Attack on PNS Mehran Base - PAF Faisal Base

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

Nope I actually condemn what happened. And may the innocent lives RIP.. Both India and pakistan face a common threat that needs to be exterminated. However with increasing funds (from a suspected source) it only gives little hope to finally eradicate parasites such as these.

I respect your condemnation... But the common threat of India and Pakistan unfortunately are each other...

 

[iPhone]

Sorry dude ... I had no idea they were wearing suicide vests. Missed that bit.

Common bro, this is how they operate. They come on suicide mission not to be captured alive. I don't mean to be rude but you've posted on so many pages of this thread, this bit of info was clear from the very start that they're wearing suicide vests, just as they were during GHQ attack, this is part of their gear now.

 

[VelocuR]

Terrorist (win) vs Pakistan's institution=GHQ attack, ISI offices, Army, Navy Attack, Mall attack, vice versa

 

[Hindustani]

I respect your condemnation... But the common threat of India and Pakistan unfortunately are each other...

Yeah I agree. However at times like this, it's better to put differences aside.. may better sense prevail in both countries in the future..

 

[fatman17]

@All-Green
Clean up all the terrorist support structure by using a law enforcement and judicial proceedings

here is the problem with this - all terrorists/militants captured so far are mostly 'released' due to 'lack of evidence' - what is required is something more than this - its called 'extreme prejudice'!

 

[Riz]

aey arz-e-Pak teri hurmat pe kat mary hum
hai khoon teri ragun mein ab tak rawan humara.

A brave soldier.

Salute to you with my wet eyes Sir, May Allah rest his soul in peace........................
Ae watan tu nen pukara to lahu khol utha.Tere Bety tere Janbaz Chaly aaty hen......

 

[SQ8]

This still didn't answer why they are wearing T-Shirts to work or is that it is the Pakistani tradition.

Yes, we are really poor.. our folks dont wear three piece dinner suits to work in 42 C heat..
casual is us..

Somehow i get the feeling he still feels better than the guy with the ironed , starched uniform seen on paramilitary forces to our east.



Sort of reply you deserve anyway..

 

[Spring Onion]

Yes, we are really poor.. our folks dont wear three piece dinner suits to work in 42 C heat..
casual is us..




Sort of reply you deserve anyway..

You dint get what he was implying. so the only answer he deserves is a pink colour

 

[MumbaiIndians]

Shame on Pakistan Armed Forces... Saari Dunya Main Naak Katwa Dee... Ab to Naak Bhe Nahi Bachi...

For God sake get your acts right you fools... Pull up your socks... Eject US from our country and stop drone attacks...

and if you dont listen to this... Let me assure you... We will be humiliated again... Our enemy is very wise and patient... and you have seen their capability... I have my ears locked on some channels and believe me they have absolutely no fear of Pak Army anymore... They are going to strike again... and we are edging towards a full blown civil war...

Someone in America and India is very happy and satisfied with all this...

From here, I can see that Pakistanis abroad have no interests in well-being of Pakistan or its people. They are more worried about 'pride'.

If you had so much interests and future of Pakistan in your minds, you would never push Pakistan into anti-India mode. Its a big shame that you guys are like those Indian americans who keep whining about non-action of Indian Government after 26/11 terror attack but they shut their mouth when someone asks, "when you are coming back to India and work here for home company?".

Seriously, its time for you non-resident Pakistanis to stop this sillyness of forwarding foreign agendas of creating tensions in region. The same advice which I give to Indian american fools.

 

[fatman17]

For those who are imploring about the possibility of an inside job; They first need to understand the difference between an "inside job" and that "someone from the inside assisting or providing info that may be useful to the terrorists". Just because some airmen assisted when the terrorists attacked Musharraf in a suicide attack or just because Dr Usman (a former nursing in the Army) helped planned the GHQ attack would NOT automatically mean that these acts were an inside job, for sake of crying out loud!!

'inside job' is short for what u r suggesting - no one is suggesting complicity of the High Command in this act!

 

[Hindustani]

Contradictions emerge in accounts of Pakistan raid
​

By MOHAMMAD FAROOQ and CHRIS BRUMMITT, Associated Press Mohammad Farooq And Chris Brummitt, Associated Press – 1 hr 1 min ago
KARACHI, Pakistan – Pakistani police say up to 12 militants were involved in the 18-hour attack on a naval base in Pakistan's largest city.

Tuesday's police account contradicts those by the government and the navy, which earlier said there were six assailants. The discrepancy adds to the questions surrounding Sunday's brazen raid by Islamist militants on the base in the port city of Karachi.

