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Austerity measures to reportedly hit Pak Army. Massive cutdown of perks.

The perks should be in line with international standards (whatever those are). Army officers need to be well paid so we attract the best candidates, long term the quality will offset any savings. As far as plot and things like that go, there should be a decent pension scheme which allows people to lead decent lives after they retire.
 
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To further
Pakistan is NOT the only nation with an overbloated top military hierarchy wasting public expenditure.
The US military too now has this disease.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...ory.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.438cfcb8525d
“The commanders who lead the nation’s military services and those who oversee troops around the world enjoy an array of perquisites befitting a billionaire, including executive jets, palatial homes, drivers, security guards and aides to carry their bags, press their uniforms and track their schedules in 10-minute increments. Their food is prepared by gourmet chefs. If they want music with their dinner parties, their staff can summon a string quartet or a choir.


The elite regional commanders who preside over large swaths of the planet don’t have to settle for Gulfstream V jets. They each have a C-40, the military equivalent of a Boeing 737, some of which are configured with beds.”

They are however not free from criticizing and people lobbying against them.

Compare this to various european military setups and lifestyles which the current PM wishes to emulate.

From the same article
“Compared with today’s plutocrats, their pay is modest. In 2013, the base salary for a four-star general with at least 38 years of service will be almost $235,000, although federal personnel regulations limit their take-home pay to $179,700. Unlike top civilians in government, top generals also receive free housing and subsidies for food and uniforms. And when they retire, those who have served at least 40 years get an annual pension that is slightly more than active-duty base pay — this year it is $236,650.

Several generals noted that perks, such as planes, cars and staff aides, are constrained by hundreds of pages of rules designed to ensure that they are used only for government business.

The bold part is the first step needed for Pakistan’s military.
 
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1. If shoving out of homes that require excessive maintenance and upkeep is applicable to the Prime minister, I believe it can be done to all public employees including military officers; security considerations can be applied as they do to the PM and other public employees.

2. Military has no business running resorts. They can be allocated to ptdc and can be run in a similar fashion with similar access levels/privileges and scrutiny as given currently.

3. Monetary bonuses are common in the civillian sector as well. Whether for duration of service or achievements

Only answering where I have a divergence below.

4. A 1000cc car will have the same result as a local procured 1300cc one.
The family use car is the one objected to, or do you wish for me to outline exactly how many and what cars belong to each 2& 3
star?

I wonder if having 5 3200cc land cruisers that arent bulletproof or have mine resistant protection but do ferry the family around with allocated drivers and motor pool maintenance is security or luxury?
The officer may be allocated a bullet proof car that ensures his safety, but it makes no sense to waste resources to buy a car for each of his family members.

Agreed but this trend is not universal within the military. However if the PM's office had 500 cars allocated to it, then one can imagine that this trend has seeped in elsewhere as well. As I mentioned, there is nothing in the Army books that calls of allocation of conveyance to the extended family of senior officers, but certain liberties are being taken.

7. Agree on this, idiotic.

8. Prime allocation of DHA plots even in supposed “random” lotteries makes all allotments suspect and furher enforces an elite class image of the military.

My point was not about allocation. Secondly the original point about diverting funding to the dams is quite idiotic. Leaving that aside, allocation of DHA plots means serving/retired military officers get to own property. This leads to general development of the area to a point where it becomes a desirable location for others. This trend in itself is not a bad thing. If people have heartburn over the allocation of plots, fix the process. But the reason for DHAs existing is that there is a problem with housing for many that are coming out of service and have to find accommodations for their families.

9. Difference between posting moves and having non-essentials moved through transportation should be clear. This policy is enforced much along the lower and mid ranks but felters out higher up,
Not as a general rule. If a few abuse the privilege as an exception, it does not mean it is the rule for the rest. Exceptions exists all over but we should avoid generalization. The Army moves on the basis of this facility. When the Army moves, the families have to be extended this facility. This goes on in India, BD and as far as the military in the United States.

10. Electricity is subsidized for military installations either way. However if the officer has chosen to waive military accommodations for their own, then no subsidy should be provided other than a measured allowance reflecting the cost of living in the military housing.

The measured allowance would suffice. At the end of the day, it is a benefit for being in uniform. Your point about living in or outside of cantonment housing does not pass muster given all the situations faced. First of all, there is NEVER enough housing in most cases. Secondly, each time you are posted somewhere, it is not feasible or possible to uproot the entire family and take them in tow. As such, these benefits are essential and important to keep the military focused on its job and not having to worry about getting in the line at a local bank to pay the monthly charges. Some things that work in the civilian life just don't work as simply for those in uniform while serving.


