bangladesh's only hope is industrializing anyways

 

[UKBengali]

I agree , I'm not sure even in Japan or Taiwan HSR is also profitable either so for Bangladesh lets just upgrade it for cargo trains instead and grow our economy instead.

Bangladesh's only hope is industrializing anyways

We are not taking into account the extra economic activities that will be generated and cost savings involved by allowing freight trains to use the same tracks at night to ferry goods between Dhaka and Chittagong.

As an example of extra economic activities, you would be able to live in either Dhaka and Chittagong and travel to the other on a daily basis to work or study. This will boost the economy by an unknown figure but this along with savings in freight costs will more than likely pay for the construction costs within the 30 year repayment period,

We also need to consider the social benefits of a track like this which cannot have a price put on it.


BD is a huge(population wise) and highly densely populated country and not building this railway track will cost more money than save as I said before.Dhaka and Chittagong have a combined population of 25 million or so and so the cost per capita is not that large.

It may seem a lot of money now but if Bd economy reaches 1 trillion US dollars in 2030, then the figure will not look as big.

 

[SpaceMan18]

We are not taking into account the extra economic activities that will be generated and cost savings involved by allowing freight trains to use the same tracks at night to ferry goods between Dhaka and Chittagong.

As an example of extra economic activities, you would be able to live in either Dhaka and Chittagong and travel to the other on a daily basis to work or study. This will boost the economy by an unknown figure but this along with savings in freight costs will more than likely pay for the construction costs within the 30 year repayment period,

We also need to consider the social benefits of a track like this which cannot have a price put on it.


BD is a huge(population wise) and highly densely populated country and not building this railway track will cost more money than save as I said before.Dhaka and Chittagong have a combined population of 25 million or so and so the cost per capita is not that large.

It may seem a lot of money now but if Bd economy reaches 1 trillion US dollars in 2030, then the figure will not look as big.

I agree , but we better work our @sses off to get to 1 trillion by 2030 and also we have to decentrailze Dhaka

 

[UKBengali]

I agree , but we better work our @sses off to get to 1 trillion by 2030 and also we have to decentrailze Dhaka

This high-speed railway will help decentralise Dhaka as there is less need for people to live in Dhaka in order to work and study there.

BD needs to think medium-long term, rather than short term if it is to become even a “middle-income” country and this project is a great one from BAL that shows strategic thinking.

 

[SpaceMan18]

This high-speed railway will help decentralise Dhaka as there is less need for people to live in Dhaka in order to work and study there.

BD needs to think medium-long term, rather than short term if it is to become even a “middle-income” country and this project is a great one from BAL that shows strategic thinking.

I guess but it also means we will have to do WAYYYY better with urban planning and proper infrastructure in order for Dhaka to be decentralize.

This rail is one of the few things that will help us a lot , also maybe we might just get lucky and become close to a developed country.

 

[UKBengali]

I guess but it also means we will have to do WAYYYY better with urban planning and proper infrastructure in order for Dhaka to be decentralize.

This rail is one of the few things that will help us a lot , also maybe we might just get lucky and become close to a developed country.

BD is doing great with Infrastructure but not so much with urban planning.

It needs to bring in external urban planning experts as the local ones seem a little rubbish. Also the urban planning needs proper enforcement of building regulations in order to make it work properly.

 

[SpaceMan18]

BD is doing great with Infrastructure but not so much with urban planning.

It needs to bring in external urban planning experts as the local ones seem a little rubbish. Also the urban planning needs proper enforcement of building regulations in order to make it work properly.

Why can't we just let South Korea or Japan plan our cities ? Also our infrastructure is meh not bad but the mega projects are being built by foreigners and we really need to start making our own infrastructure and mega projects on our own.