The Taliban said the attack was to avenge Osama bin Laden's killing.

The police account is part of an initial case report into the assault. Such reports are a formal step in any police investigation in Pakistan.

Local police chief Shahrukh Khan says the report was written after consultation with a navy officer.

The navy declined to comment.

THIS IS A BREAKING NEWS UPDATE. Check back soon for further information. AP's earlier story is below.

KARACHI, Pakistan (AP) — Pakistani commandos recaptured a major naval base from Taliban attackers after a bloody and humiliating 18-hour standoff that raised questions about militant infiltration in the security services and the safety of the volatile country's nuclear warheads.

The unusually brazen assault, which the Taliban said was to avenge the killing of Osama bin Laden, was a reminder that the Pakistanis are catching blame from both sides in the aftermath of the May 2 raid by U.S. commandos.

While Americans have accused elements in the Pakistani security services of having sheltered bin Laden in the military town of Abbottabad, the Taliban and al-Qaida fault the army for its level of cooperation with the Americans. It was the third purported revenge strike in Pakistan since bin Laden's death.

After initially estimating that 15 insurgents were involved in the attack that began late Sunday in the country's commercial capital, Karachi, officials said just six heavily armed, black-clad assailants penetrated into the heart of the Naval Station Mehran after cutting through wire in a quiet section of its eastern perimeter.

The militants destroyed two U.S.-supplied surveillance aircraft and killed at least five navy officers, two paramilitary rangers and three firefighters. Six Americans and 11 Chinese aviation engineers escaped unharmed, authorities said.

Four attackers were killed — one apparently blew himself up — but two managed to escape, said Pakistan Navy chief Nauman Bashir.

After blowing up the aircraft, causing huge fires that lit up the night sky and sent black smoke above the city of 18 million people, the insurgents inside the base managed to evade death or capture into Monday by splitting up and firing on marines and commandos sent to catch them.

Toward early afternoon, the militants were holed up in an office building as navy helicopters flew over the base, and snipers were seen on a runway control tower. A final crack of automatic weapon fire rang out, and the navy soon declared victory.

"Thanks be to God, the base is cleared and the operation is over," said navy spokesman Irfan ul Haq.

Commandos leaving the complex flashed victory signs to reporters.

The base, the home of the Pakistan Navy's air arm, is part of the much larger Faisal air base, and is surrounded by residential and commercial areas. It is about six miles (10 kilometers) from the city's international airport.

Interior Minister Rehman Malik said the attackers were aged between 20 and 25 and the plot was hatched in the Waziristan area close to Afghanistan, from where most of the attackers inside Pakistan — and many in Afghanistan — are believed to train and get shelter.

He showed a picture he took with his cell phone of a dead fighter lying bloodied on the grass. He said the attackers were dressed in black — presumably to avoid detection at night — and looked "like the Star Wars characters."

That the attackers managed to infiltrate so deep into the high-security base led to speculation they may have had inside information or assistance. The base is surrounded by barbed-wire topped walls and dotted with sentry points and cameras.

The military is Pakistan's most powerful institution, but it too has been infected by the anti-Americanism and Islamism coursing through the country over the last 10 years, especially in its lower ranks. The unilateral U.S. raid against bin Laden exacerbated this anger among many soldiers, who saw it as a violation of sovereignty as well as a sign that Pakistani authorities could not be trusted.

The Pakistani Taliban, an al-Qaida-allied group blamed for hundreds of attacks since 2007, claimed responsibility for the assault on the naval base.

"Sheik Osama bin Laden was a very valuable person and even if we kill thousands of enemies it will not be sufficient revenge," said spokesman Ahsanullah Ahsan in a phone call to reporters. "We also want to harm the military, which is secular and supportive to the Americans but unable to protect either the land or people of Pakistan or Islam."

Al-Qaida and Taliban militants seek to replace Pakistan's secular, American-backed leaders with hardline Islamist rule.

Although Pakistan is battling some insurgents in the northwest close to the Afghan border, it has also been accused of fatally hampering that fight by tolerating others it believes serves its interests in Afghanistan and India. That has fueled suspicion that members of the security services helped shelter bin Laden, who was previously assumed to be living in caves near the Afghan border.

Malik and Bashir hinted that the militants in Sunday's attack had help from abroad, presumably a reference to India, the country's traditional enemy. Such accusations are often heard after high-profile militant attacks, but no evidence is presented.

The charges — repeated by retired generals on talk shows — reflect sentiment in Pakistan over the nature of the enemy. Many prefer to believe conspiracy theories holding India, America and Israel as the country's biggest threat — not fellow Pakistani Muslims who claim responsibility for the strikes.