Constructive criticism is only useful when the audience isn’t a knee jerk defense. The issue is not with those serving on the front lines or in proactive roles. However as is widely experienced and reported, the hardship endured during the pre-star period for military personnel does not always translate to a humble nature and living at the top. The lifestyles and usage of national funds for elitist living by the brass is well known, well documented(even in google maps) and is always the object of contention.
Appreciation of service does not equate to excessive usage and abuse of national funds especially when those same funds can be translated into austere measures. A colonial mindset requires mansions otherwise there is no problems with either two stars or three stars living within 4000sqft of living space.

A higher quality of life is synonymous with ones progression up the ranks. This is not unique to the Pakistani military or our nation. It happens in private, corporate and public spheres. Yes the Army leadership has become status-conscious and could do with some trimming, but our civvies are more extravagant. The sitting PM of Pakistan is talking about what he will do with a 500 car fleet in the PM's house? Collectively, all of the 13 Corps Commanders, all the PSOs and their Chief do not have 500 cars at their disposal. So let's put things into proper perspective. Fat can be cut, no denying but what personally irks me is the way the whipping cane is used against purported military extravagance without taking into consideration the mass wastage happening with all of the civilian sectors of the government.

The service and sacrifice for the nation is NOT exclusive to the Pakistan Army nor is continuous combat and deployments. What is common to them and other Junta nations is the standard of living accorded to the higher brass on national expenses that then leaves no difference or “exception” in career to that of bureaucrats or ministerial appointments engaging in excessive lifestyles and corruption(better left to another thread).

Here I have to diverge by stating that it is unequivocally exclusive for the armed forces! There is NO service in Pakistan that is similar in terms of the challenges faced by members of the armed forces. I am not saying others are not "at risk or at danger" but the challenges faced by those in uniform (specially the Army and the Air Force, Navy much less given its concentrated in Karachi and its environs mostly) are in a different league and this is not something specific to Pakistan (where our military is far more actively deployed than many others across the world) rather it is a general case with militaries all around the world. The lifestyle neccessitated is very different from any other job. People do get transferred around in other government departments but on a much smaller scale than in the armed forces. The stress of these moves on the personnel/families and support structure is unlike any other (exceptions always exist).
 
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Honestly, they'll likely target (and clamp down) on imports. Not only are imports are a fiscal strain, but they cause economic damage (at least in Pakistan's current conditions) by removing hard currency and (if all imports are to be taken collectively) force depreciation of PKR (by boosting demand for foreign currency).

In other words, it isn't perks or benefits that are on the radar for austerity, but big-ticket purchases from abroad.

Isn't that wishful thinking? (I'm assuming you're talking about defense products) They have to import because Pak can't or won't make those products. The whole mindset will have to change from the usual "who cares how we got it, at least we got it" to "let's put in the time, money and effort into upgrading our industrial and r&d base so we can not only produce the products we require but sell to others". I don't see anything in that direction. The army mumbos leading defense production should be the first ones sacked and (personal opinion) court martialed.
 
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50 % concession votuers is waved off .
Can someone explain this please, not understood
All two star and below shall remove AC from their offices as per army rules and stand operating procedures .
How is using an AC a perk ? It’s a functional necessity given the weather & humidity
All Army officers residences must be metered and they must pay electricity as per normal rates .
Were they not paying for electricity ?
All Army messes and guest houses will be privatized on the lines of KP govt tourism dept

Guest houses ..maybe /yes

But officers messes...why ?
 
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(Guys need reliable sources to confirm or deny this. If true, it's big.)

فوج کے افسران اب فلیٹ میں رھینگے

It is heard from reliable sources that Imran Khan on the advice of COAS will also review perks of Army Officers to strength Austerity Drive and set an example of leading from the front.
#COAS Agreed on following and announces will follow soon .
1. All 4/3/2 and 1 star houses along with Houses of Station commanders , logistic Area commanders , Static instalation commandants , Depot commanders will be auctioned or converted into hostels for Orphans of shuhadas .

2. All Army messes and guest houses will be privatized on the lines of KP govt tourism dept as million and millions are spent on its maintenance beside huge human resource is utilized / employed .