For those who think this way, the American raid on bin Laden and the militant raid on the base can be conflated.

"After the Osama bin Laden death and now this attack, you see the enemies are after our national assets," Malik said. "They had rocket launchers which no ordinary terrorists can have," he said. "That means they are being energized from somewhere."

In October 2009, militants besieged army headquarters in Rawalpindi close to the capital for 22 hours. At least one former member of the security forces, an army nurse, took part in that attack.

"We know that the Pakistan security establishment has been penetrated by jihadists," said Kamran Bokhari, an analyst with STRATFOR, a private security think tank in Austin, Texas. "There is ample evidence to show this. Are there such people inside the nuclear establishment? One can never rule out the possibility."

Pakistan does not reveal where it keeps its nuclear weapons. The Mehran base is 15 miles from Masroor air base, the country's biggest, and a rumored home to some nuclear weapons.

Still, Kamran and other experts said nuclear facilities are much better protected than regular military bases, even the army headquarters in Rawalpindi. And that attacking a naval facility is vastly easier than sending militants into a base and expecting them to get out with nuclear material.

"For Pakistan, the nukes are the most prized possession of the country. It is going to take much more than 15 to 20 men to get them," Kamran said.

___



Contradictions emerge in accounts of Pakistan raid - Yahoo! News

 

[desioptimist]

Yes, we are really poor.. our folks dont wear three piece dinner suits to work in 42 C heat..
casual is us..

Somehow i get the feeling he still feels better than the guy with the ironed , starched uniform seen on paramilitary forces to our east.

Sort of reply you deserve anyway..

It is not about poverty. If you are carrying heavy weapons, you are dealing with similarly armed opponents, should not you be better protected?
Nothing wrong with T shirt though. They look sexy.

 

[Muhammad-Bin-Qasim]

I guess it is uncharacteristic of me but the way i see it...we need to sacrifice some people even if not guilty of personal failure but failure due to treachery of others.
Just to set an example that if it happens on your watch...it is indeed a failure. In case that we believe the claims that there was no inside hand, then it is even more critical to punish the entire chain of command which was handling security…right to the top commander.
This accountability and shame should start from the base commander himself. He may be a good guy but does not matter anymore.

After all, there is a limit to how much we should tolerate in way of brazen attacks amidst military facilities where the terrorists have a lot of know how where and when to strike and have ample munitions stored conveniently to carry on fighting for many many hours.
Surely the boot needs to be given to certain people and a very clear message needs to be sent to the generals, officers and soldiers...nothing shall go unpunished and it shall start from top.
The soldiers look upto their officers who look upto their generals.
The respect needs to be earned and can be lost when such things happen and no heads are rolled.

The command is supposed to own its mistakes and not disown its failure by singing praises of training and advanced tactics used by the terrorists.
We are at war here after all; we are supposed to be facing a determined enemy.
Instead of analyzing our own mistakes we make the enemy seem 10 times stronger and demoralize the soldiers and the nation who give too much respect to these rabid dogs.

The admiral is not alone in this attitude and that is what worries me.
Is the admiral not following suite here because he has seen other failures which went unpunished?

Sure there were indeed investigations and punishments on a lower level but certainly there has been no senior commander who has yet been sacrificed to ensure that the attitude becomes much more unforgiving towards such negligence.
Would a few high level court martials/resignations over GHQ or Abbottabad not have at least created an environment where there is no shyness in promising punishment for those whose negligence or support resulted in a disaster?

Till heads are not rolling, we shall not see the leaders openly embracing the truth in front of the nation.
I think Military leadership has to set an example of accountability after these series of breaches in our defense. We all need a clear policy defined by our leadership based on ground realities which they should share with us. With civilian and military leadership both defending their decisions and stances we shall not have any strategy shift.
I hope the military uses these breaches to highlight not only its own shortfalls but also the many reasons why this is happening…throw the ball in the court of civilian leadership and ask them why there is no accountability of support network while military is sent to fight the terrorists. Do raise the question that if on one hand our provincial ministers meet the outlawed and banned outfits which have actually joined up with TTP…how we can achieve clarity about who is the enemy?
Why should we expect that there shall be no split within nation or military if the leadership has not qualified the enemy?
I hope the military leadership realizes that it can indeed save Pakistan but it shall have to start by setting its own house in order and using these measures to drive the political leadership into a corner by demanding a clear cut national policy which the military and ISI have to follow regarding this phenomena.
TTP is only strong because we are shy to admit that it has some supporters which walk free...
TTP is only strong because they are sitting on the drug and major smuggling routes and have absorbed all the criminal syndicates to give rise to an uber terrorist mafia which is earning a lot of black money and is also a mercenary force for hire...

TTP can be eliminated but for that we need an approach where all the organs of this mafia are targeted.

Clean up the military front via military actions.
I disagree with Imran Khan here despite always supporting him as a good guy.
He said the same right after Buner operation was launched...yet had we sent him to negotiate with the TTP he would have been butchered by them as well. In this he is not yet completely aware of the power these people hold via twisting Islam.
You need to realize what TTP stands for
To mix them with our own people and look for dialogue is the mistake that has killed thousands of Pakistanis and given rise to their credibility.
We should realize that when you talk with TTP and appoint clerics like Sufi Muhammad as middle men, they are usually able to associate more with each other than with Pakistan and us poor Pakistanis...this is evident when Fazlullah was talked to by Sufi Muhammad and despite Pakistani state bending over...the rascals of TTP instead gloated and demanded more and more....they are power hungry monsters who feed on a twisted religious mentality...they can never ever welcome any stability, development and peace which brings mental growth and maturity.
The clerics are mostly sympathetic to TTP ideology and are certainly not bothered with Pakistan as much as their own power base in the name of Islam...they have a business case with or without Pakistan since by twisting the peoples thoughts their hold over the people is strong.
Actually a destabilized Pakistan suits them since the more chaos there is, the less education and lesser the prospects of a normal life for youngsters....a most fertile ground for hate based propaganda to take root in young minds in the name of religion.
To say that no military action is required is indeed folly and i think this is where Imran Khan is wrong.
However to say that military action alone is the solution is not something i am saying.
The only approach is to use military where the militants are well entrenched and then bring in law enforcement and enforce the law instead of socializing with those elements who are political players since they have influence on the terrorists to some extent...
sorry but this is not something i can call as a strategic dialogue...we do this from the wrong perspective and count on these quasi terrorist sympathizers to negotiate some truce.
This is how we delegated our authority to TTP...
This is the lesson that the martyrdom of many Pakistanis in Swat taught us...never trust the clerics and the Mullahs to help stabilize Pakistan.
They opposed its creation and are not much bothered about it.
There is no dialogue with TTP as it is a criminal/terrorist franchise and any law shall be most unwelcome news for it.

How much more can we tolerate outlaws?

Clean up all the terrorist support structure by using a law enforcement and judicial proceedings
This should include targeting the sectarian killing schools of religious thought which have a strong base in Punjab and still have strong political ties with PML-N...this can be done by law enforcement agencies....honestly!
However when law minister of Punjab socializes with lashker e Jhangvi, i am sure it is not about lacking capability but lacking intent due to other motivations!
Prosecution of the ones in charge of hate filled lashkars is absolutely necessary to eliminate the violence and the atmosphere in which young minds are brainwashed by clerics and taught about heavenly merits of hating other sects due to their flawed Islam ...certainly a most twisted ideology but only condemned in carefully guarded words...never in action.

Create an atmosphere where hate spewing people are held accountable
We should try all those in courts who create unrest by promoting hate and violence in the name of religion, sect, creed, ethnicity etc.
Tolerating such goons is what has caused our society to degenerate to this level, we need to take such things deadly serious.

Our civilian and military leadership needs to own their mistakes and set examples.
If they fail to do so then we should come in the streets...but not under a counter ideology where we want a different system...certainly not now when all such counter ideologies are owned by dodgy characters which are being supported by different hands to gain leverage.
We first need to work towards a more aware society which accepts the flaws instead of just giving into conspiracy theories in order to jump into the arms of any particular camp.
Be patient my friends...we can have any system we want and certainly laws can be modified but our problem is not the system but selective implementation of laws!
Why should we cry Islamic system and then see TTP hijacking it?
Let us cry for justice, accountability and education.
These are the things that all the enemies of Pakistan are shy of and all the well wishers of Pakistan want.
Let us first get some values back in our country and improve our social awareness.

Do understand that today we need to implement a system...there are many things which are right in the current system but due to lack of implementation they are rendered useless.
Let us work with the system we have and first use our strength to change the corrupt and inefficient faces and replace them with the clean ones who have seen that any major vice is punished by a socially aware Pakistani nation.

If you say that in Islamic system the rulers are supposed to be good men then please analyze what you are saying...Pakistani constitution is not un-Islamic and even in our constitution one cannot hold office if one is of bad repute even...then is it fault of our system that corruption is rampant?
Sure we can improve the system and introduce new laws in tune with developing realities!
Sure, it may well be that a true Islamic system is indeed something that can bring great dividends for Pakistan.
But is the current scenario due to a failure of system or a failure of system implementation?