3. Policy of alloting plots to army officers as service benefits shall be stopped forthwith except benefits of shuhadas .

4. NCB or servant will not be provided as its misuse of human resources and burden of govt exchanger all Govt officers shall be treated under the same police .

5. All four star and below will be using only 1000 Cc cars as per federal govt policy .

6. No air cargo or heli service will be allowed to any army officer . All officers shall be using road services for meeting and other official duties . Heli service will only be allowed after special permission from COAS on case to case basis
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7. All two star and below shall remove AC from their offices as per army rules and stand operating procedures .

8. All Available DHA plots will be auctioned and amount will be deposited for Debt clearance and Construction of dam .
9. 50 % concession votuers is waved off .

10. All Army officers residences must be metered and they must pay electricity as per normal rates .
Impossible.
 
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As far as the messes are concerned, they house all young officers. How do they plan to run a military accommodation by giving it to civilians?
 
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(Guys need reliable sources to confirm or deny this. If true, it's big.)

فوج کے افسران اب فلیٹ میں رھینگے

It is heard from reliable sources that Imran Khan on the advice of COAS will also review perks of Army Officers to strength Austerity Drive and set an example of leading from the front.
#COAS Agreed on following and announces will follow soon .
1. All 4/3/2 and 1 star houses along with Houses of Station commanders , logistic Area commanders , Static instalation commandants , Depot commanders will be auctioned or converted into hostels for Orphans of shuhadas .

2. All Army messes and guest houses will be privatized on the lines of KP govt tourism dept as million and millions are spent on its maintenance beside huge human resource is utilized / employed .

3. Policy of alloting plots to army officers as service benefits shall be stopped forthwith except benefits of shuhadas .

4. NCB or servant will not be provided as its misuse of human resources and burden of govt exchanger all Govt officers shall be treated under the same police .

5. All four star and below will be using only 1000 Cc cars as per federal govt policy .

6. No air cargo or heli service will be allowed to any army officer . All officers shall be using road services for meeting and other official duties . Heli service will only be allowed after special permission from COAS on case to case basis
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7. All two star and below shall remove AC from their offices as per army rules and stand operating procedures .

8. All Available DHA plots will be auctioned and amount will be deposited for Debt clearance and Construction of dam .
9. 50 % concession votuers is waved off .

10. All Army officers residences must be metered and they must pay electricity as per normal rates .

False news.
Probably written by some libtard.
 
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Doesnt have the guts,no way.He'll end up like nawaz or bhutto if he tries.
 
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Only answering where I have a divergence below.



Agreed but this trend is not universal within the military. However if the PM's office had 500 cars allocated to it, then one can imagine that this trend has seeped in elsewhere as well. As I mentioned, there is nothing in the Army books that calls of allocation of conveyance to the extended family of senior officers, but certain liberties are being taken.



My point was not about allocation. Secondly the original point about diverting funding to the dams is quite idiotic. Leaving that aside, allocation of DHA plots means serving/retired military officers get to own property. This leads to general development of the area to a point where it becomes a desirable location for others. This trend in itself is not a bad thing. If people have heartburn over the allocation of plots, fix the process. But the reason for DHAs existing is that there is a problem with housing for many that are coming out of service and have to find accommodations for their families.


Not as a general rule. If a few abuse the privilege as an exception, it does not mean it is the rule for the rest. Exceptions exists all over but we should avoid generalization. The Army moves on the basis of this facility. When the Army moves, the families have to be extended this facility. This goes on in India, BD and as far as the military in the United States.



The measured allowance would suffice. At the end of the day, it is a benefit for being in uniform. Your point about living in or outside of cantonment housing does not pass muster given all the situations faced. First of all, there is NEVER enough housing in most cases. Secondly, each time you are posted somewhere, it is not feasible or possible to uproot the entire family and take them in toe. As such, these benefits are essential and important to keep the military focused on its job and not having to worry about getting in the line at a local bank to pay the monthly charges. Some things that work in the civilian life just don't work as simply for those in uniform while serving.




A higher quality of life is synonymous with ones progression up the ranks. This is not unique to the Pakistani military or our nation. It happens in private, corporate and public spheres. Yes the Army leadership has become status-conscious and could do with some trimming, but our civvies are more extravagant. The sitting PM of Pakistan is talking about what he will do with a 500 car fleet in the PM's house? Collectively, all of the 13 Corps Commanders, all the PSOs and their Chief do not have 500 cars at their disposal. So let's put things into proper perspective. Fat can be cut, no denying but what personally irks me is the way the whipping cane is used against purported military extravagance without taking into consideration the mass wastage happening with all of the civilian sectors of the government.