Can the any system including an Islamic system not fail if implemented wrongly?
Yes it can, remember Taliban and how they derailed and focused their energies on some really pathetic things like mandatory beards etc.?
Remember how their Islam did not tolerate others (Hazara Shias) Islam?
Do we really want to give these people legitimacy?
Why not clean all the crazies and denounce them so that after 10-20 years the people learn to segregate between the khariji terrorist ideology of a twisted Islam and truly Islamic values which are indeed worthy of working towards and implementing.
Let us also acknowledge the complete set of problems.

The current dilemma we face internally is because people have hijacked Pakistan and its identity in the name of their brand of Islam which is more like the Islam of Kharijis than of any sane person...however this is the sad truth.
Whether my Pakistani brothers want democracy or a modern Islamic system (unlike the stupid and barbaric version of any Taliban)...they need to see this Khariji ideology for what it is...the number one enemy of Pakistan and Pakistanis.
If you implement democracy then the holier than thou clerics and militants will say it is Un-Islamic; on the other hand if you implement the best Islamic system they will still brand it as a conspiracy against the true Islam and a sham.

We gave them Sharia laws in Swat and after few days when the Sharia courts started announcing punishments for the Taliban who had captured property of others or were harassing others, the Taliban suddenly wanted more and were not satisfied with the Sharia...
Of course why would they be satisfied with any Law which holds them accountable like ordinary men?

My Pakistani brothers and sisters...please stop being influenced by different sects and camps which only end up dividing us and harming Pakistan.
We have to stop harping the tune of others and need to realize that our collective goal is to get a Pakistan where people are held accountable and there is justice and fair play...which lead to true strength.
This needs not just education but a collective conscience which we need to build ourselves.
A social awareness by virtue of which our people are conscious enough to not let anyone harm Pakistan whether in name of Islam, liberalism, ethnicity or any other basis.

We need to focus on the lofty values which are indeed the foundation of any good system...justice, accountability, law and order!
When you have a society where there are at least some values that are good...you can build it further and tailor it more towards your finer needs.

However today, let us come together and draw a line where anyone who is harming Pakistan and wants to promote violence and intolerance is branded as our enemy instead of being honored with a cult following.
Let us unite on some primary things and help bring stability back to the motherland.
When the dust settles and we achieve normalcy, let us work peacefully towards whatever direction we want Pakistan to take.
Let us unify in promoting some values which we all want and let us back it up with our voices and presence in the streets if the leadership fails us.
Let us be much more vocal and active in denouncing all the flaws and errors made so that the rulers and leaders are checked and an environment conducive for positive changes is created.
Let us love Pakistan and protect it from all enemies whether internal or external.

Sir Jee all of this is fine... but there is no way on earth and the heavens that the current establishment both civilian and military will deliver justice to this nation... so we can pray till Qiyamat it is not going to change anything... Hard times give rise to emotions and emotions without thinking can be very dangerous and self harming... What we need is to take the time to check out a full plan of economics and political reform (mind you outside the box... if you try to sort out the system by remaining inside the system, you ll stay stuck)... We are fast running out of options... The reason why our enemies are becoming so strong is because we are showing our countrymen that we have no conscience left inside us... If you really want people to come together and cover your back, then you need to start with some justice at home... How about grabbing Musharaf and hanging him till death for the crime of NRO/ allowing America bases inside Pakistan??... putting an end to drone strikes?? getting rid of all these corrupt political parties and politicians??... showing secularism and secularists for what they actually are??... a big bad and epic failure in context of our country... Unless you have a radically different approach to do things from now on, well no one is happy in the Pakistan of today, except maybe Ghaddari/Gillani... and I dont see it changing otherwise...

All of you will be called upon to give sacrifices... be ready is all I can say...

 

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

From here, I can see that Pakistanis abroad have no interests in well-being of Pakistan or its people. They are more worried about 'pride'.

If you had so much interests and future of Pakistan in your minds, you would never push Pakistan into anti-India mode. Its a big shame that you guys are like those Indian americans who keep whining about non-action of Indian Government after 26/11 terror attack but they shut their mouth when someone asks, "when you are coming back to India and work here for home company?".

Seriously, its time for you non-resident Pakistanis to stop this sillyness of forwarding foreign agendas of creating tensions in region. The same advice which I give to Indian american fools.

for once please keep india out of this. Where did india come in this?? You have nuts head. .

 

[desioptimist]

Contradictions emerge in accounts of Pakistan raid
​

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Fog of war?