Here I have to diverge by stating that it is unequivocally exclusive for the armed forces! There is NO service in Pakistan that is similar in terms of the challenges faced by members of the armed forces. I am not saying others are not "at risk or at danger" but the challenges faced by those in uniform (specially the Army and the Air Force, Navy much less given its concentrated in Karachi and its environs mostly) are in a different league and this is not something specific to Pakistan (where our military is far more actively deployed than many others across the world) rather it is a general case with militaries all around the world. The lifestyle neccessitated is very different from any other job. People do get transferred around in other government departments but on a much smaller scale than in the armed forces. The stress of these moves on the personnel/families and support structure is unlike any other (exceptions always exist).

Why is it automatically a need to point the fingers at the rest of the government if the military is critiqued? Why is it an assumption that the excess in the rest of the state are not just as vociferously denounced as in the military?


Was referring to other nations around the world.
 
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Wanted to clear propaganda spread by PDC,
Their reports are fake, because a lot of these are wrong

1)NCB and Batman bohat arsay say khatam hoi hain. Army does not provide NCB anymore. People have to hire private NCB.
2) DHA Kay plots are not gifted, officers pay for them, you cannot auction stuff some one has paid for. The officers own that land.

3) All army officers residents are metered. There is no house that does not pay electricity bill

4) air cargo and heli services are not provided to officers. By land he Saman jata Hai. Air cargo unit Kay Saman Kay lian use hota Hai not personal belonging of officers.

5) allotting plot as service benefit ended a long time ago as well. Officer pay for all the plots (in installments) and no plots are gifted even when officers are awarded medals like Sitar - e-Imtiaz

6) 4 star General sirf 2 he hotay hain, COAS, Chairman Joint Chief. This post makes it sound 4 star generals are common. Ab COAS Ka Ghar to auction nahee karaingay na, where do you expect the COAS to go?
 
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Wanted to clear propaganda spread by PDC,
Their reports are fake, because a lot of these are wrong

1)NCB and Batman bohat arsay say khatam hoi hain. Army does not provide NCB anymore. People have to hire private NCB.
2) DHA Kay plots are not gifted, officers pay for them, you cannot auction stuff some one has paid for. The officers own that land.

3) All army officers residents are metered. There is no house that does not pay electricity bill

4) air cargo and heli services are not provided to officers. By land he Saman jata Hai. Air cargo unit Kay Saman Kay lian use hota Hai not personal belonging of officers.

5) allotting plot as service benefit ended a long time ago as well. Officer pay for all the plots (in installments) and no plots are gifted even when officers are awarded medals like Sitar - e-Imtiaz

6) 4 star General sirf 2 he hotay hain, COAS, Chairman Joint Chief. This post makes it sound 4 star generals are common. Ab COAS Ka Ghar to auction nahee karaingay na, where do you expect the COAS to go?
2)they are allocated. As an example The DHA towers in Phase 8 Karachi for which hundreds of people put down payment and which are worth crores.. somehow generals and officers got the best numbers even though it was supposedly “random”. If it is preferential then they should not be hypocritical about it. Cheap land allotments and “random” preferences continue.

4)can put COAS in a 500sq yard house.
Historic situation can be made differrent.

Current housing for FWO, corps commanders nearly exceeds that of COAS.. including motor pool and maintenance which is NOT exclusive for official uses.
Means trips to monal for kids also on Public expenses.
 
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Isn't that wishful thinking? (I'm assuming you're talking about defense products) They have to import because Pak can't or won't make those products. The whole mindset will have to change from the usual "who cares how we got it, at least we got it" to "let's put in the time, money and effort into upgrading our industrial and r&d base so we can not only produce the products we require but sell to others". I don't see anything in that direction. The army mumbos leading defense production should be the first ones sacked and (personal opinion) court martialed.
Not really. If there's not enough of a foreign/hard-currency in Pakistan to back an import, then that's the end of it. In the 1990s Pakistan had to walk away from two Mirage 2000/-5 negotiations; in the 2010s, it walked away from 18 optional Block-52+, 36 FC-20 and 3 Type 214 SSK; and so on.
 
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